Natural Bodybuilders: Skip LaCour Says: Quit your bitching

[Arioch]

Originally posted by Aurelius:

This is all I´m saying. I could care less who does what with what drug.

Then why do you keep entering these type of discussions?

And didn't we go through the women can't gain muscle thing already? What is it with you? Just because in your very limited experience, women cannot make gains is not exactly a decent statistical sample by which to judge 51% of humanity. I have coached over 2000 female athletes, in some degree or another, and I am continually suprised, impressed, and proven wrong about the limits of not human performance, but what women can acheive despite the assertions of so many people with defeatist attitudes.

Of course, one can make not only more progress, but faster progress without drugs. But this this does not mean that people can not make gains without them.

I will post some studies on Friday.

 

[aurelius]

Then why do you keep entering these type of discussions?

I don´t post to finger wag at users. But there are people here who have said some ridiculous things and then turn around and give out advice about this and that routine and it´s just ridiculous.

Of course, one can make not only more progress, but faster progress without drugs. But this this does not mean that people can not make gains without them.

I´m not saying you can´t get "results." I´m talking strictly muscle size. I´ve put about 65 pounds on my bench in just two three week power cycles in recent months. Very pleasing.

but what women can acheive despite the assertions of so many people with defeatist attitudes.

Again, talking muscle size. But this "defeatist attitude" stuff is nonsense. It´s like saying someone has a defeatist attitude because they can´t manage to hold their breath for two hours.

 

[Arioch]

But there are people here who have said some ridiculous things and then turn around and give out advice about this and that routine and it´s just ridiculous.

Rather like someone asserting time after time based on limited experience that women can not gain much muscle without drugs, yes?

I´m not saying you can´t get "results." I´m talking strictly muscle size. I´ve put about 65 pounds on my bench in just two three week power cycles in recent months. Very pleasing.

So was I. There are numerous atheletes who have made significant gains in muscularity despite your assertions to the contrary.

Again, talking muscle size. But this "defeatist attitude" stuff is nonsense. It´s like saying someone has a defeatist attitude because they can´t manage to hold their breath for two hours.

The defeatist attitude I was referring to was yours.

 

[aurelius]

Rather like someone asserting time after time based on limited experience that women can not gain much muscle without drugs, yes?

no.

So was I. There are numerous atheletes who have made significant gains in muscularity despite your assertions to the contrary.

I´m sure they have...

The defeatist attitude I was referring to was yours.

I know that. My analogy still stands.

 

[Arioch]

no.

Why not?

I´m sure they have...

Then why do you keep saying otherwise?

And when I say defeatist attitude, I am still trying to be polite. You seem to chant "Women cannot gain muscle" like it is some sort of mantra. Why? Do women with muscle frighten you? I do not understand this.

 

[aurelius]

And when I say defeatist attitude, I am still trying to be polite. You seem to chant "Women cannot gain muscle" like it is some sort of mantra. Why? Do women with muscle frighten you? I do not understand this.

Got me wrong. Women CAN gain muscle, just not much. You don´t understand this? What, my posts or why women can´t get anywhere near a fitness competitor level of muscularity and leanness? If it´s the first one, don´t know what else to say. If it´s the second, it´s a question of anabolic hormones.

Bottom line, Arioch, a couple of months ago someone posted three pics of different women asking if any were natural. They were ALL obviously not natural and anyone with any experience in the iron game knew this. But there were a lot of people who responded firmly that at least one or two could be. Non sense. Then these same people go posting advice in the training board.

 

[Arioch]

Wow. Your opinion is based on what, exactly?

My wife gained over 20 pounds naturally, and she is a tiny woman. And no, I will not post pics of her.

I have seen many women gain quite a bit of muscle. This is the point. And I have seen women display amazing degrees of definition, without drugs.

The problem is that your experience is very limited, and you are asserting what everyone else is capable of based on this. That is idiotic.

I have been responible for the strength training of many female track and field athletes. Guess how lean they look? And guess what, most of them are clean when they make the majority of your gains.

No one has stated that an average woman can maintain the fitness competitor look year-round without assistance. But you keep stating that women cannot gain muscle. This is a crock of shit.

 

[The_Eviscerator]

Honestly, Skip La Cour looks natural to me. I have seen guys who have worked their ass off and achieved similar physiques without drugs. If you take a 24/7 approach to your training and dieting and lifestyle, you can look that good without drugs. Most people don't have discipline or desire to do it, so they call others who are bigger or leaner than them steroid users.

 

[aurelius]

No one has stated that an average woman can maintain the fitness competitor look year-round without assistance. But you keep stating that women cannot gain muscle. This is a crock of shit.

Please read my posts more carefully. I never said women can´t gain muscle, just not much. Somehow I think we´re not communicating exactly. Oh well. My girlfriend has gained some 10 pounds plus of muscle lifting. You say the "average woman." No. No woman can achieve the fitness competitor look without assistance.

The problem is that your experience is very limited, and you are asserting what everyone else is capable of based on this. That is idiotic.

No. I have only lived on this planet for 23 years but I have a pretty good idea that no one can achieve flight by flapping their arms wildly or hold their breath for 2 hours. By your logic, I have to shut up because I haven´t seen everybody so my experience is limited. Hey, there might be someone who can do these things and they just have "good genetics." HA HA!! I am speaking more specifically to the photos posted here with questions like "is this possible naturally?"

Wow. Your opinion is based on what, exactly?

As I stated before, I have been in a few gyms in a few places. I have not only my experience but those of my friends and people who work out around me. In Spain, working out isn´t all trendy like in the US, so people who spend serious time in gyms are just that, serious. The trainer at my gym in Elias Gonzales 6 time winner of Spanish bb open heavies. He has trained the Ms. Fitness Spanish champion in 99 (or 2000 I can´t remember). There a several women who compete in these competitions nationally and are trained by either Elias or a trainer at the sister gym. Both are steroid veterans. Also, there are two guys who are currently training for the Spanish qualifier for the world´s strongest man.(the first people I saw doing a box squat incidentally)

 

[Arioch]

Got me wrong. Women CAN gain muscle, just not much.

How to respond once again. Hmm. Bullshit. Once again using my wife as an example, she increased her lbm by more than 20%. That is certainly significant. Many female throwing athletes will gain rather large amounts of muscle during their collegiate years. Many are clean up to a point, and even at that point the progress they have made is nothing short of amazing.

When they are competing against athletes with similar genetics who use AAS, it is a different story, of course, but that is not the point.

No woman can achieve the fitness competitor look without assistance.

Once again, bullshit. No one can maintain it, but I have seen a few, and yes, this number is very small (less than 1%) of the women I have coached maintain an incredibly low bodyfat level without the use of drugs, and they could have achieved the fitness competitor look if they wished to sacrfice performance, which they did not.

No. I have only lived on this planet for 23 years but I have a pretty good idea that no one can achieve flight by flapping their arms wildly or hold their breath for 2 hours. By your logic, I have to shut up because I haven´t seen everybody so my experience is limited. Hey, there might be someone who can do these things and they just have "good genetics." HA HA!!

No, I am simply equating your very limited experience with a study where n=1. I never said that you must see everybody. I have been training for more than 30 years, and coaching for twenty, and I know I have not come close to seeing everyone. And furthermore, I do not know the limits of human performance, as they are constantly being tested. By people who believe that they can accomplish things, often despite the attitudes of people like you.