Modern Drummer's HALL of FAME!

[perkele]

Modern Drummer's Hall of Fame:

Gene Krupa
Buddy Rich
John Bonham
Steve Gadd
Keith Moon
Neil Peart
Louie Bellson
Tony Williams
Billy Cobham
Joe Morello
Carl Palmer
Bill Bruford
Art Blakey
Jeff Porcaro
Max Roach
Larrie Londin
Elvin Jones
Vinnie Colauita
Terry Bozzio
Ringo Starr
Dave Weckl
Dennis Chambers
Steve Smith


A list where you'll find the all time greatest/best drummer! Right answer probably is Gadd, Cobham or Williams!!!!!!!!!

 

[Y_lifter]

....MISSED ONE BRO.....
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*

 

[supersizeme]

I always thought the drummer for Hansen was pretty ill.

 

[perkele]

....MISSED ONE BRO.....
*
*

"Modern Drummer" magazine missed one! Phil's a great drummer!

 

[smallmovesal]

i understand the reasoning, but if ringo were such a good drummer, paul mccartney wouldn't have had to overdub his own drumming over ringo in the later years... when their music was more complicated.

 

[Longhorn85]

Aw shucks. Sheila E. didn't make the list.

 

[perkele]

i understand the reasoning, but if ringo were such a good drummer, paul mccartney wouldn't have had to overdub his own drumming over ringo in the later years... when their music was more complicated.

Ringo wasn't that good but because of him millions of kids started to play drums.

 

[Charvelle]

Ringo was adequate, nothing the Beatles did was ever very complicated musically. Some of the shit they pioneered in the
studio with tape loops etc., was ahead of it's time. Anybody could've drummed for the Beatles.


Drummer HOF has to include:

Dave Lombardo (Slayer)
Raymond Herrera (Fear Factory)

 

[perkele]

Do you seriously think that Lombardo will be in HOF before all those jazz/fusion drummer legends? No way in hell.


Mike Portnoy, Danny Carey, Lars Ulrich from the metal side will also be there before him.

 

[Charvelle]

Lars Ulrich, a great drummer

 

[perkele]

Lars Ulrich, a great drummer

I never said he's great, only that he's chosen before Lombardo.

 

[Charvelle]

I would think they would fill an HOF based on talent, not record
sales. Lars is a decent drummer, but in his genre, does not stickout. He is popular because Metallica is/was popular.
Hell, Witchunter from Sodom is a much better drummer than Lars,
and nobody's ever heard of him.

 

[lift2grow(Chargeback Ban)]

How about abadon from VENOM!!!!

or Rat skates from OVERKILL~~~~~~~~~~

FEEL THE FIRE

 

[Charvelle]

I really liked Venom, as much as some of it was garbage, they
just seemed to have a way of pulling it off. I thought Mantas was
a very good guitar player & Cronos was a good, though sloppy
bass player (due to singing somewhat). I've never really sat down
and just listened to what Abaddon was doing. I still have Welcome To Hell, Black Metal, At War With Satan & Possessed, I'll have to throw them in and give them a listen. Favorite Venom
song though "Countess Bathory".

Rat Skates, didn't he only do 1 or 2 albums with them? I saw them
in '88 opening for Slayer/Motorhead, they raged pretty good, but
only a 15 minute set.

I always thought the dude from BoltThrower I think his name was
Andy Whale was pretty unique with what he was trying to do in a Death Metal band.

 

[perkele]

I would think they would fill an HOF based on talent, not record
sales. Lars is a decent drummer, but in his genre, does not stickout. He is popular because Metallica is/was popular.
Hell, Witchunter from Sodom is a much better drummer than Lars,
and nobody's ever heard of him.

If it was only about the talent then there would never be any metal or rock drummers! PERIOD! Only Neil Peart and Bill Bruford from heavier side of drumming.


When it comes to talent then jazz drummers are the ones who really do have it

 

[crimson coal]

One other hard rock drummer that is really up there and plays technically is Scott Rockenfield from queensryche. He has been doing alot of soundtrack music lately. I always thought him to play in the vain of a heavy Neil Peart. Of course I still put Neil (The Doctor) above him but Scott deserves some mention.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

If you guys have ever heard any quality death metal,you would know that those guys on the list are'nt all that,and I speak as a drummer of 13 years.Except for dennis chambers,and dave weckl,they all get crushed by deathmetal drummers,which sucks becaue thay hardly get any recognition for their talents.

 

[freak daddy]

Ringo Starr over John Densmore of The Doors. Give me a fuckin' break. Densmore added so much character and power to all the Doors songs. Listen to "The End" and tell me he should'nt be on that list. Densmore is one of the top 10 drummers EVER!

 

[perkele]

If you guys have ever heard any quality death metal,you would know that those guys on the list are'nt all that,and I speak as a drummer of 13 years.Except for dennis chambers,and dave weckl,they all get crushed by deathmetal drummers,which sucks becaue thay hardly get any recognition for their talents.

13 years of drumming and still so fucking stupid........... I guess your deathmetal band doesn't get the recognition it deserves?

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

13 years of drumming and still so fucking stupid........... I guess your deathmetal band doesn't get the recognition it deserves?


[/QUOT
are you a musician?Do you know what it takes to be a drummer in the slightest?NO,obviouslly not.If you had any skill,talent,or even just the ability to recognize talent,you would at least be able to give props to those drummers who dedicate their lives to perfecting the skill.I've had 13 years, count them 13 years of training on every type of percussion instument you could,excuse me could'nt name.I think with this amount of time,I would be able to spot talent when I see it.Just out of curiosity,what bands do you consider deathmetal?

 

[perkele]

13 years of drumming and still so fucking stupid........... I guess your deathmetal band doesn't get the recognition it deserves?


[/QUOT
are you a musician?Do you know what it takes to be a drummer in the slightest?NO,obviouslly not.If you had any skill,talent,or even just the ability to recognize talent,you would at least be able to give props to those drummers who dedicate their lives to perfecting the skill.I've had 13 years, count them 13 years of training on every type of percussion instument you could,excuse me could'nt name.I think with this amount of time,I would be able to spot talent when I see it.Just out of curiosity,what bands do you consider deathmetal?

I've played guitar 22 years and I've played in few jazz/fusion bands during that time so don't start with me. I'm not a drummer myself but I sure know which music style has the most skillful and the most creative players. 13 years is nothing and especially if you're only into heavy/speed/death metal type of music. I know your kind of people and what's their knowledge about music is.

If there really is good drummers in deathmetal (and I mean REALLY good drummers) then you'll find them here:

http://www.drummerworld.com

And if not then shut the fuck up!

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

damn for being so old you sure don't debate well,you are aloud to view your opinion without talking shit you fuck!!And your age does tell me alot about your views,your old,hence your stuck in your era which consisted mostlly of jazz,which in it's day was considered structured.If you look at my original post,you'll see that I do recognize dave weckle,and dennis chambers for their talent.Now I'll ask you again,which bands,or deathmetal drummers have you heard????You should answer wiselly before you make yourself look more like an ass than you already do.

 

[Charvelle]

Perkele, no disrespect to you bro, I'm sure you are a very learned
and excellent musician, however Sermon is correct, alot of the greatest musicians of this generation are in hardcore bands. The
best drummer I've ever heard period is Dave Lombardo, ex-Slayer,
not to mention Ray Herrera from Fear Factory, and yes, he is right
Pete Sandoval from Morbid Angel. For old school guys, don't forget bass player Jeff Bacerra (sp?) from Possessed who fronted(i.e.) played bass & sang for one of the most influential hardcore
bands in history, and he was a senior in high school when they wrapped up recording on Seven Churches.

Let me give my .02 on musicians, and I've been playing for 17 years myself, talented musicians are around in abundance. I know guys who can learn all of Metallica's songs note for note, and sound probably better than Hammett/Hetfield. The only difference in musical talent, that seperates the ones who make
it from the ones who are "bar stars" or who argue about it on an
internet chatboard, is the ability to write songs that people actually WANT to hear !!!! That is the ONLY thing that seperates the men from the boys. Perkele, you, I and Sermon could probably
start a band, and cover other peoples stuff kickass...however none of us would be hear talking about it, if we could write shit that people actually wanted to hear. That's what seperates 17 yr old Jeff Bacerra from ALL of the way more talented bass players and singers out there. He wrote, sang, and played bass on one
of the most influential hardcore albums in history, one that will be
listened to while we are dead and buried for 100 years, one that
hundreds of thousands of people have bought and listened to. Can we say that.....NO, so musically we can't hold any of these
guys jock straps.

To the original point, I do believe that Lombardo, Sandoval & Herrera could learn and play anything in the world they wanted to. I DON'T think that the reverse is true. Neal Pert, Dennis Chambers etc., wouldn't have the intensity it takes to drum Morbid Angel.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

To the original point, I do believe that Lombardo, Sandoval & Herrera could learn and play anything in the world they wanted to. I DON'T think that the reverse is true. Neal Pert, Dennis Chambers etc., wouldn't have the intensity it takes to drum Morbid Angel.





thats exactly what my next post was going to say.The fact that These "underground" musicians are speculated to have no talent is due to thier popularity it seems.These bands are not easy listening,and this reason alone will distance them from wealth and fame.Most people that hear metal,or even better deathmetal,have a hard time understanding whats going on,and this is because it's so intriquet,and chaotic.Just the fact that perkele stated that they are "unskillful",and "uncreative players",tells me that he is very closed minded,and unable to change with the times.Perkele enlighten yourself and look up some drummers that will blow you away,i.e.....sean rhienert (cynic)......dave culross......(suffocation,malevolent creation).........pete sandoval(morbid angel).......alex marquez(malevolent creation).These are but a few of the drummer that I feel you should at least be able to say "they have talent",they are not popular,but they are fucking drumming machines,with unfathomable creativity.

 

[Charvelle]

Sermon, have you seen Fear Factory live? Herrera was such a
fricking machine, he would just sit up there effortlessly, like he was kicked back having a beer @ the beach, and creating such a massive wall of sound it was just sick. Lombardo, Sandoval etc.,
you could always see the toll physically it was taking on them.
Herrera, looks like he could be smoking a pipe and reading the
Times. Granted F/F didn't play with the speed of Slayer or Morbid
Angel, but he does just as much, if not more double bass work.
He's a big strong guy though, looks like about 6+, 240 range.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

no I have'nt seen them live,if I had the chance I sure as hell would though.Yeah it's awsome when a drummer can sit back effortleslly and crush the kicks!!Sandovals good and all,but they don't call him pete "the tweak" for nothing

 

[perkele]

damn for being so old you sure don't debate well,you are aloud to view your opinion without talking shit you fuck!!And your age does tell me alot about your views,your old,hence your stuck in your era which consisted mostlly of jazz,which in it's day was considered structured.If you look at my original post,you'll see that I do recognize dave weckle,and dennis chambers for their talent.Now I'll ask you again,which bands,or deathmetal drummers have you heard????You should answer wiselly before you make yourself look more like an ass than you already do.

It's a joke that you ask which deathmetal drummers I've heard when you, the drummer, don't seem to have any idea what kind of drummers guys like Steve Gadd, Louie Bellson, Tony Williams, Billy Cobham, Elvin Jones, Vinnie Colauita are and what they've achieved. Fucking unbelievable.

There's been hundreds of times when I've debated with guys who do believe that Kurt Cobain is a better guitarist than Pat Metheny and nothing what I say will not change their opinion. Welcome to that club!!!

 

[perkele]

Originally posted by Charvelle

"Perkele, no disrespect to you bro, I'm sure you are a very learned and excellent musician, however Sermon is correct, alot of the greatest musicians of this generation are in hardcore bands."

I disagree. Do you think that jazz died in the 70's? No it didn't.

"The best drummer I've ever heard period is Dave Lombardo, ex-Slayer,not to mention Ray Herrera from Fear Factory, and yes, he is right Pete Sandoval from Morbid Angel."

Have you heard any jazz drummers, live? I guess you're not. I would understand if you and the a-hole guy would say that for example Dave Lombardo is the all-time greatest metal drummer. I wouldn't arque with that. That would probably be true. I must say that I'm not a fan of any kind of metal music and to be honest I really don't understand why someone is. Three weeks ago I did watch few minutes of Slayers live concert from TV and I started to laugh. There is absolutely nothing in that kind of music that I would like. Nothing! Feel free to tell me why you do like it.

"Let me give my .02 on musicians, and I've been playing for 17 years myself, talented musicians are around in abundance. I know guys who can learn all of Metallica's songs note for note, and sound probably better than Hammett/Hetfield."

I know too but I know also that those guys won't play any of Paco De Lucia's or Al Di Meola's music note for note. Ever.

".............That's what seperates 17 yr old Jeff Bacerra from ALL of the way more talented bass players and singers out there. He wrote, sang, and played bass on one of the most influential hardcore albums in history, one that will be listened to while we are dead and buried for 100 years, one that hundreds of thousands of people have bought and listened to. Can we say that.....NO, so musically we can't hold any of these guys jock straps."

If hundreds of thousands of people have bought and listened to the most influental hardcore music then do you think that no one will remember Steve Gadd's, Vinnie Colauita's, Jeff Porcaro's music in 2102? These theree guys have played on over 2000 albums in their career and in many different music styles. Over billions of albums sold. Most of them are classic albums and also most influental in history of music.

"To the original point, I do believe that Lombardo, Sandoval & Herrera could learn and play anything in the world they wanted to. I DON'T think that the reverse is true. Neal Peart, Dennis Chambers etc., wouldn't have the intensity it takes to drum Morbid Angel."

LOL! The drummer of Morbid Angel would also laugh for you comment. If "intensity" is what makes good drummer good then we're in right forum. Let's all workout so we'll have the intensity to play 1,5 hour. Who care's if the timing sucks. You guys are hopeless. LOL!

 

[perkele]

Herrera was such a fricking machine, he would just sit up there effortlessly, like he was kicked back having a beer @ the beach, and creating such a massive wall of sound it was just sick. Lombardo, Sandoval etc.,you could always see the toll physically it was taking on them. Herrera, looks like he could be smoking a pipe and reading the Times. Granted F/F didn't play with the speed of Slayer or Morbid Angel, but he does just as much, if not more double bass work. He's a big strong guy though, looks like about 6+, 240 range.

This kind of proves why 99% of Metal fans don't have any idea of music and/or playing.


If I think like you do then it'll go like this:

Maurice Green can sing, I guess cause he runs faster than Luciano Pavarotti then he must also be a better singer.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

"Perkele, no disrespect to you bro, I'm sure you are a very learned and excellent musician, however Sermon is correct, alot of the greatest musicians of this generation are in hardcore bands."

I disagree. Do you think that jazz died in the 70's? No it didn't.

"The best drummer I've ever heard period is Dave Lombardo, ex-Slayer,not to mention Ray Herrera from Fear Factory, and yes, he is right Pete Sandoval from Morbid Angel."

Have you heard any jazz drummers, live? I guess you're not. I would understand if you and the a-hole guy would say that for example Dave Lombardo is the all-time greatest metal drummer. I wouldn't arque with that. That would probably be true. I must say that I'm not a fan of any kind of metal music and to be honest I really don't understand why someone is. Three weeks ago I did watch few minutes of Slayers live concert from TV and I started to laugh. There is absolutely nothing in that kind of music that I would like. Nothing! Feel free to tell me why you do like it.

"Let me give my .02 on musicians, and I've been playing for 17 years myself, talented musicians are around in abundance. I know guys who can learn all of Metallica's songs note for note, and sound probably better than Hammett/Hetfield."

I know too but I know also that those guys won't play any of Paco De Lucia's or Al Di Meola's music note for note. Ever.

".............That's what seperates 17 yr old Jeff Bacerra from ALL of the way more talented bass players and singers out there. He wrote, sang, and played bass on one of the most influential hardcore albums in history, one that will be listened to while we are dead and buried for 100 years, one that hundreds of thousands of people have bought and listened to. Can we say that.....NO, so musically we can't hold any of these guys jock straps."

If hundreds of thousands of people have bought and listened to the most influental hardcore music then do you think that no one will remember Steve Gadd's, Vinnie Colauita's, Jeff Porcaro's music in 2102? These theree guys have played on over 2000 albums in their career and in many different music styles. Over billions of albums sold. Most of them are classic albums and also most influental in history of music.

"To the original point, I do believe that Lombardo, Sandoval & Herrera could learn and play anything in the world they wanted to. I DON'T think that the reverse is true. Neal Peart, Dennis Chambers etc., wouldn't have the intensity it takes to drum Morbid Angel."

LOL! The drummer of Morbid Angel would also laugh for you comment. If "intensity" is what makes good drummer good then we're in right forum. Let's all workout so we'll have the intensity to play 1,5 hour. Who care's if the timing sucks. You guys are hopeless. LOL!

sorry bro,I was trying to keep this subtle,but you sir are a fucking retard when it comes to drumming knowledge.You don't play drums, why the fuck would you tell me,a drummer who is good,and who is not.I don't go talking shit about the shitty guitarists that you listen to,do I no because I realize it's not my place to say.So when it comes to drums,leave it up to me ok dad!You need to step aside with your love for oldies,and let the new talent take the reighns!!!!the end>>>>>

 

[Charvelle]

This kind of proves why 99% of Metal fans don't have any idea of music and/or playing.

Perkele, the guitarist I used to work with could play any type of
blues, jazz, Jimmy Page note for note, it was his specialty. He could not play anything by Slayer or Exodus et al. His physical ability would not allow it. Intensity may not be everything, but it allows a guitarist, drummer or bassist to play things that other people just can't play.

One thing I have noticed about Hardcore Metal fans, and Sermon
may agree or disagree with this, is that there are more of a % of
people who listen to it, that actually play, than any other type of
music. So many people I know who listen to Slayer etc., actually
play instruments, to what level of success I cannot answer, but
EVERYONE can't suck! People that listen to Guns n' Roses, and other pop bands, are just basically in general tone deaf.

 

[Charvelle]

I disagree. Do you think that jazz died in the 70's? No it didn't.

Jazz has maintained the same fan base it always has, small, same
as hardcore.... Charvelle

Have you heard any jazz drummers, live? I guess you're not. I would understand if you and the a-hole guy would say that for example Dave Lombardo is the all-time greatest metal drummer. I wouldn't arque with that. That would probably be true. I must say that I'm not a fan of any kind of metal music and to be honest I really don't understand why someone is. Three weeks ago I did watch few minutes of Slayers live concert from TV and I started to laugh. There is absolutely nothing in that kind of music that I would like. Nothing! Feel free to tell me why you do like it.

I have not seen any live jazz. I cannot explain why I like metal, and I can't understand why someone likes jazz, it's one of those
personal things...Charvelle

I know too but I know also that those guys won't play any of Paco De Lucia's or Al Di Meola's music note for note. Ever.

I would just agree to disagree with you on this....Charvelle

If hundreds of thousands of people have bought and listened to the most influental hardcore music then do you think that no one will remember Steve Gadd's, Vinnie Colauita's, Jeff Porcaro's music in 2102? These theree guys have played on over 2000 albums in their career and in many different music styles. Over billions of albums sold. Most of them are classic albums and also most influental in history of music.

My point on this, which you missed, is that YOU are not qualified
as a musician to judge even Jeff Bacerra from Possessed. He fronted a metal band, recorded 3 albums, toured the world, and
sold over 1/2 million records while he was still a teenager. What
makes a musician, and seperates the men from the boys, is the
ability to write music people want to hear. YOU do not do it, and
you never will do it, and neither will I. So we haven't earned the
right to look down on any of these musicians, death metal or not.
They have out-accomplished you 100 fold. So when you've wrote
a couple full lenth albums, that have sold in the 6 digits, I will put
some weight on your opinion. I do not look down on any musician
who has accomplished something, jazz, metal or whatever. I do
look down on the asshole hanging out in the bar, who says he can play better than Van Halen, but hasn't wrote a song in his life.
It is why you watched Slayer on TV, and they don't know you exist.....Charvelle

LOL! The drummer of Morbid Angel would also laugh for you comment. If "intensity" is what makes good drummer good then we're in right forum. Let's all workout so we'll have the intensity to play 1,5 hour. Who care's if the timing sucks. You guys are hopeless. LOL!

Again I agree to disagree, I'm sure ability wise, this man could've
done whatever he wanted, but he chose hardcore, I highly doubt
he would put his abilities below anyone else's. I wouldn't, he is
awesome...Charvelle

 

[perkele]

sorry bro,I was trying to keep this subtle,but you sir are a fucking retard when it comes to drumming knowledge.You don't play drums, why the fuck would you tell me,a drummer who is good,and who is not.I don't go talking shit about the shitty guitarists that you listen to,do I no because I realize it's not my place to say.So when it comes to drums,leave it up to me ok dad!You need to step aside with your love for oldies,and let the new talent take the reighns!!!!the end>>>>>

I'm a guitarist, not a drummer but I can play drums too. I wouldn't be surprised if I would be a better drummer than you. Other instruments that I can play too are piano, bass, trumpet and flute, but only with guitar and bass I'm really good IMHO. I've also been singing in choir about 16 years, yes, classical music. Like I said, I know your kind of guys and what's their knowledge about music is. Mostly there isn't any and that's why they're into heavymetal, punk, tekno or rap music. Metal fans do live in their own world where only metal players are something worth of mentioning. To them every metal singer is better singer than for example Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett. I bet you think the same way. About drumming, you're a drummer but you have not said anything about drumming that would let me to take you seriously.

 

[perkele]

I disagree. Do you think that jazz died in the 70's? No it didn't.
....................................., I highly doubt he would put his abilities below anyone else's. I wouldn't, he is awesome...Charvelle

I disagree with everything that comes out of your mouth and I'm starting to realize I can't do anything to make you change your mind or make you think about different. I would really love to debate about this with you but cause I'm from the "mountains of Mongolia" my english ain't good enough to express everything in the way that I would like. You can't explain why you like metal. I sure can explain why I like jazz and also classical, R'nB, soul, blues, rock, fusion,... I like music which has good melody, harmony, phrasing, dynamics, arrangement, good intonation, tonality, modulation, improvisation and real instrumentation. Music that can be approaches in many different ways. Metal music just doesn't have those qualities (and of course you disagree). Music which is played with few power chords and with heavy distortion isn't for me. And the singing, oh please. People do need to be a tone deaf just to be able to like metal music. IMHO. And most I've met are. Nice and funny dudes but musicly hopeless. What comes to me and if I'm qualified to judge someone I must disagree again. I can play many instruments (6+vocal) and I've written and arranged music also. My own songs have not been recorded yet but songs that I've co-written and arranged have been recorded by other artists. I've also played guitar on few albums. There are also guys who have written songs over 50 years and have teached music also as long and they've never sold any records cause they have not recorded any. Can you say that they are not qualified to judge other artists who have recorded? Albums sales don't mean anything about how good you area as a musician. If there's enough "idiots" you can sell anything. Britney Spears. Hello!
I don't look down on any musician who has accomplished something, but I'm enough qualified to judge how well they can play their instruments and what kind of music is the most challenging for musicians. I can put my life on the line for the fact that top jazz player will out-play top metal players anytime, anywhere. Day or night, blindfolded or not. It's like putting Mike Tyson in a ring againts Pee-Wee Herman.
And that's a fact Jack!

 

[Charvelle]

Albums sales don't mean anything about how good you area as a musician. If there's enough "idiots" you can sell anything. Britney Spears. Hello!

Album sales for a musician, means that you are writing stuff that other people want to hear, which is the hardest thing for a musician to accomplish. Like I said, I know alot of "Bar Stars" who sit around their local pubs, and can play note for note with some of the greatest guitarists around. But they are not "Stars" because they do not have the ability to write their OWN stuff that will sell. To me this is the biggest seperation of talent. ALOT of people can play, but few can play & write. There was nothing special about Lennon's guitar playing, or McCartney's bass playing (though he is an excellent bassist), they were Lennon & McCartney, because they wrote songs that people still sing along to 40 years later. Britney Spears is totally out of concept from what I was talking about, she does not play or write, she is only
a performer. Jeff Bacerra, played, sang & wrote on 3 full length
albums before he was 21. His first album recorded while he was
a senior in high school "Seven Churches" by Possessed is one of
the top selling hardcore albums of all-time, having sold nearly 500,000 copies to date. He created this, he wasn't just a performer. While 500,000 is not ALOT of record sales, in the Death Metal field, it is equivalent to having a Double Platinum album. Not to mention the countless bands and musicians he influenced, basically single-handedly creating "Death Metal" music.
Believe me Perkele, there are thousands of kids wanting to do this, He is the only one who accomplished it. He definately had the
talent to go into whatever style of music he wanted, and would've
succeeded with Rock, R & B, and probably would've been a great
Jazz bassist. I could never look at someone like that, and say they could not play or accomplish anything, because they have done it. I am at least glad you said you have respect for someone
who has accomplished things in the music industry. I just do not
like the "Bar Star" who is putting down someone who is accomplished, and not slumming around local Pubs playing for $50
a night, covering other musicians songs.


I would suggest then getting Fear Factory "Obsolete" & Slayer
"Hell Awaits" albums, really listening to these drummers, and then
saying they are not good drummers.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

I'm a guitarist, not a drummer but I can play drums too. I wouldn't be surprised if I would be a better drummer than you. Other instruments that I can play too are piano, bass, trumpet and flute, but only with guitar and bass I'm really good IMHO. I've also been singing in choir about 16 years, yes, classical music. Like I said, I know your kind of guys and what's their knowledge about music is. Mostly there isn't any and that's why they're into heavymetal, punk, tekno or rap music. Metal fans do live in their own world where only metal players are something worth of mentioning. To them every metal singer is better singer than for example Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennett. I bet you think the same way. About drumming, you're a drummer but you have not said anything about drumming that would let me to take you seriously.

I'm glad to hear that you've covered so many various instruments in your life.I on the other hand seriouslly doubt that you even come close to my drumming abilities.I've played guitar before,I'm willing to bet that I'm better than you!!Sounds pretty childish huh?Yeah anyways, I also have several instruments under my belt which include all percussion instruments.This topic has become a pissing contest between us,and neither is going to budge,so you enjoy your music,I'll enjoy mine.In the end it's about the love for the music,and the creative proccess involved in writing it,not the love for popularity such as yourself.

 

[Charvelle]

He can't see outside of his small world Sermon, though he accuses us of the same. We are not saying anything negative
about Jazz or R&B musicians etc., we are merely saying that metal has some of the most talented musicians in the world, and
yes even death metal, and that these musicians are JUST as talented as any of the "legends" Perkele is talking about, but he
is too narrow minded to believe this. He is of an understanding that only someone with limited musical skills are in metal, because
they did not have the ability to play other music. How funny that
is, it is something that can be said only by someone who doesn't
love metal, listen to it, or even have an understanding of it. It is
typical, my guitarist I use to work with was quick to dismiss some
of the speed metal I was playing, because he quite simply did not
have the technical skill to play this music. The riffing, picking and
timing changes were too much for him, YET he could play Jimmy Page or any blues guitarist note for note, he simply dismissed it
as rubbish, because he could not play it. Same here, Perkele is
simply dismissing the musician, because he thinks the musician
does not love metal in his heart, he only plays it because he can
do nothing else...this is truly comical.

I think we've made our point, we just agree to disagree, period.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

He can't see outside of his small world Sermon, though he accuses us of the same. We are not saying anything negative
about Jazz or R&B musicians etc., we are merely saying that metal has some of the most talented musicians in the world, and
yes even death metal, and that these musicians are JUST as talented as any of the "legends" Perkele is talking about, but he
is too narrow minded to believe this. He is of an understanding that only someone with limited musical skills are in metal, because
they did not have the ability to play other music. How funny that
is, it is something that can be said only by someone who doesn't
love metal, listen to it, or even have an understanding of it. It is
typical, my guitarist I use to work with was quick to dismiss some
of the speed metal I was playing, because he quite simply did not
have the technical skill to play this music. The riffing, picking and
timing changes were too much for him, YET he could play Jimmy Page or any blues guitarist note for note, he simply dismissed it
as rubbish, because he could not play it. Same here, Perkele is
simply dismissing the musician, because he thinks the musician
does not love metal in his heart, he only plays it because he can
do nothing else...this is truly comical.

I think we've made our point, we just agree to disagree, period.







Sing it brother charvelle!!!!

 

[perkele]

There's a club for your kind of guys but not that many members. PEACE!

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

There's a club for your kind of guys but not that many members. PEACE!

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

oh perkele I almost forgot,about two years ago "modern drummer" had a full page article on paul mazurkiewicz a.k.a. the drummer from Cannibal Corpse.They were talking about his talents,and also about his sponsors i.e....tama drums,axis pedals,and quantum sticks.If your favorite drummers mag can recognize a deathmetal drummer,why can't you??

 

[perkele]

oh perkele I almost forgot,about two years ago "modern drummer" had a full page article on paul mazurkiewicz a.k.a. the drummer from Cannibal Corpse.They were talking about his talents,and also about his sponsors i.e....tama drums,axis pedals,and quantum sticks.If your favorite drummers mag can recognize a deathmetal drummer,why can't you??

They've also had articles on Tommy Lee, Matt Sorum and the guy from Blink182, so that doesn't prove anything. They're not bad drummers but far from being concidered a top drummers in the world. I never said that deathmetal drummers are not good. They're not just good enough to be compared to guys like Vinnie Colauita, Steve Gadd, Billy Cobham, Tony Williams etc. Best of them are surely better than Ringo Starr, John Bonham and Keith Moon and also most of those hardrock drummers from bands like Bon Jovi, Scorpions, AC/DC, Metallica, Creed, Nickelback, Aerosmith etc.

I'm just wondering how you know guys like Chambers and Weckl but not guys like Colauita, Gadd, Cobham, Porcaro, Williams, Jones, Bozzio...... I don't mean that you haven't heard their names before.

 

[perkele]

Modern Drummer mags readers TOP25 Drummers of ALL TIME!

1.Buddy Rich
2.Gene Krupa
3.Steve Gadd
4.Tony Williams
5.Neil Peart
6.Vinnie Colauita
7.Louie Bellson
8.Max Roach
9.John Bonham
10.Elvin Jones
11.Papa Jo Jones
12.Billy Cobham
13.Ringo Starr
14.Jack DeJohnette
15.Dennis Chambers
16.Roy Haynes
17.Terry Bozzio
18.Philly Joe Jones
19.Keith Moon
20.Steve Smith
21.Joe Morello
22.Jeff Porcaro
23.Dave Weckl
24.Shelly Manne
25.Simon Phillips


About 20 drummer are jazz/fusion drummers. Ringo is there because of The Beatles, Bonzo because of Zeppelin and Keith Moon because of The Who. Some of the most legendary bands in the world.


Why doesn't deathmetal fans vote? I'm assuming they do read the mag.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

So now your contadicting yourself.You live by the idea that if a drummer does not exist in the eyes of "modern drummer",then they obvioussly suck.On the other hand you state that they had reviews of "tommy lee,matt sorum,and blink 182", drummers that you obviouslly don't feel live up to the name modern drummer.I can hardlly grasp your ideas,and by the looks of it, you can't either.And about weckle,and chambers,they are but a few that I recognize as talented,not to mention virgil donati who will crush everyone on your list.The others just are not my cup of tea.

 

[perkele]

So now your contadicting yourself.You live by the idea that if a drummer does not exist in the eyes of "modern drummer",then they obvioussly suck.On the other hand you state that they had reviews of "tommy lee,matt sorum,and blink 182", drummers that you obviouslly don't feel live up to the name modern drummer.I can hardlly grasp your ideas,and by the looks of it, you can't either.And about weckle,and chambers,they are but a few that I recognize as talented,not to mention virgil donati who will crush everyone on your list.The others just are not my cup of tea.

Don't assume anything. OK?

Do you really think that all those who voted are less intelligent than you and that they don't know as much about drumming than you?

Before naming you the biggest idiot who ever lived can you tell what you know about drummers like Gadd, Colauita and Williams? Let's start with these three drummers.

You're the drummer so start telling.

 

[perkele]

I guess your age explains a lot "sermon of mockery" about you and sadly about your taste of music. Btw, which one are you, Beavis or the Butt-head?

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

Don't assume anything. OK?

Do you really think that all those who voted are less intelligent than you and that they don't know as much about drumming than you?

Before naming you the biggest idiot who ever lived can you tell what you know about drummers like Gadd, Colauita and Williams? Let's start with these three drummers.

You're the drummer so start telling.

I'm assuming that you can't backpedal fast enough to take back the fact that you are a mentally deprived,contradicting fool.It's ok with me if you can't see the fact that your diatribe continueslly reeks of closed -mindedness.


Do you really think that all those who voted are less intelligent than you and that they don't know as much about drumming than you?


who said anything about voting you goon.I was really looking forward to your explanation on the reason drummers that don't reach your expectations were reviewed in modern drummer.Maybe you'll get back to me on this one?




Before naming you the biggest idiot who ever lived can you tell what you know about drummers like Gadd, Colauita and Williams? Let's start with these three drummers.





First of all,do you think that every person that listens to another style of music besides jazz is an "idiot",I sure as fuck hope not.And why the fuck would I care about drummers that don't present any challenge to pursue?I don't care for those drummers,and therefore I don't know much more than the fact that they are'nt that good.That's all I need to know when it come to them.


Ok now I'm going to predict what you'll say next.

"If your such a great drummer,then why don't you know about those jazz drummers?'

Answer is,they are unable to keep my attention with that boring, old-school music,that has zero appeal what-so -ever.So now that I've answered your questions,why don't you answer mine.
Why would modern drummer review drummers that you feel don't deserve it?Possible due to the fact that you are so closed off from the real music world.

Also if you are such the drumming expert,would you so kindlly tell me about Sean rhienert,alex marquez,or dave culross?

let's just start with these three drummers shall we?

 

[crimson coal]

I kinda Liked Bam Bam from the Flinstones...He had an aggressive style.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

I kinda Liked Bam Bam from the Flinstones...He had an aggressive style.

"this is perkele not sermon,dude if bam bam were any good at all,he would be in modern drummer",but he's not therefore he sucks!!

 

[perkele]

Listen to me Beavis. I can't help you if you're so fucking stupid to understand these things. Maybe you're just too young to understand and maybe you just mature slower than other people at your age. Btw, did you're school go well?

"who said anything about voting you goon."

Who said anything about voting? Me of course you fucking idiot! Can't you read? The point I made, and what you still haven't understand, is that those who did vote do know more about drumming and about drummers than me and you. That's the kind of magazine that you don't read unless you're a drummer or interested of drumming and music. So those people did vote those guys there and I don't think that they would have vote bad drummers if there would have been better guys to choose from. OK? If deathmetal drummer would be so good that he should be in MD's TOP25 then he would have been voted there. PERIOD! If you're good if enough then people will know about you and definitely give their vote to you. No matter how undergroud music you play. The word will spread, you know. Btw, Jazz is more underground than metal music these days.

"I was really looking forward to your explanation on the reason drummers that don't reach your expectations were reviewed in modern drummer.Maybe you'll get back to me on this one?"

What? I don't understand you? Help me out? Do you wanna know why MD writes about drummers like Tommy Lee? Can't they write about him, and why? What's your point? This is so out of topic. More about this later......

"First of all,do you think that every person that listens to another style of music besides jazz is an "idiot",I sure as fuck hope not."

Definitely not! Only few deathmetal and punk fans here and there. One is you.

"And why the fuck would I care about drummers that don't present any challenge to pursue?"

That's just the biggest crap talk in history my dear idiot friend and deep down in your heart you know it too. Can't add more to that. LOL!

"I don't care for those drummers,and therefore I don't know much more than the fact that they are'nt that good.That's all I need to know when it come to them."

You don't care or you don't know? You don't know. I UNDERSTAND if you're not into jazz and that way also not into jazz players. That I do understand. I also understand that you don't know anything about music, playing, music theory, notes, etc. And that explains a lot.

"If your such a great drummer,then why don't you know about those jazz drummers?'

Answer is,they are unable to keep my attention with that boring, old-school music,that has zero appeal what-so -ever.So now that I've answered your questions,why don't you answer mine."

So you don't think that album full of fast double bass drumming ain't boring? The fact is that jazz is too difficult music for you to understand (and that's why "boring"), but don't worry friend cause you're not the only one. There are many others. Neil Peart isn't that into jazz but the technical virtuosity they have is something that he admires a lot. The thing that proves you're stupid (as far music is concerned) is the fact you keep on pushing that old-school and oldies stuff when you talk about jazz. So doesn't it mean that in 2022 you're not interested of metal anymore cause it's the old-school music?
The most difficult jazz ain't that much older than metal music my friend. Heavy metal pioneer Black Sabbath started in 1977 and Miles Davis's landmark "Bitches Brew" album came later and Jazz fusion was born.


"Why would modern drummer review drummers that you feel don't deserve it?"

You just can't read or actually understand what you read. I've never said that those guys (Tommy Lee, Matt Sorum etc.) don't deserve to be in the pages of MD mag. Where did you get that idea? They're just not good enough to be voted for example in TOP25 all time drummers list. OK? I hope you did understand now.

"Possible due to the fact that you are so closed off from the real music world."

If you think that deathmetal is a part or the only part of the real music world then you can live freely in your bubble. End of story. Also if you think that I only listen just jazz then you've again mistakes badly. The music styles I don't listen are trash/death/speed/etc. metal, punk, tekno/dance and that's about it. Everything else goes, from hardrock to reggea and from tango to Polish folk music. How about you? Btw, the most "heaviest" songs I like are Metallica's "Enter Sandman" and Toto's "Kingdom Of Desire".

"Also if you are such the drumming expert,would you so kindlly tell me about Sean rhienert,alex marquez,or dave culross?"

If the most famous and the respected drummers like Colauita, Gadd and Williams doesn't say anything to you then how the hell should guys like Sean "Who?" Rhienert, Alex "Another who?" Marquez and Dave "They don't know me either" Culross say anything to me? I can name few Scandinavian deathmetal drummers to you: Harri Karmala, Stefan Andersson and Seppo "Hepo" Ikola. They are better drummers than those deathmetal drummers you named (or that's what the stupid deathmetal fans here say). Why haven't you heard about those guys? Btw, who set the standards on double bass drumming? Answer: Jazz legend Louis Bellson. He was the first drummer to succesfully utilize double bass drums. Toto's Simon Phillips is concidered to be the master of double bass drumming. He don't play that simple 8th. or 16th. note shit that deathmetal drummers do play. Simon has played triplets with his right feet and 8ths. with his left feet AT THE SAME TIME in fast tempo and that's beyond anything that's ever been played with double bass drums. Vinnie Colauita is the king of odd meters. He's able to strecth and go beyond the typical rhythmic stuff that most great drummers play. Steve Gadd has recorded some of the most important and innovative tracks of all time, with an astonishingly wide range of artists. No one has and no one can play as many styles as he cans. There's few reasons why those guys are there and not those that you mentioned.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

Oh man you've gone beyond reason with this.This topic can be dragged out endlesslly, and I know you see this.First off let's start with the fact that you were the aggressor,in calling me stupid for having my own opinion.And school is great thanx for asking,I'm acing my class.

God I don't even know where to begin with your response.You have more than shown me that you can not see talent,creativity,uniqueness,not to mention ungodlly stamina,within drummers anywhere.


everyone of your comment deserve a response,but this one takes the cake.

You don't care or you don't know? You don't know. I UNDERSTAND if you're not into jazz and that way also not into jazz players. That I do understand. I also understand that you don't know anything about music, playing, music theory, notes, etc. And that explains a lot.


Within your 22 years of GUITAR playing,not drums,you do recognize that within my 13 years of trained drumming I would have learned everything and more that you have on this list.I was not trained in deathmetal,nor did I know of it's existance until many years later.I was trained is the arts of percussion a.k.a drums for the shallow minded such as yourself.Every day of every year of my 13 years was a learning experience,gathering as much information about my instrument as possible.I have performed many jazz shows,marching band shows,orchestra concerts,and each were a walk in the park.So easy in fact that I could just step in without knowing the piece performed.Now once my training ended,and all was in my hands,I was still hungry for challenge.I was set loose to use my aquired talents for however I chose.I had so many ways I could have gone,enough knowledge to pursue any style,any realm of the music world.In the years to follow,I listened to many styles,and various jazz musicians(weckle,chambers,donati).But the only thing that caught,and kept my attention was the intriquet,ever changing,twisting,gut wrenching,elaborate style of deathmetal drummers.The first cd I heard blew me straight out of the water.The drummer sean rheinert was very jazzy in style,yet unrelenting in his aggressive bomb- baredment of sounds.He was very much in time,every note accounted for,so don't for a second think that we don't know timing.This music was so precise,that it made the hair on my arms stand straight on end,I never had heard anything so spectacular on drums ever.So my point with this is(if you could'nt catch it),that I was well roundedlly trained for any style I chose.And if I were looking for the biggest challenge of my life,I would soon choose the path I now walk.

I do understand that if you were listening to the wrong drummers,you would have a bad taste in your mouth.Same with saying I don't recognize your favorite drummers.Don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch for you,believe me as a drummer with knowledge on the subject,deathmetal drummer are some of the best this planet has to offer.


quote: I can name few Scandinavian deathmetal drummers to you: Harri Karmala, Stefan Andersson and Seppo "Hepo" Ikola. They are better drummers than those deathmetal drummers you named (or that's what the stupid deathmetal fans here say).


Perkele how can you possiblly say these guys are better than the ones I mention when in fact YOU'VE NEVER HEARD of the drummers I mentioned???

qoute:Btw, who set the standards on double bass drumming? Answer: Jazz legend Louis Bellson. He was the first drummer to succesfully utilize double bass drums. Toto's Simon Phillips is concidered to be the master of double bass drumming.



you are absolutelly right about loius belson,congradulations!He was the pioneer of double bass, and I look up to him in more ways than one.But if you wanted to talk about pioneers,you should have started a "pioneers of music " thread.
And about simon phillips, where the hell did you get this malarky from,did you make this up?If you actually read MD,you would know that they hold yearly drum compititions to find the latest,and best at double bass,hand technique,and overall drumming abilities.Simon phillips is no longer in the running.

 

[perkele]

Yada, yada, yada...... Crap only continues! Hopeless case.

 

[perkele]

One more IQ test! Which are better singers, deathmetal singers or jazz singers?

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

One more IQ test! Which are better singers, deathmetal singers or jazz singers?

by far jazz singers are better,deathmetal singers are only vocalists,but thats not the case at hand,the drummers are!

 

[perkele]

Jazz drummers and singers go hand in hand just like deathmetal metal drummers and singers!


Because you're a drummer I wanna know what you say about this:

Can you play it? Is it challenging? Is it deathmetal or is it blues? Where's the most challenging part and why it's the most challenging part?

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

Jazz drummers and singers go hand in hand just like deathmetal metal drummers and singers!


Because you're a drummer I wanna know what you say about this:

Can you play it? Is it challenging? Is it deathmetal or is it blues? Where's the most challenging part and why it's the most challenging part?

dude,why has this become a wits game between us,the question is about jazz vs. deathmetal drummers.


Can i play it?
YES without a doubt!!

challenging?

Challeneging in the fact I have'nt had to read music of someone else's since highschool.But after 30 seconds or so,very comprehendible.

deathmetal or jazz?

without a doubt jazz,it consist's mostlly of lame paradidlle rudements on the feet that most deathmetal drummers,know,mastered,and have no reason to play them because it's the same shit if played r.l.r.l.r.l.r.l ect.....Different in the fact,thats it's more of a mind game,but sounds the same no less.

Most challenging part?

me trying to understand why you think this is challenging in the slightest,it's not,don't kid yourself.I was playing more difficult pieces in middle school.

 

[perkele]

Well now you're officially named the number one idiot on this board. "I was playing more difficult pieces in middle school." It seems that the only name who was missing from that MD's top 25 was you. LOL! How does it feel to lie just to keep up with me? Of course It's so damn easy when you're anonymous person. If you really think that I'm so stupid or someone else is that stupid on this board that they would believe this shit:"I was playing more difficult pieces in middle school." cause then they would believe me when I say that I was only 3 years old when I easily played all that Paco De Lucia stuff. I think you could do it also if you just would keep on pretending and lying. In your dreams you're awesome player, no matter what's the instrument. Now we all know that. Be a fake if that makes your day better. You say you've been playing drums for 13 years now. I don't exactly know the school system in US but I would guess you were just starting you're drumming career when you were in middle school. Am I even close? You were born in 1978? Anyway, you were already then playing better than the hall of fame drummers. That's pretty good. Do you really think even your metal buddy Charvelle will believe you? I doubt it.

Let's now hear what the Modern Drummer magazine has to say about that "easy" track:

We knew we had to pick a special solo to include in our 25th-Anniversary issue. In fact, we went digging way back to the early days of MD for this one, back to our July 1978 issue. "Aja," the title track from the classic Steely Dan record, features an AMAZING performance by the great Steve Gadd. Of course, legend has it that Gadd laid down this EXTREMELY DIFFICULT track in ONE take. That's almost UNBELIEVABLE. But when it comes to Steve Gadd, anything is possible. Pick up the disc (or dust off your old vinyl copy) and follow along as the master drummer displays some of his trademark licks in a musical - and exciting - way. The solo occurs near the end of the tune, at the 6:56 mark. It's a drum treat.


More... Here is a snippet from modern drummer '92:

"Aja is the most popular of all the Steely Dan recordings. Four of its seven tracks were radio hits with a broad spectrum of appeal. Musicians had a field day with the title track, which had powerful solos from Wayne Shorter and Steve Gadd. Gadd, it seems, was the ultimate foil for the Dan's demanding assault on a musician's psyche. For 'Aja' he sightread the entire seven-minute chart perfectly, solo and all, by the first take. An article at the time quoted Fagan as saying, "I was stunned. No one had ever done anything like that before. I couldn't believe it."


So you were about 12-13 years old when this would have been easy for you? Do you wanna change your story? Maybe you wanna leave this board and never come back again? Or will you keep on lying and pretending to be better than you are and pretending to know about more than you do? Btw, Gadd started to play drums when he was 3 years old and he was already playing with fucking Dizzy Gillespie when he was only 11 years old. You're 23-24, what have you accomplished as a drummer?

Now I only have 5 more question to you and that's it. I hope you will give your honest answer. Simple YES or NO will do just fine.

1.Do you think you know more about drumming than the MD's guy who wrote that story above?

2.Do you think you know more about drumming and drummers than all or most of those who voted in MD's poll?

3.Do you think you are more or less intelligent than the average metal fan?

4.Do you think it's a good thing to metal and metal fans if you're more intelligent than the average metal fans? George W. Bush of metal.

5.Do you think that lying will you take you far in this world?

 

[Drifter]

Just one question.......why the hell isn't Nick Mason listed anywhere. Of course the "best" is subjective but still, he is one hell of a talented drummer.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

OK first of all YES, that piece is the easiest PIECE of SHIT,I've come across in a long while.I WAS playing more difficult pieces in middle school,any drummer in middle school will agree that it's a simple piece.If you don't take my word for it,give this crap to a drummer in middle school that has a few years under his belt,and you'll be laughed at Literally!I started when in 4th grade,so by the time I hit middle school,I had two years EXTENSIVE TRAINING on all percussion instruments,including drumset.So sit down you stupid fuck ,your not in thre limelight like you think you are.Uneducated motherfucker!Who the fuck are you to tell me if I'm good or not,fact of the matter is I'am good,nay great!But you being as closed off as you are,theres no coming back for you.You're a half-wit,with a severe case of ignorance,and you will not open your eyes for anyone.


quote:You say you've been playing drums for 13 years now. I don't exactly know the school system in US but I would guess you were just starting you're drumming career when you were in middle school. Am I even close? You were born in 1978? Anyway, you were already then playing better than the hall of fame drummers. That's pretty good. Do you really think even your metal buddy Charvelle will believe you? I doubt it.



just because it took you longer to learn your instument does not mean that it took so long for me,I had a hunger for it,and played every day.And about charvelle ,yes I know he would agree because he unlike you,realizes what can be achieved in a short amount of time,if you are as dedicated as I.And two years form 4th grade to middle school,is not a short time.You just need to get over the fact that a youngster was,and is able to play what you consider hall of fame material(and what a fucking joke that is).


qoute:"Aja is the most popular of all the Steely Dan recordings. Four of its seven tracks were radio hits with a broad spectrum of appeal. Musicians had a field day with the title track, which had powerful solos from Wayne Shorter and Steve Gadd. Gadd, it seems, was the ultimate foil for the Dan's demanding assault on a musician's psyche. For 'Aja' he sightread the entire seven-minute chart perfectly, solo and all, by the first take. An article at the time quoted Fagan as saying, "I was stunned. No one had ever done anything like that before. I couldn't believe it."


BIG FUCKING SHIT MAN!!!!!Anyone who has any teaching,instruction,or even time on an instrument would be able to sight read.God your a fucking retard.I'm sorry that it took you so long to get where you are,and still be a mindless loser.WAKE UP MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!DAMN your sad.Maybe you should practice sightreading some more,so that you will realize that it's not difficult at all.Catch up with the rest of us.


quote:You're 23-24, what have you accomplished as a drummer?



From middle school to highscool,I learned every aspect that makes percussion.From snare to tympany,from marimba to cymbals,from xylaphone to piano,from bass drums to drumset,from chimes to quads,and quads to quints,and so on and so on.The list goes on I have the knowlegde,skills know how to shut stupid fucks like you down everytime,time and time again!!!!In highschool marching band we placed in top 3 every year,and there were judges which knew musicianship when seen,unlike you.Every year after marching band,our drumline would go and tour california to show our talents.Every show,every year 1 st place winners !!!!THats right no lie,no need to lie, we have trophies to prove it
After highscool,I joined at least four different bands within a five year span.Each one played shows,each one had a following.The last band I was in realeased an ep on unique leader records,and the second is recorded,but not yet released.Not to mention shirts,merchandise,fanbase ect.....


about your questionaire:::
#1 I have no idea what type of knowledge they have of PLAYING drums,but they sure know how to polish a turd,thats for sure!!!!All hype when it comes to that crap!!YOu do realize that the writers at times are nothing but writes.Deskmen,that sit at cubicles,and write,not play drums.

#2 When it comes to more knowledge about playing drums yes.And those are just the choices that md gave you,you had to pick from those shitty drummers,and thats all there is to that.

#3 I'am definetelly without a doubt MORE intelligent than most metal fans.Besides the fact that I don't listen to "metal",(it;'s deathmetal, and yes there is a difference).Most metal fans don't even know the first thing about musicianship,BUT..the bands that play do!!!Thats were you have me wroong,you think I'm a metal fan,when in fact I'am a deathmetal drummer,with knowledge,and skill,so get off your highhorse bitch!!!


#4 goerge w.bush,of deathmetal?I know it's more important to be the intelligent one of the bunch,when is that not important?


#5 I have never had any reason to lie,I prove my point with action not words.I have never lied in this thread,not even once,and there is no way I can convince you otherwise.


BLAM!!!!!! take that cunt

 

[Charvelle]

Sorry Sermon, I was OOT for a couple days, and wasn't here to
chime in.

Perkele, it is fun to debate with you, even though you said you
weren't going to I love it when good musicians get into a
philosophical debate over the style they love. Bro, there is no
doubt in anyones mind who has played Death metal well, those
drummers are among the best in the world, and could learn other
styles no problem, and easily take on the jazz world, even right
now. However these jazz drummers, at this point in their life,
could not take on the demands of drumming hardcore, they most
definately COULD have, if they started this when they were younger in music, but at this point in time, would be left behind
in the mosh pit no doubt. So the simple end to this is Ray Herrerra could easily take to the jazz world, and accomplish much,
however NO jazz drummer could simply go sit in with Fear Factory.

You are going to have to accept that some of the best guitarists,
bassists and drummers on this planet are playing hardcore. They
were NOT banished to hardcore because they flunked out of music
theory at some state college. They chose it, live it, love it, and play it. You make it sound as if only music "flunkies" go play metal, because "boohoo" they couldn't handle jazz, and got kicked out of class. Bro, that is ridiculous.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

Thats what I'm say'in...........BOOOOYEAH BITCH

 

[perkele]

I knew it would end up 6-0 for me, thanks.


Charvelle don't know that much about these things either but thank god he's 100 times more matured than you. That I do respect.


Next time try to keep yourself cool and not talk about so much crap then someone will maybe take you seriously. God bless you both, I guess.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

Charvelle don't know that much about these things either but thank god he's 100 times more matured than you. That I do respect.


Next time try to keep yourself cool and not talk about so much crap then someone will maybe take you seriously. God bless you both, I guess.



answer::13 years of drumming and still so fucking stupid........... I guess your deathmetal band doesn't get the recognition it deserves?


Kurt Cobain is a better guitarist than Pat Metheny and nothing what I say will not change their opinion. Welcome to that club!!!

I would understand if you and the a-hole guy would say that for example Dave Lombardo is the all-time greatest metal drummer

Who care's if the timing sucks. You guys are hopeless. LOL!

I wouldn't be surprised if I would be a better drummer than you.

Day or night, blindfolded or not. It's like putting Mike Tyson in a ring againts Pee-Wee Herman.
And that's a fact Jack!

Before naming you the biggest idiot who ever lived can you tell what you know about drummers like Gadd, Colauita and Williams? Let's start with these three drummers.


I guess your age explains a lot "sermon of mockery" about you and sadly about your taste of music. Btw, which one are you, Beavis or the Butt-head?

Listen to me Beavis. I can't help you if you're so fucking stupid to understand these things. Maybe you're just too young to understand and maybe you just mature slower than other people at your age. Btw, did you're school go well?


Definitely not! Only few deathmetal and punk fans here and there. One is you.

That's just the biggest crap talk in history my dear idiot friend

They are better drummers than those deathmetal drummers you named (or that's what the stupid deathmetal fans here say).

Yada, yada, yada...... Crap only continues! Hopeless case.



Well now you're officially named the number one idiot on this board.

Next time try to keep yourself cool and not talk about so much crap then someone will maybe take you seriously. God bless you both, I guess.







All I see is you talking out your ass perkele!!!!Mature this you contradicting fucknut!!!!

 

[perkele]

Charvelle don't know that much about these things either but thank god he's 100 times more matured than you. That I do respect.

Next time try to keep yourself cool and not talk about so much crap then someone will maybe take you seriously. God bless you both, I guess.

answer::13 years of drumming and still so fucking stupid........... I guess your deathmetal band doesn't get the recognition it deserves?

Kurt Cobain is a better guitarist than Pat Metheny and nothing what I say will not change their opinion. Welcome to that club!!!

I would understand if you and the a-hole guy would say that for example Dave Lombardo is the all-time greatest metal drummer

Who care's if the timing sucks. You guys are hopeless. LOL!

I wouldn't be surprised if I would be a better drummer than you.

Day or night, blindfolded or not. It's like putting Mike Tyson in a ring againts Pee-Wee Herman.
And that's a fact Jack!

Before naming you the biggest idiot who ever lived can you tell what you know about drummers like Gadd, Colauita and Williams? Let's start with these three drummers.

I guess your age explains a lot "sermon of mockery" about you and sadly about your taste of music. Btw, which one are you, Beavis or the Butt-head?

Listen to me Beavis. I can't help you if you're so fucking stupid to understand these things. Maybe you're just too young to understand and maybe you just mature slower than other people at your age. Btw, did you're school go well?

Definitely not! Only few deathmetal and punk fans here and there. One is you.

That's just the biggest crap talk in history my dear idiot friend

They are better drummers than those deathmetal drummers you named (or that's what the stupid deathmetal fans here say).

Yada, yada, yada...... Crap only continues! Hopeless case.

Well now you're officially named the number one idiot on this board.

Next time try to keep yourself cool and not talk about so much crap then someone will maybe take you seriously. God bless you both, I guess.

All I see is you talking out your ass perkele!!!!Mature this you contradicting fucknut!!!!

"my dear idiot friend"


See how friendly I am even when I'm pissed off. You have a lot to learn.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

You have a lot to learn. [/B][/QUOTE]





LIKEWISE!!!!

 

[Kryp2o]

Mike Portnoy and Scott Rockenfield both get my vote !

 

[PerryB]

Mike Portnoy has to be on that list.

 

[Bulk32]

What about the drummer for Rush? once thought to be the fastest drummer in the world. he can throw his stix up 30 feet in the air and catch them on the way down and start off his next verse! I refused to believe it until i actually saw it in person. truly amazing!

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

What about the drummer for Rush? once thought to be the fastest drummer in the world. he can throw his stix up 30 feet in the air and catch them on the way down and start off his next verse! I refused to believe it until i actually saw it in person. truly amazing!

stick tricks I have no clue,but "the fastest drummer in the world",No fucking chance get real.

 

[perkele]

he can throw his stix up 30 feet in the air and catch them on the way down and start off his next verse!

What has that got to do with drumming?

 

[~HOUNDOG~]

Modern Drummer mags readers TOP25 Drummers of ALL TIME!


About 20 drummer are jazz/fusion drummers. Ringo is there because of The Beatles, Bonzo because of Zeppelin and Keith Moon because of The Who. Some of the most legendary bands in the world.
[/QUOTE


Dude,JOHN BONHAM was the best drummer ever.
Not JUST because of led zeppelin but because he was fucking phenomenal. He would do 30min srum solo's and have whole stadiums on their feet wanting more.
Fuck your jazz crap. Listen to "achilles last stand" and "Wanton song" and KNOW who the best drummer is bitch.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

Modern Drummer mags readers TOP25 Drummers of ALL TIME!


About 20 drummer are jazz/fusion drummers. Ringo is there because of The Beatles, Bonzo because of Zeppelin and Keith Moon because of The Who. Some of the most legendary bands in the world.
[/QUOTE


Dude,JOHN BONHAM was the best drummer ever.
Not JUST because of led zeppelin but because he was fucking phenomenal. He would do 30min srum solo's and have whole stadiums on their feet wanting more.
Fuck your jazz crap. Listen to "achilles last stand" and "Wanton song" and KNOW who the best drummer is bitch.

Dude it's called MODERN drummers hall of fame.He can't hold shit to any drummer these days.Sorry to give you the bad news He aint got SHIT!!!!!!!!!!

 

[perkele]

Modern Drummer mags readers TOP25 Drummers of ALL TIME!


About 20 drummer are jazz/fusion drummers. Ringo is there because of The Beatles, Bonzo because of Zeppelin and Keith Moon because of The Who. Some of the most legendary bands in the world.
[/QUOTE


Dude,JOHN BONHAM was the best drummer ever.
Not JUST because of led zeppelin but because he was fucking phenomenal. He would do 30min srum solo's and have whole stadiums on their feet wanting more.
Fuck your jazz crap. Listen to "achilles last stand" and "Wanton song" and KNOW who the best drummer is bitch.

Bonham, Starr & Moon were all members in the biggest bands in music history, and that's the reason why they were in MD's Hall of Fame. Not because they were the best drummers. Bonham had the groove but there were many guys who did it much better. The best were Porcaro & Purdie.

 

[Fleshcrawl]

Where's:
Nicko Mcbrain
John Bonham
Bill Ward
Lars Ulrich
?
You know little

 

[perkele]

Where's:
Nicko Mcbrain
John Bonham
Bill Ward
Lars Ulrich
?
You know little

LOL!

 

[sergio]

Mike Portnoy and Scott Rockenfield both get my vote !

Good choices !....anybody heard the drummer of Nile? If he isn't the fastest M*****F***** !!!!!!

 

[perkele]

Good choices !....anybody heard the drummer of Nile? If he isn't the fastest M*****F***** !!!!!!

What has speed to do with good music? Nothing.

 

[sergio]

What has speed to do with good music? Nothing.

Good music is a matter of personal preference...and it takes skill to play at a high level,in this case speed,with any consistency. Most drummers can't do what what he does..

 

[perkele]

Good music is a matter of personal preference...and it takes skill to play at a high level,in this case speed,with any consistency. Most drummers can't do what what he does..

You said "anybody heard the drummer of Nile?"


NO! Maybe that explains how "good" he is.


You can be a good 100 meter sprinter but that doesn't mean you'll be a good in decathlon. It doesn't even mean you have a great technique as a 100 meter sprinter. You may run fast but you're technique can still be a far from perfect.

He can bang drums in Nile today, tomorrow and the rest of his life and he will never be a good "athlete in decathlon" like drummer greats Gadd, Colauita, Williams etc. Versatility is the key word here and not speed. Even if it was only about speed I'd like to hear him play shuffle groove faster than guys I mentioned. Sorry, Nile is dry.

 

[sergio]

You said "anybody heard the drummer of Nile?"


NO! Maybe that explains how "good" he is.


You can be a good 100 meter sprinter but that doesn't mean you'll be a good in decathlon. It doesn't even mean you have a great technique as a 100 meter sprinter. You may run fast but you're technique can still be a far from perfect.

He can bang drums in Nile today, tomorrow and the rest of his life and he will never be a good "athlete in decathlon" like drummer greats Gadd, Colauita, Williams etc. Versatility is the key word here and not speed. Even if it was only about speed I'd like to hear him play shuffle groove faster than guys I mentioned. Sorry, Nile is dry.

SHEEESHH !!! You're overanalizing...all I said was the guy is fast, and not all drummers have the aptitude for playing that STYLE, which is what it is...I don't know if he is that versatile playing other styles but he is good at what he does.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

nile's drummer is good.He could easily learn to play any of perkele's picks,yet perkele's picks could NOT do the same.

 

[TheOak84]

Traivs Barker is a fuckin awesome drummer... If no one understands that... I cant help..

 

[SuperbeastC&J]

dave silvera, from korn or John tempestra from white zombie.

 

[Diesel646]

Dave Suzuki absolutely destroys the kit on the new Vital Remains.

Doc from Vader is good, as are the previously mentioned Herrara and Lombardo. Just listen to Lombardo's work on Testament's "The Gathering". Killer!


Sermon, what band are you in? A site I review for covers some Unique Leader bands.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

Dave Suzuki absolutely destroys the kit on the new Vital Remains.

Doc from Vader is good, as are the previously mentioned Herrara and Lombardo. Just listen to Lombardo's work on Testament's "The Gathering". Killer!


Sermon, what band are you in? A site I review for covers some Unique Leader bands.

Deprecated.

btw...doc is fucking disgustinglly good.

 

[perkele]

nile's drummer is good.He could easily learn to play any of perkele's picks,yet perkele's picks could NOT do the same.

You know that's BS but what can you do. You must defend minority music and musicians cause no one other than fans will.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

You know that's BS but what can you do. You must defend minority music and musicians cause no one other than fans will.

I think deathmetal would be much more recognized if it was'nt for the vocals.

 

[Diesel646]

I think deathmetal would be much more recognized if it wasn't for the vocals.

That's true, but there's also the issue of death metal being so aggressive, in general. Even if there were somewhat clean vocals over the hyperspeed drumming and riffage, a lot of people don't want their music that pissed-off. Testament(quasi-clean vox, fast music, fair example) isn't exactly going platinum anytime soon. Does that make Testament suck? Fuck no, they give me just what I need. As for Perkele, that last statement is weak. "You must defend minority music and musicians cause no one other than fans will." Well of course only the fans will support it, DM isn't for everyone, but most of your arguments seem to insist that death metal drummers are untalented hacks because the average music listener doesn't like it. Linkin Park goes quintuple-platinum, does that make them virtuosos? Jazz-fusion isn't lighting up the charts either, but that doesn't mean it's without merit. There's more to talent than whether or not you enjoy it.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

That's true, but there's also the issue of death metal being so aggressive, in general. Even if there were somewhat clean vocals over the hyperspeed drumming and riffage, a lot of people don't want their music that pissed-off. Testament(quasi-clean vox, fast music, fair example) isn't exactly going platinum anytime soon. Does that make Testament suck? Fuck no, they give me just what I need. As for Perkele, that last statement is weak. "You must defend minority music and musicians cause no one other than fans will." Well of course only the fans will support it, DM isn't for everyone, but most of your arguments seem to insist that death metal drummers are untalented hacks because the average music listener doesn't like it. Linkin Park goes quintuple-platinum, does that make them virtuosos? Jazz-fusion isn't lighting up the charts either, but that doesn't mean it's without merit. There's more to talent than whether or not you enjoy it.

*golf clap*

 

[perkele]

Speed (and rage) is good. Creativity and improvisation sucks. Right?


I've always said that if the drummer is really, REALLY good he will get the recognition no matter what's the music genre they're from.

Danny Carey and Mike Portnoy are one of those rare cases from the heavier side of music.

 

[Diesel646]

I like improv and creativity within the bounds of speed. It must be a byproduct of this hyperspeed world we live in. Portnoy is good, though.

 

[Bullit]

sermon &/or Diesel646:

Please give me the name of ONE song that I should download that displays the best death drumming that you are aware of.

I wanna check it out... and I hope its not all fuckin blast beats.

 

[Diesel646]

If you want slower drumming, check out Opeth's "Demon of the Fall". If you don't mind the fast shit with lots of great fills, check out Vader's "Wings".

 

[perkele]

If you want slower drumming, check out Opeth's "Demon of the Fall". If you don't mind the fast shit with lots of great fills, check out Vader's "Wings".

Usually I find all the great fills in slower tunes. Check out for example Vinnie Colauita's work with Sting and the late Jeff Porcaro's with Boz Scaggs.

 

[Bullit]

If you don't mind the fast shit with lots of great fills, check out Vader's "Wings".

Fuck... the last minute of Wings with the double bass locked with the guitar and the pauses... fuckin sweet.

I'm surprised .. but I really like this track.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

Fuck... the last minute of Wings with the double bass locked with the guitar and the pauses... fuckin sweet.

I'm surprised .. but I really like this track.

docs double bass is always locked with the guitarists,but that takes no talent

 

[ANABOLICK1]

You know that's BS but what can you do. You must defend minority music and musicians cause no one other than fans will.

Yea, you just keep listening to pop radio, and they'll tell you who's good

Great musicians are not appreciated by the sheeple. They're not in it for the money.