Pre and Post workout. Lets talk nutrition, around 1hr before and after.

[Jenetic]

Law of Energy Conservation

Energy cannot be created or destroyed but may be transformed from one kind to another.

Laws of Thermodynamics

Work and heat are mutually convertible (may be converted from one form to another). The change in a system's internal energy is equal to the heat absorbed (calories in) from the environment minus work done (calories out) on the environment.

Laws of Thermodynamics Applied to the Human Energy System

Where E = energy expressed in calories, which is a measurement of heat.

1. If E in (food consumption) = E out (total bodywork), then weight remains stable.

2. If E in > E out, then weight is gained.

3. If E in < E out, then weight is lost.

Calories are the primary determining factor in regards to either gaining muscle or losing fat. The macronutrient profile is a way to fine tune nutrition in order to maximize performance and/or manipulate body composition.

Jenetic

 

[Ulter]

Like he said ^
It's not about carbs it's about calories in and calories burned.
Low carb diets kill some competitors trying to gain size. Others can gain and have to use low carb to cut. THAT'S BECAUSE EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.
We sponsor many competitors and over the years I have learned one thing when trying to suggest the best supps and diet. Nothing works for everyone.
I can tell you one thing though. There are A LOT more competitors skipping low carbs and using Glucorell R instead and going high, medium, low on their carb rotation.
But like Jenetic posted what matters most when you're trying to get rid of fat is that you eat less calories than you burn. A lot people get most of their calories from carbs and so when they cut them they lose weight not because it was the carbs but because that's where all their calories were coming from.

 

[Mavy]

Eh guys, good info. Im sure that most people are aware that going into a surplus or deficiet of cals is what detrmines the fact if you loose or gain fat. What I am trying to get at here is what exactly is the ideal environment to set for your muscles and body at, before and after workouts for optimum muscle growth and training stimuli.

Basically the best way to fuel, and the best way to feed your muscles, in the time spent "around" your workouts. I defiantely know that what and when I eat before my workouts has a HUGE impact on how effective my workouts are. Its the difference between falling asleep during them, and feeling like I can run through a brick wall. Same goes for recovery post workout, there are better things to eat during this window than others to maximize taking advatage of certain foods/supps.

 

[Dial_tone]

I am not anal retentive about either meal. I try to have a packet of plain oatmeal w/splenda about 4pm and I train about 6pm. I have tried Ulter's r-ALA/gatorade idea a few times and it does give me more energy in the gym and on the way home. I will probably continue that for a while. Gatorade everyday will add up in price but it's still cheaper than the Extran drink I like for PW.

 

[Mavy]

Why dont you make your own Gatorade DT? You can buy the powder, or even do the dextrose thing, its fairly close minus the electolytes, which I am sure you could add to a dextrose concoction as well.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Law of Energy Conservation

Energy cannot be created or destroyed but may be transformed from one kind to another.

Laws of Thermodynamics

Work and heat are mutually convertible (may be converted from one form to another). The change in a system's internal energy is equal to the heat absorbed (calories in) from the environment minus work done (calories out) on the environment.

Laws of Thermodynamics Applied to the Human Energy System

Where E = energy expressed in calories, which is a measurement of heat.

1. If E in (food consumption) = E out (total bodywork), then weight remains stable.

2. If E in > E out, then weight is gained.

3. If E in < E out, then weight is lost.

Calories are the primary determining factor in regards to either gaining muscle or losing fat. The macronutrient profile is a way to fine tune nutrition in order to maximize performance and/or manipulate body composition.

Jenetic

Lovely theory, but the human body is not a blast furnace, and in a low carb environment, one has to account for calories breathed, sweeted, peed and shit out in the form of unburned ketones in a given day.

Also the human body, and this varies from person to person, does not burn the same micronutrients at the same rate, or even absorb them at the same rate.

Ulter- Carbs are the issue, because when in deep ketosis, muscle glycogen is spared dispite the low insulin levels, and your adipose tissue is starving to death, so long as protien intake does not become so high as to create a large enough insulin response to shuttle glucose (created from the excess protien) into fat cells. If one is on a maintance diet, and only getting into mild ketosis, and they add 3000 calories a day in the form of olive-oil and flax oil, they will most likely lose bodyfat. Ketosis is catabolic to adipose tissue, and initially at least, anabolic to muscle tissue. The key to preventing it to becoming catabolic to muscle tissue is to not stay in ketosis for more than 7 or 8 days straight without carbloading. Once muscle glycogen is replenished, once one goes back into ketosis it becomes an anabolic state again, due to greatly elevated hgh and igf-1 levels due to the reduced carbohydrate intake and the protien sparing nature of ketones.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

As far as calories burned... the human body adapts to caloric intake. Within a 3 weeks the human body will fully adapt its thyroid output and metabolic functions to compensate for your new caloric intake.

So why do fat people get fat? Most of them are insulin insensitive and they eat too many carbs (especially high GI carbs), and a very rare few have a thyroid disfunction (maybe 10%).

 

[Mavy]

Lovely theory, but the human body is not a blast furnace, and in a low carb environment, one has to account for calories breathed, sweeted, peed and shit out in the form of unburned ketones in a given day.

Also the human body, and this varies from person to person, does not burn the same micronutrients at the same rate, or even absorb them at the same rate.

Ulter- Carbs are the issue, because when in deep ketosis, muscle glycogen is spared dispite the low insulin levels, and your adipose tissue is starving to death, so long as protien intake does not become so high as to create a large enough insulin response to shuttle glucose (created from the excess protien) into fat cells. If one is on a maintance diet, and only getting into mild ketosis, and they add 3000 calories a day in the form of olive-oil and flax oil, they will most likely lose bodyfat. Ketosis is catabolic to adipose tissue, and initially at least, anabolic to muscle tissue. The key to preventing it to becoming catabolic to muscle tissue is to not stay in ketosis for more than 7 or 8 days straight without carbloading. Once muscle glycogen is replenished, once one goes back into ketosis it becomes an anabolic state again, due to greatly elevated hgh and igf-1 levels due to the reduced carbohydrate intake and the protien sparing nature of ketones.

Nice post bbf. YOu are obviously a big fan of CKDs eh? I have never ran one correctly for a long perioud of time, but would like to try it sometime.

I do agree that its not always as simple a formula as eat above your maintenance to grow, and go below it to loose weight, even after accurately determining your and daily activity level, and maintenance cals. Some people cant shed fat even when almost starving themselves. I believe a lot of this is thyroid related though. And vice-versa as well, the thinest ectos can eat like a horse and not gain jack.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Nice post bbf. YOu are obviously a big fan of CKDs eh? I have never ran one correctly for a long perioud of time, but would like to try it sometime.

I do agree that its not always as simple a formula as eat above your maintenance to grow, and go below it to loose weight, even after accurately determining your and daily activity level, and maintenance cals. Some people cant shed fat even when almost starving themselves. I believe a lot of this is thyroid related though. And vice-versa as well, the thinest ectos can eat like a horse and not gain jack.

Yes, I'm a huge fan of CKD's. I really and truely believe they are more anabolic and will yield a faster gain in muscle mass than just piging out, or most balanced high calorie bodybuilding diets, if they are done correctly. This 4000 calories a day on a CKD will not cut it for bulking though. The body simply burns through fat calories and expels too many of them without using them to gain muscle at an appropriate rate unless your caloric intake is very very high. I shoot for 7000 a day on keto days, and 10,000 cals on carb loading days when bulking on this type of diet.

 

[Jenetic]

Lovely theory, but the human body is not a blast furnace, and in a low carb environment, one has to account for calories breathed, sweeted, peed and shit out in the form of unburned ketones in a given day.

Also the human body, and this varies from person to person, does not burn the same micronutrients at the same rate, or even absorb them at the same rate.

Is not a "lovely theory" it's a scientific fact.

You will need to consume more calories in order to grow. The macronutrient profile is a way to fine tune nutrition in order to maximize performance and/or manipulate body composition. In addition, depending on the macronutrient profile selected, it may be a necessary to adjust the overall caloric intake to achieve the desired goal.

I haven't overlooked individual genetics and didn't feel that it's necessary to state the obvious.

I thought I was supporting your statement that it's not absolutely necessary to consume high ammounts of carbohydrates in order to gain muscle?

Where are you going with this?

Jenetic