The importance of post workout meals considering we all lift weights

[blood_drinker]

Everyone take a look around the recent diets people post. Practically 90% have no post workout meal. Not having a preworkout is bearable, but no post workout?
This was my biggest mistake while dieting. Most of the muscle repair is supposedly right after your workout, and at night while you sleep (there are theories coutnering the sleep one though). I thought if I just ate some carbs and protein Id be fine. WRONG !! rice and tuna dont cut it. Everyone, for cutting, you can go for 1g per kilo of bodyweight of SIMPLE carbs for your post workout meal.

SIMPLE carbs for pw. meals include:

- Fructose, drink it , dont eat it. (eg 500ml grape juice)
- Honey (non processed = more micronutrients)
- Dextrose
Note: Of these three choices, Nathan and Belial have pointed out that fructose is actually the worst of these three. Very little will actually refill your muscle glycogen, however, if you have nothing more to resort to, definetely go for grape juice. But if you can make the extra effort to eat honey or dextrose, do so - it will make a difference.

Along with those carbs, add a fast absorbing protein such as whey. NOT slow absorbing like casein. Eggwhites work here too (although I hate eating immediately after working out). I have heard of some people drinking the eggwhites. I believe that will not work. In the anabolic board I there was a study on this, saying how the eggwhite MUST be cooked in order to be efficient as a protein source. In any case, Whey is the best choice. Do not use protein blends like Triple Threat 3/60 here. Triple Threat 3/60 is a protein blend (Whey, egg, and milk isolate) that is better used as an MRP. You want Whey and Whey alone. Since you are going to be using Whey everyday, you would be better off buying a 5lbs jug such as those from Optimum Nutrition.

There was also an interesting debate over at the training board about honey postworkout, I still wonder why it was never posted in this board.
From now on , I will be quoting Vageta over at the training board, knowledgeable bro and posted some great postworkout info.
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Originally posted by Vageta
The reason it is said that post workout carbs cannot be stored as fat is because the body will preferentially store glycogen before it begins to convert to fat stores. Thus after a workout when you've burned a significant amount of muscle glycogen, all of the carbs you ingest post workout will first fill these stores before doing anything else. This is why you are supposed to eat within an hour after your workout while the "window" is still open. Along with refilling glycogen the large insulin spike will shuttle amino acids into the muscles. This phenomenon is why the carbup works on CKD diets without adding fat. You can actually eat more than maintenance calories during this period as they will be stored within the muscle for later use.

The reason honey is supposed to be good is that it extends this blood sugar spike for a longer time which means you'll be shuttling amino acids for twice as long. Most sugars, however high on the GI list they are, will raise blood sugar levels very quickly but only for a very short time and then it plummets downwards. This is the typical post carb lethargy some people experience. Complex carbs don't boost blood sugar levels as high, though it is sustained for a longer period of time so you never get that energy crash. Honey seems to be able to perform both. It spikes blood sugar and it keeps it there for 2 hours. A perfect scenario for a post workout meal.

I think 2 tbsp is plenty to experience the boost and then you can have whatever carbs you want with it whether it be oatmeal, corn flakes, potatoes, etc..

For those worried about fat gain; don't. I am dieting now and I am losing fat as fast as usual while still enjoying this post workout spike. Again if you're worried about it just use less honey. For those that can't put on muscle, take 5 tbsp and go for it.

As a whole, be sure not to overlook the importance of this meal. It has brought me awesome results, as I used to neglect its importance myself. You can even use advanced tips like Vageta´s. But in any case, be sure to give it some consideration.

Good luck in your dieting endeavors.

Also, if you have any good postworkout info, post it here. Let s make this THE post workout resource on EF.

 

[The mann]

very good post blood drinker.

 

[elijah]

Good idea, but

Depends on the diet, doing just lo cals I agree completely. But during a keto diet I tend to stay away from the carbs all together. I do drink a protien shake and stay away from fat, so it'll get where it needs to. But if your on a non aas helped diet your chances of gaining muscle are very low.

 

[jennifer BFL chick]

I have read up on this topic for some time, and I eat my largest carb meal after my workout----I do want to gain muscle while losing fat, so I also like to have my carbs lower at night.

Anyhow, after my workouts---cardio OR weight training, I have around 90 carbs, mostly oatmeal and a piece of fruit, and around 60 grams of protein, 50 from whey, 10 from the oatmeal

This has been working great for me, I gain strength so much easier, and burn more carbs in the morning, and eat less at night

Just thought I would share what I do

 

[blood_drinker]

This is considering you are not on a CKD - that should be pretty obvious. Again, you can get same results from a diet like this- so if you cant give up your carbs, no sweat, 0 carbs is not the only way to go.

 

[SCHNiKEN]

Through a few years of trial and error i have also found out that postworkout is the most imporant meal of the day . Currently on the diet ive been using for the past three months ive eaten no carbs all day from morning till my workout around 7 pm. Then after my workout I drink a myoplex shake and a bunch of carbs to try and spike my insulin so that my muscles will receive the protien better. I find that this works very good for recovery and in the beggining when i first started doing this my strength would go up every week on all my lifts almost like i was on a cycle. Now it has sort of leveled off but i still feel that I gain alot more strength and mass using the theory of post workout nutrition. After my post workout meal, about an hour and a half later i eat another 40 grams of protien and about 60-90 grams of carbs to try and prolong the insulins effect. I know nothing of science and nutrition except what ive read online and tried for myself and got results with. So far ive never made better gains then with keeping this diet. Ive also lost many inches off my waist and I am almost to the point where i am happy. For those of you who dont eat a good balanced post workout meal.. i would suggest trying it for at least 2 weeks and i gaurentee you will see the results and stick with it. I also feel that (my opinion and experience only) by not eating carbs all day and then eating them after my workout that the insulin sensitivity in my body is much higher and cause even more of a boost then just eating normal during the day and then having a post workout meal.. again this is only my opinion. Good post blood.. and to everyone else you should really give this a try and incorporate it into your diet.. whichever type you choose.

 

[blood_drinker]

Jen, did you just write you eat a post workout after cardio? Why is this? I personally eat 1hr after cardio, as most of the cals burned come AFTER not DURING the cardio, and filling up on carbs right after cardio does not make sense to me. In the morning I do have to refill my glycogen stores, but this is 1hr later.
I eat a banana, a ww bread, and 8 eggwhites for breakfast.

In any case, at what rate do you lose fat and gain muscle at the same time? I am no longer able to do this...my goals are not so easily achieved anymore

 

[elijah]

I agree with you blood, was just stating

A good ratio for post work out nutrition is
.4 grams carbs / lb body weight
.1 gram of malto dex, or other high Gi
.2 gram slow sugar/medium gi car b
.1 gram low gi carb
.2 grams protein / lb body weight
Just good ole' whey pleeze sir

Bout an hour later, or two if dieting, eat a normal meal

 

[jennifer BFL chick]

I always wait 1 hour after all my workouts before I eat. I'm really targeting fat loss, so yes, I want to get that post workout fat burn from all my workouts.

 

[sixtythirtyten]

In this book I have it says that insulin is anabolic and glucagon is catabolic. For those of you that don't know, carbs= insulin, fat and protein = glucagon. I also read a study that showed that when you ingest whey protein alone it raises cortisol levels a lot. That is why you need a balance. Does this mean that ingesting only whey protein after lifting is counterproductive? I'm sure it is probably better than eating nothing at all, but I really think you need carbs after workout.

 

[cozmokramer]

For those of you that are on a LOW CARB diet I recommend EAS's low carb ready to drink protein shake.

It tastes great for a change and its got 20grams protein and just 2 carbs... both fiber....

 

[WarriorPL]

I always ate before and after work out, but never knew how important Whey was, i never bothered purchasing it because i just thought it was the same as 3/60 protein and what not. I will definately purchase a tub.

Thanks for the great post blood!


~WizKid

 

[slowmo214]

Solid food is useless after a work out...it will take hours to digest and you need the nutrients right away. Also, preworkout meals are not necessary. Some might even say it's better to be 3-5 HOURS WITHOUT EATING. Trust me, you won't feel weak after you begin
lifting.
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The best way to recovery, hands down, is:
-Immediately post workout:
HYDROLYZED WHEY, the most expensve kind. Consume NO CARBS at this time, only the whey.

-30 min after workout:
Maltodextrine ONLY.

-60 min after workout:
Whey (ion exchange isolate, not hydrolyzed) with fruit, such as 2 bananas. You can also add a little bit of maltodextrin to the whey, if you feel the need.
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[cozmokramer]

slowmo....

thats a very good point... its much better to take in
a liquid meal instead of a solid meal after working out.

This will allow for maximum absorption in the quickest
time...

 

[latinhire]

WOW! Excellent post gentlemen,

So on a low carb, fat loss diet, post workout drink, do you reccomend a quick carb up...like in a Pure Pro recovery drink..35g carb 35g, protein.... or do you suggest just whey protein shake, 35g low carbs, an EAS Myoplex Low Carb Drink, Casseine and Whey Mix 35g.

 

[blood_drinker]

slowmo, I definetely disagree with you. While the post did say drink liquid meals, you MUST consume carbs, to spike the insulin for the longest time possible and give your musclse all they need to recover (whey is best here, as it is fastest absorbing). Then 1hr later, eat a whole foods meal. But you absolutely MUST get carbs.
The whole point of the post was liquid meals, like grape juice, honey, with whey.

Hope I clarified

 

[Early Riser]

Actually, since I have reached my goal of less than 8% body fat, this is my typical meal schedule:

4:45 am get up, eat about 200 cals (50 g carbs) of high GI carbs; e.g., sugar cookies, rice krispy treats, oreos, etc.

When I was in full "lose fat" mode, I would not have these early morning carbs, and would do 1 hr cardio and not eat anything till an hour after finishing. But now that I've reached my weight goal, I find the morning carbs really wake me up and make me energetic...I eat them and then wait 1/2 hour before starting my workout.


5:15 - 6:15 am Workout time; Mon & Thurs. - weight training using HIT method; Tues, Wed., Fri, Sat - 1 hr running; Sun - 15+mph bike ride (no machine), also, extra 15 min. of biking on sunday.

6:15 - 6:45am Shower, get ready for work.

7 am: 400 cal shake: 50 g protein, 1 tblsp olive oil, 1 tblsp flax oil, 1/2 cup OJ (13 g carb), 1/2 cup whole milk

9:30 am 300 cal huge NYC whole oat bagel (about 6" diameter).

12pm Lunch, 1-1/2 chicken breast, small salad, broccoli, 1 hard boiled egg;

2 pm about 250-300 cals of unsalted peanuts


5:30 pm protein bar, 280 cals, 34 g of protein (Pure Protein bar)


8:30 dinner, usually grilled tuna, swordfish, or salmon, eaten with a salad. Other nights grilled steak, chicken or burger.


I stick to it pretty regular, and even have an orea or two after dinner at night.

On Sat, I have some high GI meals, starting with french toast with eggs, bacon and sausage.


For the past 4 weeks I've maintained weight, but seem to still be losing body fat and/or builiding muscles - every week I see some other muscle appear that I never knew I had.

Anyway, this is what works for me....would like to maybe add upper body muscle - but slowly, since I'm at 167, 5'11, and I'm 36 years old.

My 2 cents.

 

[Belial]

Good post.

Quick caveat: i know you mentioned liquid fructose. That's better than solid, since the fiber in fruits will slow down digestion. however, fructose itself is a very POOR post-workout carb, since the majority of it will convert to LIVER glycogen. Very little of it actually makes it to your muscles. While this means that it can exert a good anti-catabolic effect (Keeping liver glycogen fully stocked is a good thing, as is the low blood sugar effect of fructose), it might actually be COUNTERPRODUCTIVE post-workout, since it will halt fat burning, but it won't refill muscle glycogen. Thus, you get the worst of both worlds.

 

[blood_drinker]

Belial: Youre right, Nathan corrected me already on that topic, and I stand corrected. It´s not as bad as it seems though, SOME will get to muscle glycogen, yet it is not in optimal amounts like honey would. Obviously it does halt lypolysis because of the insulin spike - but that is not much to worry about. It´s weird though, I´ve read Flex for the past few months and I´ve seen them recommending it various times.
I guess it´s because FLex is full of ghost writers, eh.

Ill edit my post above

 

[68GT350]

Blood Drinker, you must be reading my friggin mind cuz i was just gonna post this question. Thanks for the info and the pre-emptive strike!!!

 

[blood_drinker]

Glad to be of help bro.
good luck

 

[The mann]

ture,that's why i take in a protein shake after a workout....al good posts!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jeep310]

honey and whey?

what about putting the honey right into a protien (whey) drink? Would that be enough cards, or just stick with n'large by prolab?

 

[blood_drinker]

I have a website where I find nutritional infos for foods, yet I cant seem to find honey as i dont know where its listed. See, if we adhere to the liquids food theory post workout(which we should) this means we should NOT eat honey with a damn potato post workout. To reach 80g of carbs for a 180lbs bodybuilder, you would have to take in quite a bit of honey, which would probably blow you right out of your daily cal intake for fat loss.
Someone, post info on honey plz so we can analyze this.
If it does happen to be as high as I suspect, then you could go for 4 tbsp of honey, added to a dextrose and whey shake. That seems perfect.

What are your thoughts guys?


Im editng the post, I found it
Honey has 248 cals per 4tbsp, or 62 cals per tbsp.
Each tbsp has 16 g carbs. 4 tbsp gives out around 64g carbs, yet for a larger bodybuilder it starts to get somewhat complicated to solely get your post workout carbs from honey. I think my suggestion above is rather reasonable. Again, what do you think?

 

[blood_drinker]

Enough people have viewed this post and it has served its purpose. Im unsticking it ....

 

[blood_drinker]

as was said, use fructose as a last resort. dextrose and honey come first. Vagetas post is also slightly flawed, dont use whole foods. Use liquid meals.

Dextrose+whey, perhaps some honey if you can.
Im still waiting for some feedback on my theory though.....

 

[tiqx]

Honey!

Nutritional Info for Honey (c/o FitDay.com):

1 cup:
Calories: 1030.6 kcal
Total Fat: 0 g
Cholesterol: 0 mg
Sodium: 13.56 mg
Potassium: 176.28 mg
Total Carbohydrate: 279.34 g
Protein: 1.02 g

1 tbsp:
Calories: 63.84 kcal
Total Fat: 0 g
Cholesterol: 0 mg
Sodium: 0.84 mg
Potassium: 10.92 mg
Total Carbohydrate: 17.3 g
Protein: 0.063 g

---------------------------------------------------------------------

This might not be of much help, though, since it's really difficult to get anywhere near one tbsp of honey ... it sticks to all sides of the spoon, and you can't exactly get a level surface. Just eyeball it ...

 

[MR. BMJ]

The problem with honey is that the compositions will vary from brand to brand. For the most part, honey is mainly fructose and glucose, but again, this will vary between brands. For the most part though, FRUCTOSE is usually the major sugar in honey at around 38%. Glucose is usually around 30-31%. By law, sucrose can not be higher than 8% or else it will be considered adulteration. In my opinion, honey would be a bad choice for a post-workout meal. Honey is absorbed slowly because of the fructose, dextrins, and formic acid. The rate at which honey is absorbed (GI) will also lower the GI of the other quicker digesting carbs like dextrose/glucose, which will be counterproductive (as a postworkout meal).

Now, on a hypocaloric diet, some fructose is okay because liver glycogen will be lowered, and less will be converted into fat (more can be stored before spillover). On a hypercaloric diet, more fructose will convert to fat due to the liver naturally being more glycogenated. A better time for taking Fructose would be as a preworkout meal because more will be used and less will be stored as fat. AND, during your last meal to take advantage of its slow digestion rate while you are asleep.

MR. BMJ

 

[blood_drinker]

How about the nonindustrial honey? Is it any different in those categories, considering it has more micronutrients? Preworkout , I always have some fructose -bulking or cutting, and it works.

Mr. BMJ, so is your suggestion plain dextrose+whey?

 

[EROS]

Just bumping as this a good topic while researching my next diet/meal plan.

Thanks blood_drinker

 

[MS]

Oh I must have missed this post first time around. Thanks for the bump. It's certainly a controversial topic, but I agree with MR BMJ that if you wish to get maximal MUSCLE glycogen refilling then fructose is less than optimal. The lower, sustained blood glucose rise seen with honey is due to the fructose component filling up liver glycogen and then anything leftover after that will eventually diffuse to the muscles. And as he also said, the honey will slow absorption of the other nutrients. The whole point of spiking insulin post workout is to, ummm spike it. Honey does not cause as big a spike, and does not preferentially refill muscles. However if you are worried about insulin spikes then honey is ok.

I am also curious if blood drinker has any references that show that the majority of calories burned from cardio are burned an hour after cardio. I haven't heard that one before. In my mind the best reason to wait to eat post cardio is because you can continue to burn fat preferentially once liver glycogen has been depleted and insulin levels are low. Since moderate cardio is not too catabolic this is a nice window of relatively high fat burning (as opposed to high calorie burning). Either way, I always wait to eat.

 

[blood_drinker]

At hand no. But I have seen studies showing how after rseistance and endurance exercises metabolism is elevated for hours after - thus it would make sense to eat an hour later. That is where the theory comes from .Again, the endless debate about morning cardio.
Theoretically your fat stores should be tapped into for energy since you just came from an overnight fast and you just performed some endurance exercise, thus you are glycogen depleted and your fat stores should be tapped into for energy. Yes, that is in fact the main reason.