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genezapharmateuticals
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puritysourcelabs
Research Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsResearch Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic

Pre and Post workout. Lets talk nutrition, around 1hr before and after.

Jenetic said:
Is not a "lovely theory" it's a scientific fact.

You will need to consume more calories in order to grow. The macronutrient profile is a way to fine tune nutrition in order to maximize performance and/or manipulate body composition. In addition, depending on the macronutrient profile selected, it may be a necessary to adjust the overall caloric intake to achieve the desired goal.

I haven't overlooked individual genetics and didn't feel that it's necessary to state the obvious.

I thought I was supporting your statement that it's not absolutely necessary to consume high ammounts of carbohydrates in order to gain muscle?

Where are you going with this?

Jenetic

Calories consumed verses calories expelled is a lovely theory, but invalid. The human body never absorbs 100% of the calories eaten. So change it to calories absorbed. However, I will give you credit for saying "calories out" which is not the same as burned. I just hate the concept when people say you took in 3000 calories. The entire concept of how many calories are in each food type is assuming the body is 100% efficent and absorbsion and utilization of food eaten. With one diet you might physically put 3000 calories down and only absorb 2200, on another diet it might be 2900 out of the 3000.

Any people tend to focus on carb calories entirely too much. They are worthless to a bodybuilder outside of muscle hydration and as a high intensity energy source. People who eat high fat diets do not burn a signifgant amount of glucose at rest, and weight training only burns a small amount, that can easily be replaced with a high protien intake, and by occasional carb loads (which are more for a supercompensation effect than anything). Training the body to burn fat yields better results, since fats are a higher quality sustained energy source, and fats ARE required to build new tissue, regulate hormone levels, etc. Furthermore, it is more difficult for excess fat calories (especially EFA's and n-9's) to become adipose tissue. Thus fat calories are more anabolic to muscle less and less fatening than carb calories.
 
BodyByFinaplix said:
Calories consumed verses calories expelled is a lovely theory, but invalid. The human body never absorbs 100% of the calories eaten. So change it to calories absorbed. However, I will give you credit for saying "calories out" which is not the same as burned. I just hate the concept when people say you took in 3000 calories. The entire concept of how many calories are in each food type is assuming the body is 100% efficent and absorbsion and utilization of food eaten. With one diet you might physically put 3000 calories down and only absorb 2200, on another diet it might be 2900 out of the 3000.

Any people tend to focus on carb calories entirely too much. They are worthless to a bodybuilder outside of muscle hydration and as a high intensity energy source. People who eat high fat diets do not burn a signifgant amount of glucose at rest, and weight training only burns a small amount, that can easily be replaced with a high protien intake, and by occasional carb loads (which are more for a supercompensation effect than anything). Training the body to burn fat yields better results, since fats are a higher quality sustained energy source, and fats ARE required to build new tissue, regulate hormone levels, etc. Furthermore, it is more difficult for excess fat calories (especially EFA's and n-9's) to become adipose tissue. Thus fat calories are more anabolic to muscle less and less fatening than carb calories.

It's been stated numerous times that every individual is different. I've clearly stated that I was supporting your methods. Why has this turned into a conversation in regards to fat loss? Let's stick to the subject.

I am fully aware of ketogenic diets and their variations. I have no problem with your lovely theory as they do work well during fat loss phases. Although it's possible, your lovely theory is far from optimal during hypertrophy phases in regards to supplying the necessary energy needed to sustain normal daily activities including training. It is far from optimal for anabolism. You need to review some basic factors in regards to cellular metabolism. Carbohydrates are essential in order for muscular anabolim to occur in an optimal manner and are essential in supplying energy.

A living cell is the site of enzyme catalyzed metabolic reactions that maintain life. Metabolic reactions are of two types. In anabolic reactions, larger molecules are constructed from smaller ones, a process requiring energy and in catabolic reactions, larger molecules are broken down, releasing energy.

Anabolism provides the substances needed for growth and repair. These reactions occur by dehydration synthesis, removing a molecule of water to join two smaller molecules. Polysaccharides, lipids, and proteins are constructed via dehydration synthesis. The bond between two amino acids is a peptide bond, two bound amino acids form a dipeptide, while many joined form a polypeptide.

Catabolism breaks apart larger molecules into their building blocks. These reactions occur by hydrolysis, wherein a molecule of water is inserted into a polymer and split into two smaller molecules. The reactions of metabolism are often reversible.

Enzymes control the rates of all the metabolic reactions of the cell. Enzymes are complex proteins that function to lower the activation energy of a reaction so it may proceed more rapidly. They work in small quantities and are recycled by the cell. Each enzyme is specific, acting on only one kind of substrate. Active sites on the enzyme combine with the substrate and a reaction occurs. The speed of enzymatic reactions depends on the number of enzyme and substrate molecules available. Factors that alter enzymes
include but are not limited to denaturization by heat, pH extremes, chemicals, electricity and radiation.

Energy is the capacity to do work. Common forms of energy include heat, light, and sound, and electrical, mechanical and chemical energy. Release of chemical energy in the cell often occurs through the oxidation of glucose.
Burning glucose requires energy to begin the process. The end products of these reactions are heat as well as stored energy. The first part of cellular respiration is the splitting of 6-C glucose that occurs through a series enzyme catalyzed steps. The result is two 3-C molecules of pyruvate. Glycolysis occurs in the cytosol and does not require oxygen (is anaerobic). Energy from ATP is used to start the process but there is a net gain of energy as a result.
Oxygen is needed for aerobic respiration, which occurs within the mitochondria. There is a much greater gain of ATP molecules from aerobic respiration. The final products of glucose oxidation are carbon dioxide, water, and energy. Up to 38 molecules of ATP are produced for each molecule of glucose oxidized. ATP molecules contain three phosphates in a chain. Energy is stored in the last phosphate bond. Energy is stored while converting ADP to ATP when energy is released, ATP becomes ADP, ready to be regenerated into ATP.

The enzymes controlling either an anabolic or catabolic sequence of reactions must act in a specific order. A sequence of enzyme controlled reactions is called a metabolic pathway. The average diet consists largely of carbohydrates, which are used to supply energy. The first phase of cellular respiration occurs in the cytosol and is anaerobic. Each molecule of glucose is split into two molecules of pyruvic acid. In the second phase of carbohydrate breakdown, pyruvic acid is oxidized to an acetyl group, combines with coenzyme A, and is carried into the mitochondrion. Acetyl coenzyme A enters the citric acid cycle, changing it into intermediate products, and releasing energy to be stored as ATP. Excess glucose may be stored as glycogen or fat but this process is rare since it readily utilized. Furthermore, it's less relavent when total calories and a blanced macronutrient profile have been incoporated based against total caloric expenditure.

Lipid and protien pathways are far from optimal. Most dietary fats are triglycerides that can be used as an energy source only if broken down into glycerol and fatty acids. Beta oxidation decomposes fatty acids into segments (ketones) that are converted into acetyl coenzyme A that can then enter the citric acid cycle. The glycerol portion can also enter pathways leading to the citric acid cycle, or they can be used to synthesize glucose. Fatty acids can also combine to form fat molecules that are stored in fat tissue through liponeogenesis. Proteins provide a wide variety of functions for the cell, and can also be used as energy sources. To be used for energy, the nitrogen containing groups must first be stripped from the amino acids (deamination). The deaminated portions of the amino acids can be decomposed to carbon dioxide and water, and enter the citric acid cycle at various sites to yield energy. Excess protein in the diet can enter anabolic pathways and can also be converted to fat through liponeogenis. Liponeogenesis is common in diets that consist of a high overall caloric intake with a macronutrient profile primarily consisting of lipids and protiens as the conversion and utilization process is inefficient.

Jenetic
 
Last edited:
Calories consumed verses calories expelled is a lovely theory, but invalid. The human body never absorbs 100% of the calories eaten. So change it to calories absorbed. However, I will give you credit for saying "calories out" which is not the same as burned.

You're arguing semantics. The idea of a calorie deficit is still the same whether you call calories burned "calories out" or anything else.
You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about CKD, you write about it all the time. So you must know a lot about it like who's using it with success. You say that CKD is better suited to body builders. I am just curious which of the men standing on stage at the O this year got there by using CKD?
 
Eh ulter,

while I have you here, can you tell me where you use r-ALA "around" your workouts? Is it necessesary to take this with postwork shake? I was under the impression that this was actually one of the times when it was actually not needed with simple carbs?

Mavy
 
The only time I don't take the Glucorell-R is with my post workout shake - you don't need it. I take it with every other meal containing carbs.
 
Mavy said:
Eh ulter,

while I have you here, can you tell me where you use r-ALA "around" your workouts? Is it necessesary to take this with postwork shake? I was under the impression that this was actually one of the times when it was actually not needed with simple carbs?

Mavy

I take 3 upon rising with EnerG and ISO AGB in grape fruit juice. Wait 3 hours and do cardio.
None for lunch because the carbs are usually under 30gr and I still have the morning dose in me.
I take 3 caps before I train. Then I do my training with Gatorade. Then I have my ISO AGB. Then I take 2 more caps 3-4 hours later with dinner.
By the end of the day I am the healthiest person in my neighborhood.

Note: I have just gone up to 3 from 2. Getting old ya know.
 
You take 3 caps before the gatorade? that must be a big bottle.
 
ulter said:
You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about CKD, you write about it all the time. So you must know a lot about it like who's using it with success. You say that CKD is better suited to body builders. I am just curious which of the men standing on stage at the O this year got there by using CKD?

My argument of semantics is valid, because your calories absorbed might be much higher than another on a different diet with a similar caloric intake.

As far as the CKD for pro bodybuilders, I can assure you that using a pro bodybuilders diet and only using 500 mg of steroids a week will not work. When you take individuals who are on 5+ grams of test a week, large doses of hgh, and ifg-1 the body's chemistry is very different and many of the anabolic effects of the ckd are greatly diminished. Also the love affair of many pro's with insulin makes using a CKD impossible for bulking. Are far as deiting.... many pro's each junk food pre-contest. They have the genetics to be naturally lean, take a ton of gear (steroids ARE catabolic to adipose tissue), hgh and ifg-1 and stack it with high doses of t3 and clen. They can eat whatever they desire and still get ripped.
 
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