Squat and Front Squat problem

[WannaBPowerful]

Why the hell am i more sore the next day after doing squats or front squats, in my ass (glutes) than my quads? Quads are sore, but ass is always MORE sore. I know soreness isnt a sign of growth, but i have to be doing more damage to my glutes then my quads if they hurt more.

 

[spatts]

Because you're doing them right.

Quads: "All show and no go."

I haven't trained my quads in 6 months. A strong squat is from the hams, glutes, hips, and lower back. None of the PLers I'm close to train quads, and they squat ALOT of weight. They're just not the primary movers.

 

[coolcolj]

If your glutes are sore when doing front squats, your doing something wrong

 

[spatts]

I humbly disagree. I specifically do front squats to build my hips and back for sumo deadlifting. They do hit quads more than the regular squats, but at 225 x 6 I never come away with sore quads...just sore glutes.

 

[Nico Cujo]

I compete in olympic lifting. So I do full back squats and front squats. My hams, glutes and quads always get sore.

 

[bignate73]

If your glutes are sore when doing front squats, your doing something wrong

not particularly. though there is alot of quad in the front squat, chances are his weak link is the glutes. if he has been training traditionally (bodybuilding) then leg press is a staple for most bb'ers. if he is quad dominant and implements a squatting routine....the weak link will be evident by soreness.

also some people doing "front squats will use a cossack style which allows them to bend forward more, vs a clean grip which forces you to stay up. bending forward meaning more, more glute activation.

another possibility is stance width.

 

[spatts]

These moves are still compound, the more you hit the better. I just feel front squats LEAST in my quads, and not at all in a full squat.

 

[coolcolj]

You guys are probably leaning too far forward.

I last time I felt my glutes get sore was when i did full jump squats and snatch grip deadlifts.

 

[bignate73]

You guys are probably leaning too far forward.

hmmmm...why didnt i just say that instead of my long dissertation?

 

[coolcolj]

Yeap - if you upper body is bolt urpight then your quads should get hammered. If you can't may I suggest some Weightlifting shoes

 

[skaman607]

so if you lean forward you will hit more glutes, and if you stant upright it will hit the quads, right?

 

[coolcolj]

Yeap, and keep your stance more on the narrower side

 

[spatts]

I disagree again (always gotta be the pain in the ass).

In PLing, when a person leans too far forward, we chalk that up to stronger quads and a posterior chain too weak to hold the person upright. My front squats are ATF, totally upright, and knees over the ankles.

 

[bignate73]

(always gotta be the pain in the ass).

subtle pun....

 

[teen1216]

Could it be the width of the front squat? Wider = more glutes?

 

[zackdarnell]

I agree that squatting hammers your glutes more than anything. I hit a PR 425x3 yesterday and my ass is sore as hell. Quads didnt feel much at all yesterday and feel fine today.

 

[Sully810]

I stay pretty well upright on front and back squats(probably as much as I can without losing balance..),yet I still feel more stress in my glutes than my quads.Just figure my glutes are getting stressed more,and/or my quads are stronger and more used to handling stress than my glutes.Ive also always felt that strong quads arent the key top a big squat,like most people think.Just my opinion though

 

[spatts]

.Ive also always felt that strong quads arent the key top a big squat,like most people think.Just my opinion though

Nope...not just your opnion. Westside Barbell's powerlifters (and many others) know you're right.

 

[Sully810]

I was thinking earlier that maybe feet width(as I think someone mentioned above)is what would make a difference-wider less quads,closer more quads...so I tryed a wide foot placement and close,and everything felt stressed the same,but my quads seemed stressed a bit more once I got close to parallel with a closer stance.Maybe it has something to do with form???I dunno..whichever way Im going to stick with what works for me,which would mean sticking with what spatts has been saying

 

[skaman607]

wait a minute I'm confused, what kind of form do you use to hit your quads, and what kind of form do you use to hit your glutes/hams etc?

 

[louden_swain]

When I perform squats, I receive the same degree of soreness in the quads, buttocks, hips, and hamstrings. Overall, I believe the squats is an excellent lower body developer.

 

[louden_swain]

One more thing. . .what is your stance? If your buttocks are extra sore, this is a good indicator that you are squatting nice and deep. If you want to focus more on the quads, use a closer stance with the toes spaced 10 apart. Also, you may want to consider performing leg presses to pre-exhaust the quads then perform heavy squats.

 

[coolcolj]

I disagree again (always gotta be the pain in the ass).

In PLing, when a person leans too far forward, we chalk that up to stronger quads and a posterior chain too weak to hold the person upright. My front squats are ATF, totally upright, and knees over the ankles.

That's the problem - your knees should go way forward to hit the quads. Its all about lever angles.

The more knee bend the more quad stimulation. The more hip bend/angle the more posterior chain involment.

 

[Sully810]

Ive always read and have been told that you shouldnt let your knees go beyond the instep of your foot ,as that puts alot of stress on the knees.Ive found that to be true for me

 

[spatts]

That's the problem - your knees should go way forward to hit the quads. Its all about lever angles.

The more knee bend the more quad stimulation. The more hip bend/angle the more posterior chain involment.

How do you figure?

Even if that did make any sense to me at all, I don't know why I'd risk joint stability just to stimulate my quads. High price to pay for minimal returns. I guess I have the luxury of knowing what works for me, thank goodness...I need these knees.

 

[louden_swain]

When squatting, the knees should remain as stable as possible. They should not move forward. The majority of the work should be completed by the hips and quads.

 

[bignate73]

having tried box squats today, i can attest to how much my glutes and hams are involved. im not sore yet, but i have a feeling i will be tired tomorrow.

 

[coolcolj]

My knees and every other person who does an Olympic back squat and front squats gets their knees way over the toes. My and their knees are fine.

Human body is not that weak. Just have to condition it.

I just can't see how one can do a front squat with a totally upright torso without your knees going forward. The bar needs to be over the centre of gravity which is where your feet are. That means your knees have to be in front of the COG.

Jumping and landing from a jump puts way more pressure on the knees than any squat, doesn't seem to hurt too many kids.
Just try and jump without your knees going forward

 

[spatts]

The end-all-be-all in OL (IMHO) with his knees just over his toes, fairly upright, and ATF.

 

[coolcolj]

Just remeber he is wearing heel elevated weightlifting shoes

Without em, overhead squatting is so much harder!

 

[spatts]

I have squatted in lifting shoes, and understand the dynamic. He wears those because it is easier to stay stable in a safer position with them on. If he didn't wear them, it would be difficult to go so low without the knees extending way beyond his feet....so they are worn TO PREVENT THIS. If extending the knees way over the toes, to reach depth and increase stability, is the proper way for an OLer to execute this move, then why wear the shoes?

 

[coolcolj]

They're solid for one. I never used to wear them - just got some recently. My knees still go over my toes. This is more a function of limb length and balance - everyone is different.

In fact elevating the heel puts more stress on the quads and knees, because your more urpight. Without heels elevated you have to take a wider stance and lean more forward which mean you'll need more flexibility in the shoulders

here I am squatting Oly style in normal shoes

Knees well forward, but I have to use a wider stance to stay upright.

Plus you can definitely move the point of stress around the muscle groups by how you rise from the squat. For me trying to actively keep your body upright and kick your way up will definitely use plenty of quad.
If I get up by just thinking of pushing the bar back up the stress is more evenly spread.

The glutes and hamstrings do kick in when you break parallel regardless anyway. But if you squat hips back style - which I used to, they don't even have to break parallel for them to be heavily activated.

 

[spatts]

I think we're leaving out the element of recruitment. I make a deliberate attempt to raise and lower with my hamstrings. That probably makes a difference.

I don't think NOT feeling it in your quads = doing it wrong, and I also find it unlikely that WannaBe is doing OL squats (she didn't specify).

 

[WannaBPowerful]

WOW, iv never created a thread this big lol. I started this, and realize now i didnt include enough info about me. I have very strong hams and glutes. Im a bodybuilder, so i dont really care about strength what so ever, or squattin heavy to b macho. I wanna do whatever it takes to catch my quads up to the rest of my legs. They KILLED me in my last shows. From what im reading, elevating my heels puts more stress on the quads? Someone told me to try to keep the pressure on my heals instead of my toes. If what your saying is true, and traditional squats are more hip, ham, n glutes, im thinkin about eliminating them altogeather. I might just stick with front squats, leg presses, and hacks for compound movements. Do all weight lifting shoes elevate the heels? If so, i think they would be a good investmet for me. Where can i acquire a pair?

Also, what types of movements tend to carve seperation in the quads?

 

[spatts]

Im a bodybuilder, so i dont really care about strength what so ever, or squattin heavy to b macho.

I don't even know where to start with that. It's about the most self defeating training philosophy I've read.

I'll keep my giant quads and my macho squat numbers, thanks.

 

[WannaBPowerful]

I don't even know where to start with that. It's about the most self defeating training philosophy I've read.

I'll keep my giant quads and my macho squat numbers, thanks.

You know what i meant. Im not gonna squat light, to avoid a hard leg day. I train hard all the time, every time. Im just saying, im not a powerlifter, and im not gonna compromise my form or where the stress is being directed, just to lift heavy weight. I couldnt give a damn less about hip strength, as long as i know the muscles im tryin to hit will grow. Of course, i know you need some kinda hip strength when training compound movements though.

 

[coolcolj]

see my thread

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189800

Off course there are other brands - probably cheaper too. I have even seen a french site that custom makes shoes if you send in a tracing of your feet