Tell me about Aikido....

[Kwai-Chang Caine]

I honestly think that if you want a martial art with grappling then you would absolutely become a BJJ addict.

I don't know what it is your are looking for in a martial art, but if you are like me you aren't necessarily interested in the cultural, spiritual, and traditional aspects of martial arts. I and many other people simply want to learn how to fight and defend ourselves without all the quasi-religious baggage included. If you want a no nonsense martial art that is highly effective, fun, competitive, and an unreal workout then give BJJ a try.

 

[DanielBishop]

BJJ sounds pretty much what I'm after.

I just really like the idea of locks and submission holds. I think they're cool, as well as throws and stuff.

Basically we want something fun, which is also a good workout. BJJ is beginning to sound that way, especially if it has good practical applications.

Tell me, what is a good art for defense against weapons? Knives, bottles, bats and sticks etc?

 

[Kwai-Chang Caine]

DanielBishop,

Some people would say that knife, gun, and weapon disarms are important to know, but then there are also just as many people who believe that most disarming techniques will probably get you killed.

Personally, I think most disarming techniques are crap and will get you sliced, shot, and beat down. BJJ doesn't address much in terms of weapons defense, but it doesn't really need to as it teaches you to control your opponent at all times. If you can control your opponent you can POSSIBLY save yourself from getting sliced just as well or better than any flashy knife disarm.

The bottom line is this...

If your attacker has some skill with a blade or gun, you are going to get hurt no matter what you do. It's best to never put yourself in situations where you are easy prey for such attacks. Knowing your environment and keeping yourself out of overly dangerous situations is also a large part of being a martial artist.

 

[Thaibox]

Some people would say that knife, gun, and weapon disarms are important to know, but then there are also just as many people who believe that most disarming techniques will probably get you killed.

Personally, I think most disarming techniques are crap and will get you sliced, shot, and beat down.

Gotta disagree with you here my friend. I specialized in weapons disarms for quite some time.

I've been with my fiancee for a little over a year now. In that time, from what I've taught her, I can confidently say that if an average person(large male) pulled a gun or knife on her, she(at 5'4" 120 lbs) could take that weapon and shove it up their ass. I've gone through numerous variations of full speed attacks on her(along with 3 different size guys)using red knives and Air Soft pistols, and she has been able to control the weapon and move to incapacitate us with adequate quickness and ease. In later stages of her training she has learned and become accustomed to counters, to her defenses, and can quickly counter those. She makes me smile .

Guns are easy. You just have to understand that they are a linear threat and no more. They also provide an incredible amount of leverage to the defendant's advantage for use in a finite number of wrist, finger, and arm manipulations, breaks, etc. Also, guns almost always give the attacker a false "God complex," providing a strong false sense of security that is definately good for the defender. The shock of losing the object of their invulnerability is considerable for at least enough time to do a consider amount of damage to them. Knives of course are much more complex, and yes your chances of being cut are high, even on a well executed disarm. But, it would be a fair exchange, because you are sacrificing a couple small wounds in order to deliver fatal blows.

But, if you don't practice these disarms in very realistic, high-speed conditions with weapons that are near-real, and pose some sort of threat, you are right, and the practitioner will not learn, and will most likely lose against a weapon.

 

[DanielBishop]

Yeah, I'm well-aware that trying to be macho against a knife or gun is a really bad move. If someone pulled a gun on me and told me to take my pants off and dance around, hey I'd be doing it!! I guess it's just peace-of-mind that I COULD if the situation called for it, at least minimise the damage to myself if someone decided to attack me with a weapon.

 

[Kwai-Chang Caine]

Thaibox,

After your points I will partially recant what I said. Yes, if you are truly trying to simulate the situation by adding a real sense of danger to your drills via the use of real knifes, sticks, and firearms, then yes, you probably could develope some proficiency in disarming tactics.

The problem that often arises is that very few schools practice this skill enough to be effective and even more teach such shitty principles that they often put their students in even more danger. If I were wanting to learn effective disarming tactics I would seek police or military training versus commercial martial arts training. Call me crazy, but I get the feeling that they put far more emphasis on that skill set than the thousands of McDojo Tae Kwon Do and Aikido teachers do.

And although you may disagree, I believe there are some people who don't fall under the heading of being "average" with a knife. Knife fighting experts, ex-cons with shank experience, and those with some experience in weapon intensive martial arts aren't going to be quite as easy to defend against. It's because of this uncertainty that I often advise people to simply do whatever the attacker wants short of letting them take you somewhere, raping you, or actually attacking you. If he wants your wallet, give it up. Your shoes or jacket? Give them up! Your favorite necklace? GIVE IT UP!

I often trash weapons disarms because most people who teach them are quakes. With that being said, I would advise DanielBishop to find a school without worrying about learning weapons disarms. If he truly wants to become proficient at that skill set he should seek truly capable teachers who's living relies on knowing that skills rather than McDojo instructors who spend 5 to 10 minutes a month addressing "knife defense."

 

[Thaibox]

I don't actually think we're disagreeing here KCC, just miscommunicating a little. You are absolutely right that no "McDojo"(hehe) can offer adequate weapons defense. They will only serve to give a false sense of capability. Weapons disarming is an art within itself, and should be taught as such. Once a weapon is entered into the equation of combat, a whole new world is entered.

The place I learned the most was my vip-protection school which caters to all sects of high speed civilians and L.E.. Finding guys that have 'been there done that' is an absolute must if you want to learn. My Muay Thai instructor was a bodyguard for many years in Asia, and had much practical info to share as well. I have never, ever used any weapons disarms I have learned from traditional dojos, with the exception of some JJ stuff