Steroids Are Pointless! Is this somewhat Accurate?

[Frackal]

Good points Frackal, you said " its up to you whether you keep it or not", is this with continious gear use though? I doubt proper diet and training can guarantee permanent results. Talk to me.

I think this is going to be a very, very individual thing Havoc. For example, at my age, I naturally have higher levels of gh, test, higher insulin sensitivity, so of course with identical genetics, training techniques and gear usage I will keep more than a man 15 years older.

Though I do not have extensive experience with AAS, in my opinion, the key to keeping gains is to cycle using the "Turtle and the Hare" philosophy....slow and steady will win the race...what I mean by that is, say you take two people, of the same identical genetics, age, training techniques, etc.... One person does a moderate cycle, let's say simply 500mg of test per week, followed by oxandrolone in the proper fashion to bring HPTA back online, he uses proper clomid therapy, diet, training and supplement techniques post-cycle.... In all likelyhood, after losing a bit of water weight (probably not even that) he will keep upwards of 90% of his gains, because his body was able to adapt to the muscle he put on, seeing as it was not a ludicrous amount.

Now we have subject 2, who, like many on this board, decides to 'run the juice heavy' and does 1000mg test, 600mg eq, and 75mg fina ED...or Dbol or whatever...this person gains 30 lbs of mass, around 15 lbs of actual muscle, 10 lbs of water and 5 lbs of fat...(maybe not with fina but anyway)...this person goes out clubbing, maybe drinks a bit on cycle, doesn't train hard, eats moderately well but nothing special, and then goes off....cortisol levels spike, test is down, estrogen is up, he is using clomid in the proper fashion but there is just simply no way his body can maintain those kind of sudden gains naturally, so he loses water, and some muscle mass as well...his motivation is down, his HPTA axis is totally wacked, etc....

It really is like anything Havoc. If used in moderation, slowly, and intelligently, it can be a great tool in your arsenal...however, it should only be a tool, people who depend on it first and foremost for gains will certainly lose all when it is gone...

Slow and steady wins the race everytime bro...

 

[BEEFSTEAK67]

If you never used...blow it out your ass

Steroids do make you you blow up, and yes after you stop you lose size, but lets look at the size you lose. First of all when you are injecting AS your red blood cells increase and so does your blood volume (i.e. - that AWESOME AS pump) When you stop that goes away. So there goes some size. If you have used AS haphazardly than you have probably shut down your natural body's process of producing test, therefore when you get off you have no free floating test in your blood. That leads to, depending on your AS dosage, more size lose for up to 6 months.

Pro builders you talk of use mega doses, YOU, as never using, couldn't even concieve of using as much as they do in a month in YOUR WHOLE CYCLE!!!! Plus, you probably couldn't afford it.

Pros systems are all fucked up, they know it and thats why their so scared to come off. Especially since fags like you talk shit about them when their done competing.

So yes, you do lose size and if your a crazy bastard you lose a lot of size, but if you administer AS in resonsible doses with lay-offs and educated cycles you can gain a lot of quality muscle and keep it for life. Lets not forget about AS being the worlds #1 anti-catabolic.

So go Drink your HOT STUFF and your MEGA-MASS and talk about drugs that you'll never use in the gym, but don't come into the anabolic forum and say that AS is worth it, cause you're only fooling yourself.

 

[spentagn]

Beefsteak, you're out of line. Havoc has always been very respectful of people who choose to use AS. He has one of the most impressive physiques I've EVER seen. Leave it to someone with 5 posts to try to be the keyboard champ in a civilized discussion. Besides, havoc will hand you your ass in a flame fest.

 

[Kid Blast]

Re: If you never used...blow it out your ass

Especially since fags like you talk shit about them when their done competing ... So go Drink your HOT STUFF and your MEGA-MASS and talk about drugs that you'll never use in the gym, but don't come into the anabolic forum and say that AS is worth it, cause you're only fooling yourself.

Woah Beefy! Chill out man. Getting a little hot on this board. Sounds like a little roid rage to me.

Besides, it's "when they're done" not "their"

Just teasing you, man. It's all okay.

 

[Quadsweep]

until you quit cycling.. then you lose it all..

I disagree! While I am 20lbs heavier while on, I was off over a year and a half while trying to conceive a child (I did by the way) and I never went below 215# @ 5'7" and not over 8.5% BF. The first time I used I was only 190 @ 10% or so. So I am definatly bigger and stronger even after an extended layoff.

 

[justwannagetsum]

they are pointless? Thanks, I guess I will fluch mine down the toilet. phew!Good thing you told me.....

 

[Quadsweep]

I think this is going to be a very, very individual thing Havoc. For example, at my age, I naturally have higher levels of gh, test, higher insulin sensitivity, so of course with identical genetics, training techniques and gear usage I will keep more than a man 15 years older.

Though I do not have extensive experience with AAS, in my opinion, the key to keeping gains is to cycle using the "Turtle and the Hare" philosophy....slow and steady will win the race...what I mean by that is, say you take two people, of the same identical genetics, age, training techniques, etc.... One person does a moderate cycle, let's say simply 500mg of test per week, followed by oxandrolone in the proper fashion to bring HPTA back online, he uses proper clomid therapy, diet, training and supplement techniques post-cycle.... In all likelyhood, after losing a bit of water weight (probably not even that) he will keep upwards of 90% of his gains, because his body was able to adapt to the muscle he put on, seeing as it was not a ludicrous amount.

Now we have subject 2, who, like many on this board, decides to 'run the juice heavy' and does 1000mg test, 600mg eq, and 75mg fina ED...or Dbol or whatever...this person gains 30 lbs of mass, around 15 lbs of actual muscle, 10 lbs of water and 5 lbs of fat...(maybe not with fina but anyway)...this person goes out clubbing, maybe drinks a bit on cycle, doesn't train hard, eats moderately well but nothing special, and then goes off....cortisol levels spike, test is down, estrogen is up, he is using clomid in the proper fashion but there is just simply no way his body can maintain those kind of sudden gains naturally, so he loses water, and some muscle mass as well...his motivation is down, his HPTA axis is totally wacked, etc....

It really is like anything Havoc. If used in moderation, slowly, and intelligently, it can be a great tool in your arsenal...however, it should only be a tool, people who depend on it first and foremost for gains will certainly lose all when it is gone...


Slow and steady wins the race everytime bro...

This is fucking exactly what I have been saying since I came to this board!!! Great post!! People are so damn impatient. I have been doing this 22 years and I keep a lot of my gains when I am off. It is because I had a 12 year natural base and i did not do extreme doses. I still do not by national level competitor standards. Frackle I am sending you Karma!

 

[havoc]

Frackal and everyone else, great replies, thanks.

Beefsteak or Beefstick, which dustbuster from your knocked up 24/7, blue wigged mother's collection backfired and propelled your played out ass into the fray, you lazy eyed Forest Whitaker stunt double with a hickory cane lodged in your crap canal? I'm betting it was the one she uses to clear out the scabs in her level 4 sandpaper kooch, and you were there to gnaw the open wounds in her Mammoth Cave muff with your sharpened-on-dildo incisors, weren't ya Marty?
Times have changed, you fucked six-million ways from 1974 featured museum exhibit of the mentally inept, so don't roll up in here in your Delorian with a shitsmear racing stripe, talking about Especially since fags like you talk shit about them when their done competing. Bitch ass with a heart beat, I'm year round 245 at 8%, 25 years of age at the height of 5"10, all natural and just getting more dominant, looking like this all day and night you boner milking farm hand, you couldnt match this with a lifetime supply of Tokyo products you fuck hat with 1 oz of combustible grey matter.
Get with a fucking a program that doesn't include 12 steps and a squeeze tube, Old Man River; posters are coming to this thread to read some replies and inquire themselves, while rednecks are flocking to your anus like the Daytona motor speedway. You're a walking, talking, half-cocking subhuman cliche', and you couldn't beat me if I was fused to your fucking pelvis, in anything you dirt road traveling shit spore. I realize you're a card carrying member of the Assfucked Welders of America, but unless you've got a patent on the word "fused" and results of an AIDS test pending, staple your stretchmarked lips together before I blowtorch your dick dented tonsils to the back of your fucking mullet.
You feel raped bitch? Good

 

[Quadsweep]

Frackal and everyone else, great replies, thanks.

Beefsteak or Beefstick, which dustbuster from your knocked up 24/7, blue wigged mother's collection backfired and propelled your played out ass into the fray, you lazy eyed Forest Whitaker stunt double with a hickory cane lodged in your crap canal? I'm betting it was the one she uses to clear out the scabs in her level 4 sandpaper kooch, and you were there to gnaw the open wounds in her Mammoth Cave muff with your sharpened-on-dildo incisors, weren't ya Marty?
Times have changed, you fucked six-million ways from 1974 featured museum exhibit of the mentally inept, so don't roll up in here in your Delorian with a shitsmear racing stripe, talking about Especially since fags like you talk shit about them when their done competing. Bitch ass with a heart beat, I'm year round 245 at 8%, 25 years of age at the height of 5"10, all natural and just getting more dominant, looking like this all day and night you boner milking farm hand, you couldnt match this with a lifetime supply of Tokyo products you fuck hat with 1 oz of combustible grey matter.
Get with a fucking a program that doesn't include 12 steps and a squeeze tube, Old Man River; posters are coming to this thread to read some replies and inquire themselves, while rednecks are flocking to your anus like the Daytona motor speedway. You're a walking, talking, half-cocking subhuman cliche', and you couldn't beat me if I was fused to your fucking pelvis, in anything you dirt road traveling shit spore. I realize you're a card carrying member of the Assfucked Welders of America, but unless you've got a patent on the word "fused" and results of an AIDS test pending, staple your stretchmarked lips together before I blowtorch your dick dented tonsils to the back of your fucking mullet.
You feel raped bitch? Good

GODDAMN! Now that is the flame to end all flames!

 

[Stan O'Zolol]

The question isn't whether or not one should take steroids. The question is whether or not one can achieve the look they aspire to in the period of time they alot themselves. Once that question has been answered you will have made your decision.