Natural Bodybuilders: Skip LaCour Says: Quit your bitching

[Arioch]

Oh, and while I am at it, have you ever coached a woman with CAH?

I did, once, briefly. She only lasted two years. Because despite the fact that she thought her fellow athletes would appreciate her abilities, she would not receive the ridicule she did during high school for her rather masculine appearance. Unfortunately, this was not the case.

Desiring to prove herself to others (for some reason) she had a drug biopsy performed, yet this was not enough, as everyone still accused her of finding some way around every sort of test, despite the fact that she was penniless. During her brief career, she was submitted to the humiliation of gender testing. Twice. After a couple of years of this shit, she just quit, because she got tired of being called a liar, a cheater, and a criminal (this was just after the Anabolic Steroid Control Act went into effect). So, unfortunately, she lost her scholarship, and the best female shot-putter I have ever trained, who had the potential to be truly world class, simple quit.

She got tired of the shit she received from people like you, who insist that she could not gain muscle without drugs.

Yes, this is an extreme example, but I bet it is one of the many examples you have never encountered.

 

[aurelius]

How to respond once again. Hmm. Bullshit. Once again using my wife as an example, she increased her lbm by more than 20%.

It´s a little dubious to hold your wife up as the example of what a woman can supposedly achieve and then flatly refuse to post a pic.

Once again, bullshit. No one can maintain it, but I have seen a few, and yes, this number is very small (less than 1%) of the women I have coached maintain an incredibly low bodyfat level without the use of drugs, and they could have achieved the fitness competitor look if they wished to sacrfice performance, which they did not.

If you mean they could have achieved the muscle mass to be a fitness competitor you´re wrong. I believe the body fat was low. Look at marathon runners. They can go without having a period for long stretches of time due to low body fat.

I have been training for more than 30 years, and coaching for twenty,

What have you been coaching and where? If you´re saying you dont´train your athletes with the use of drugs they aren´t winning much. But they must be winning to be a coach for so long at any competitive level. Please explain.

Oh, and while I am at it, have you ever coached a woman with CAH?

From what I understand about this extremely rare disorder, the female can have(in some versions of the disorder) abnormally high levels of anabolic hormones at or near the level of a male, no? If this is so, OF COURSE SHE GOT BIGGER MUSCLES! She had tons more anabolic hormones in her system, effectively mimicing the effect of steroids. This is not the type of woman I am talking about and you know it.

She got tired of the shit she received from people like you, who insist that she could not gain muscle without drugs.

To entertain your self admitted "extreme example" I´ll modify my statement to say that a woman must have elevated levels of anabolic hormones to achieve anything like a fitness competitor and that most women cannot rely on a glandular disorder.

 

[Arioch]

It´s a little dubious to hold your wife up as the example of what a woman can supposedly achieve and then flatly refuse to post a pic.

Ok, I will not use her as an example, even though a couple of other people here are familiar with her accomplishements.

If you mean they could have achieved the muscle mass to be a fitness competitor you´re wrong. I believe the body fat was low. Look at marathon runners. They can go without having a period for long stretches of time due to low body fat.

Um, no, I am not. Women field athletes (the ones who throw large chunks of iron) tend to gain quite a bit of muscle mass. Along with the fact that the women who are naturally better suited for this tend to gravitate toward it. To say nothing of the motivation "You better get stronger or when you get cut your scholarship is gone" can provide, along with free food.

From what I understand about this extremely rare disorder, the female can have(in some versions of the disorder) abnormally high levels of anabolic hormones at or near the level of a male, no? If this is so, OF COURSE SHE GOT BIGGER MUSCLES! She had tons more anabolic hormones in her system, effectively mimicing the effect of steroids. This is not the type of woman I am talking about and you know it.

You keep say never and impossible. Not me. I am saying that it is very hard, and more than 99% of all women will never do it. But any chance is better than no chance.

What have you been coaching and where? If you´re saying you dont´train your athletes with the use of drugs they aren´t winning much. But they must be winning to be a coach for so long at any competitive level. Please explain.

I never said none of them used, and I specifically stated:

Many female throwing athletes will gain rather large amounts of muscle during their collegiate years. Many are clean up to a point, and even at that point the progress they have made is nothing short of amazing.

See the words "Up to a point," and then the words that follow?

To entertain your self admitted "extreme example" I´ll modify my statement to say that a woman must have elevated levels of anabolic hormones to achieve anything like a fitness competitor and that most women cannot rely on a glandular disorder.

Fitness women are not that muscular compared to female strength athletes. Have seen a few standing next to each other. I submit that it is much harder to achieve the level of definition, but still possible, although rare.

 

[aurelius]

Fitness women are not that muscular compared to female strength athletes. Have seen a few standing next to each other. I submit that it is much harder to achieve the level of definition, but still possible, although rare.

You must have seen a few fitness athletes then. They might look smaller because they are so much leaner (for a contest) than many strength athletes.(who aren´t necessarily fatties) Compared to many women here in Spain where thin is in, my girlfriend looks like a linebacker. But when she stands next to to women at my gym who compete nationally she looks more like a sub saharan refugee. I look small next to them and I´m 195 at 5´11. These women have thighs and buttocks like a horse. I was amazed. I thought they were IFBB bber´s at first.

To say nothing of the motivation "You better get stronger or when you get cut your scholarship is gone" can provide, along with free food.

You can be motivated all you want, you can´t beat your physiology. And when they DO realize that to compete and keep their scholarship they MUST use steroids like the rest, well...

You keep say never and impossible. Not me. I am saying that it is very hard, and more than 99% of all women will never do it. But any chance is better than no chance.

Sure, because those that can have the elevated anabolic hormones either through a gland problem or introducing it into their body.

We have quite a few people watching this thread, Arioch. Some 1200 views.

 

[Arioch]

You must have seen a few fitness athletes then. They might look smaller because they are so much leaner (for a contest) than many strength athletes.(who aren´t necessarily fatties)

A few, yes. In fact, some of the women on the women's board were suprised at how small some of the fitness women were when they met them. Once again, they have not gain a ton of muscle, if ladies who have never used AAS are bigger than them.

You can be motivated all you want, you can´t beat your physiology.

History is filled with people who have beaten odds, despite attitudes like yours. People with less than perfect genetics have surpassed numerous drug users through hard work and intelligent training. You have no idea what the limits of drug free performance are. I have no idea what the limits are. No one else does either, as they are continually expanding.

Sure, because those that can have the elevated anabolic hormones either through a gland problem or introducing it into their body.

Incorrect. Despite your endless assertions to the contrary, numerous female athletes in the field of track, weightlifting, powerlifting, etc. have added significant amounts of muscle naturally, including some who post here.

 

[abc 1]

first post, joined the board because of this thread, had to give my opinion.

aurelius:
at 23 years old i wonder what your basis is for saying no one can make extreme gains naturally. i am neither a clean freak or a pro anabolic person but with over 14 years of experience in training (naturally besides 4 cycles of aas mixed in), you are very wrong. your assumption is based on zero science and what seems like very little experience. show something besides your opinion about your theory.

earlier on you were arguing with some strong man guy that his work out partners were lying about being natural because they lift extreme weight. why? where did that guy go? where are you coming up with this? is it because you couldn't make gains naturally? or you stalled out on doing the same routines over and over?

try sticking to a very strict diet and using periodized training for 4 or 5 years. it works. nothing you say can disprove what thousands have done.

give me proof that aas are the only route to growth and pro athletes of any caliber can only perform with them. i know more than a few first round draft picks who are all natural, despite your "opinion". please do not come back with the same argument you gave that other guy, that he doesn't know if his friends juice, saying so means nothing, blah, blah, blah. have a theory and back it up.

if all your going to do is state your opinion and then argue that everyone who is strong is a closet aas user, you have no leg to stand on. the russians proved periodization worked over 50 years ago, you can't disprove it because in spain chicks have big legs and they juice, doesn't work that way.

 

[aurelius]

History is filled with people who have beaten odds, despite attitudes like yours. People with less than perfect genetics have surpassed numerous drug users through hard work and intelligent training. You have no idea what the limits of drug free performance are. I have no idea what the limits are. No one else does either, as they are continually expanding.

This is absurd. I can´t discuss this with you any longer. Why do men have so much more muscle naturally without any training compared to women? It´s the level of anabolic hormones! It gives you more muscle just by having them in your body without the training! (this is true for using steroids too) No idea what the limits are? HA HA HA HA!! I´ve already drawn enough analogies for you.


Where do you coach, by the way? Who have you coached?

 

[aurelius]

if all your going to do is state your opinion and then argue that everyone who is strong is a closet aas user, you have no leg to stand on. the russians proved periodization worked over 50 years ago, you can't disprove it because in spain chicks have big legs and they juice, doesn't work that way.

Man. you are truly ignorant. Why do you people insist on chanting the same muscle mantras over and over again like you´re a walking Muscle Mag? THE RUSSIANS!!! They pioneered the use of steroids in their olympic athletes! Unbelievable!

have a theory and back it up.

see my previous post. Now go do your homework.

 

[abc 1]

far from ignorant friend. the problem here is you have nothing to say but, "i justify my anabolic gains like they are natural gains because natural gains are a myth and everybody whose great at anything is on aas, etc".

i'm no muscle mag, but i have read many books by hatfield, bompa, poliquin, pavel, etc. and attended many seminars about training methodology on and off aas and the fact that natural gains are harder to make seems to be your argument that everyone is on aas. sounds like a lazy man's opinion to me.

by the way, the russians weren't the pioneers of anabolics either, do alittle more research, they've been around alot longer. along with showing aas were effective their training methods are also tops in the world, still, not because of aas, despite aas.

and my point, which you are too thick headed to see, is that through proper training you can grow. aas help speed things up and push potential further, true, but stop cycling for a year or more and your body resets itself to very near it's natural set point. but at the ripe old age of 23 i'm sure you know everything.

try and avoid calling me ignorant next time. it proves you have no idea what your talking about via your sarcastic remarks. you want to talk theory, bring it, you want to insult people, save that for your fucking linebacker girlfriend asshole.

 

[aurelius]

far from ignorant friend. the problem here is you have nothing to say but, "i justify my anabolic gains like they are natural gains because natural gains are a myth and everybody whose great at anything is on aas, etc".

What? I never said any of that. Nice try though.

i'm no muscle mag, but i have read many books by hatfield, bompa, poliquin, pavel, etc. and attended many seminars about training methodology on and off aas and the fact that natural gains are harder to make seems to be your argument that everyone is on aas. sounds like a lazy man's opinion to me.

That natural gains are harder was not the topic. Please read more carefully. I´m familiar with Bompa´s theories. He was a trainer in the Eastern bloc and well versed in the use of steroids. Hatfield! Come on, man. He used tons of juice too. This is why I called you ignorant.

by the way, the russians weren't the pioneers of anabolics either, do alittle more research, they've been around alot longer. along with showing aas were effective their training methods are also tops in the world, still, not because of aas, despite aas.

I said the russians pioneered AAS in their olympic athletes, not their creation.

but at the ripe old age of 23 i'm sure you know everything.

I certainly don´t. I know next to nothing about most things. Thing is, I can admit it when I don´t know. You said to look at the russians as if it were periodization techniques winning their gold medals. Please!

try and avoid calling me ignorant next time. it proves you have no idea what your talking about via your sarcastic remarks. you want to talk theory, bring it, you want to insult people, save that for your fucking linebacker girlfriend asshole.

HA HA HA!!! You say I don´t know anything because you think I "insulted" you and then you insult me! It looks inconsistant.

p.s. my girlfriend is hardly big. just looks bigger next to malnourished Spanish girls!