the difference between bodybuilders and powerlifters

[jeremys]

Oh come on. You're telling me every single 6'0" ectomorph in the world can be 260 lbs at a low bodyfat without drugs? Because there are mesomorphs who can do that.

the people with the best genetics won't make it to their potential witout hard work

the people with the worst genetics can and do make it past what everybody things their 'limit' is because they bust their ass. we've seen it happen many times.

and i never said anything about not using drugs. that's a different part of the discussion

i like to think that there are no limits. the people that have this mentality make it farther than everybody else, and also farther than what their percieved 'limit' is

fuck limits

 

[louden_swain]

bodybuilders - aesthetics, shape, and size
powerlifters - strength and increasing numbers

There's the difference!

 

[casualbb]

i like to think that there are no limits

That may help you stay motivated, but there certainly are limits. People who are 225lbs+, ripped, and natural are NOT a dime a dozen.

The heaviest of the old-school bodybuilders was a ripped 225, back before drugs were used. That's the biggest it got! Is it because we train a lot better? Hell no. Most of the routines the pros are on now are complete crap, high volume and they bought into the intensity myth. They just do copious amounts of drugs, to which not enough credit is given.

 

[jeremys]

bodybuilders - aesthetics, shape, and size
powerlifters - strength and increasing numbers

There's the difference!

yes, that's the obvious difference. i was talking about appearance

 

[sk*]

Most of the routines the pros are on now are complete crap, high volume and they bought into the intensity myth. They just do copious amounts of drugs, to which not enough credit is given.

Bro, i'd have to disagree that their routines are crap. You forget these guys have trained for a long time and have found something that works for them.

Doing high volume while on the amounts of gear they are on is more than understandable. If you do take AAS in the future you will see how much they indead aid in your recovery.

I also believe isolation movements become very important when you are at the stage of ronnie coleman's body development.

JMHO.

-sk

 

[c3bodybuilding]

You bring up very true points Sk, very true indeed. When on a high dose of test for example, you can feel ready to work the same bodypart within a day! Also the part about isolation becomes all the more true as well. You simply cant ignore minor things like the complete developement of the rear, and side delts, when at a top level.

Of course to build up enough mass to be at such a level, it's best to just focus on the compounds, and food. But like Sk said, someone who is a top level national bb, or pro, HAS to throw in 'weak' point training, and isolation work.

I also feel most pro's know how to train their bodies. You have some who are lazy, and never live up to their full potential (Flex, and Paul D. come to mind), then you have the hard workers. Ronnie, Arnold, Dorian, Mentzer. All different ways of training, but each method worked for them perfectly. Would I have told Dorian, or Arnold that they could have trained better? Would I have said "Hey Arnold, way too many sets for your biceps pal!" or "Hey, Dorian, why don't you train in a more traditional HIT way, instead of a 5 or 6 day a week split." HELL NO! Not that they would have listened!

For the rest of us however, it's best to learn what works best for you. This means reading up on programs that can help the average person pack on the lbs. Stuff by Hardgainer, DC, HST, Realgains, etc. One program might work better for you, and one may not work at all.

 

[casualbb]

Well it's the traditional argument of the ends justify the means. Now I'm gonna bring up another traditional argument used by HIT low volume-ites: I can push a ball across a field with my nose and it'll still get there, but I'd really rather carry it.

 

[sk*]

Well it's the traditional argument of the ends justify the means. Now I'm gonna bring up another traditional argument used by HIT low volume-ites: I can push a ball across a field with my nose and it'll still get there, but I'd really rather carry it.

That's a horrible analogy. Genetics and doing it for a long time aren't the only factors in making Ronnie Coleman the mr. olympia ...

You have to realize bro, when you get to the stages of competing in mr. olympia EVERY little detail matters. This means your genetics, training, diet, rest, drugs, stress level, etc have to be just perfect or else you will just fail. This guys would take every little advantage they can get to outdo their opponents. Do you really think they haven't heard of similar training methods like HST? Not only they have heard it but they have most likely tried it.

Like I said before, the amounts of drugs these guys take they can recover at levels so great that they would need to workout 3times a day to incorporate HST techniques. Do you see what I am saying? Frequency would need to be judged on an hourly basis ...

Sometimes training in higher volume becomes more efficient with the time they are given to train, because their recovery becomes godly.

These guys aren't idiots and they aren't newbies. They have taken many training courses, have had personal trainors, and have tried any methods they have thought of to find what works for them the best.

-sk

 

[casualbb]

You're underestimating the power of steroids to make up for a bad routine. Maybe they've heard of HST but I doubt they've tried it. Why not? As champions, they subscribe to the same argument you do: they must have been doing something right. Yes they did, and it came in a little bottle. The reason none of them tried it is because you can take steroids, go on a once/week ultra-volume split and still gain rapidly. They then think that they've found the fastest way to train (tm)! Sign on with muscletech and start cashing in.

I'd trust a pro for advice on diet, steroids, or pre-show preparation. But not training.

 

[endpoint]

HST isnt the be all and end all of training