My [Least] favorite training myths.

[WalkingBeast]

B fold some things aren't black & white but some certainly are. Physiologically humans are fundamentally the same. Muscles don't work differently for different people.

Ok do you honestly think a guy who could squat 400+ lbs for 20 reps would have small legs if his "fiber type" was a certain configuration? Likewise would that same guy have had huge legs if he had merely done less reps with more weight?

Incline Presses are cut and dry. They are a good movement, but they aren't an "upper-chest solution." Anyone that says differently needs to learn some simple biomechanics. I know that *gasp* it came from a textbook, but just because some guy says his upper chest is big since he inclined his way up to a 350 lb press doesn't make it true. Would he have no upper chest if he worked to a 350-400 lb flat bench press? No way. I had a guy try to convince me that the reason his chest was large and full was due to using incline dumbells. I shrugged it off, noticing that anyone using 180 lb dumbells in any type of press isn't going to have a small chest. Just because a big strong guy says it doesn't make it so. "Correlation does not imply causation." Often people don't realize the important underlying factors of what they do, and mistakenly make incorrect assumptions.

Ill say this: The guy I train with flat benches 400lbs. His incline sucks in comparison (275x3). And his upper chest is almost completely flat, has a droopy look. My flat and incline are very close, and you can definately see a difference in my chest development.

 

[NWinters]

Debaser,,,,,Maybe you should listen to other people instead of "shrugging it off". You cant be stubborn forever. Sometimes one has to crack down on themselves and take advice for a change of pace.

 

[WalkingBeast]

Hmm why would musclemag companies want to spread around all that false shit?>>>>

To keep you buying the magazines. There's only so much that can be written about working out. They have to come up with more and more claims to keep people in an endless cycle.
----
As for the myths that has no just become a debate, I too have to go with real world over books. Debaser you remind me of Mike Mentzer in many ways. Mike was a great guy, and smart man, but he could never look at things from more than one way. I think you need to be more open to others ideas. It's great to learn the science behind it all, and try your best to apply it to yourself, but at the same time, you can't ignore 50 years of experience.

Besides, a lot of the current science is just starting to catch up with some of the things that many thought were bs or myths. Whole body workouts three times a week. People laughed at those and said they were for newbies. Now HST brought it back and it's all the rage. Reg Park was doing that in the 50's. HST also talks about Am Pm training. Didn't Arnold call that the double split? My point is, if some guy with 20, 10 or even 5 years of hard work and experience tells me something, I'll listen, and not just shrug it off because some book says it's wrong or a myth. Who knows, in 20 years, science might finally catch up and say it was right....

ps. Arnold NEVER ditched dips from his workout. He kept his pec routine the same from the time he came to America until the day he retired. The only thing he ever changed around 72 was supersetting back with chest. This is from his The Education of the Bodybuilder (in his own words) and many interviews I've read.

Keep in mind Debaser has only one year actual training experience

 

[WalkingBeast]

Okay, you obviously can't be reasoned with. I've presented both scientific, and real-world examples, and tried to show you that elementary biomechanics all state the same thing unequivocally. That's okay though, Musclemag is probably right.

For someone who asks for "scientific proof" all the time, you sure as hell don't act like any scientist.

Not with your "reasoning"

 

[NWinters]

Keep in mind Debaser has only one year actual training
experience

Seriousley Debaser, how and where do you get your info? And what training methods have you used since you have been working out. And if you tell me more than 2 methods im gonna be dissapointed cause it was you who said somthing about changing routines wont get you anywhere.

 

[guldukat]

Ill say this: The guy I train with flat benches 400lbs. His incline sucks in comparison (275x3). And his upper chest is almost completely flat, has a droopy look. My flat and incline are very close, and you can definately see a difference in my chest development.

Heh...that was like me when I did flat and incline BB I didn't have bench tits too bad, though *whew* That shit really starts to look gross after awhile...I don't know if you're familiar with him, but 2nd tier IFBB pro Art Atwood's got it BAD. Look at him from the front; his pecs are huge, but look like teardrops.

I think it's mostly a genetic thing, but it is interesting that your training partner has a weak upper chest AND incline (though 275x3's quite good taken alone).

Has he drilled inclines hard for long, I wonder? The fact that he does them and still has a weak upper chest could actually work against the idea that inclines = great upper chest developer.

I like incline presses, but I do see what Debaser's saying. Too often some guys do treat them as if they'll magically fix any pec training problems.

 

[delldell2]

What degree incline do you all recommend. I've started doing them at the lowest setting. It seems like maybe one setting higher would be okay, but any more and it's mostly anterior delts.

 

[NWinters]

mix it up....one week do a 45 degree press......and then a 25-30 degree press the other.

 

[WalkingBeast]

Heh...that was like me when I did flat and incline BB I didn't have bench tits too bad, though *whew* That shit really starts to look gross after awhile...I don't know if you're familiar with him, but 2nd tier IFBB pro Art Atwood's got it BAD. Look at him from the front; his pecs are huge, but look like teardrops.

I think it's mostly a genetic thing, but it is interesting that your training partner has a weak upper chest AND incline (though 275x3's quite good taken alone).

Has he drilled inclines hard for long, I wonder? The fact that he does them and still has a weak upper chest could actually work against the idea that inclines = great upper chest developer.

I like incline presses, but I do see what Debaser's saying. Too often some guys do treat them as if they'll magically fix any pec training problems.

I heard of Artwood, but havent even viewed a recent muscle mag in a while. The guy I train with hardly ever inclines. He will do maybe 2 sets after maybe 11 sets of flat benching. One of those sets is a warm-up with 135, and the other is usually 225x11. IMO hes almost getting nothing out of them. Just an afterthought really. 275x3 is bad IMO because he gets 315x17 on flat bench. His form is real sloppy though. Ass off the bench and bouncing. Its almost as if the incline is an equalizer..haha Feels good to destroy him on every other movement aside from flat bench. I have to wonder how strong hed be if he benched like me. It would definately cut his strength alot! hahaha ThanX Guld!

 

[Debaser]

Debaser,,,,,Maybe you should listen to other people instead of "shrugging it off". You cant be stubborn forever. Sometimes one has to crack down on themselves and take advice for a change of pace.

You're saying it as if there is one extreme or the other. As if I can only ignore everyone's advice, or accept everyone's ideas as gospel. No, I do what everyone should do but appears to be almost nonexistant on this board:

1. Think about the different variables LOGICALLY. Logic, lately seems to be seldomly employed.
2. If necessary, consider scientific, biomechanical, physiological, anatomical (etc.) grounds.
3. Reach a decision.

I'm not going to listen to a big guy in the gym merely because he's big. If what he says doesn't sound ripped off the latest muscle magazine (like incline chest press importance perhaps?), then I might take note. If he sounds like a bumbling fool, then I'm not going to waste my time with his advice.