Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Let's Lose This Myth Once And For All!!!
- Thread starter Nelson Montana
- Start date
solidspine said:
..
Nelson not sure if i read your thread correctly but does'nt this graph contradict what your are saying about T levels?
http://www.elitefitness.com/reports/steroidcycles/
http://www.elitefitness.com/reports/steroidcycles/
rg78 said:
Not sure how. Sus is an interesting drug and he uses that for an example. Remember, it has prop (gone in 4 days) and decanoate which is a little longer lasting than cyp or enth. (But not enough to be a big deal).
I haven't read Dino's book but it looks interesting.
NFG123reborn
New member
Nelson Montana said:
I have to disagree with you bro, from a scientific standpoint.
The crux of the debate is not what your blood levels are or even the "stability of them", infact, there is research taht shows varying troughs and peaks in dosing can have an anabolic effect itself and help provent HPG shutdown (hypothal-pit-gonadal).
The way that androgens work is poorly understood from a molecular biological standpoint. Several other factors, namely GH, IGF-1, IGF-2 (now more data backing this up), as well as the downregulation of SHBG (steroid hormone binding globulin) in the serum increase, increase and decrease respectiuvely over the course of many weeks. Keep in mind that physiologic androgens are 99% bound in the serum by albumin and SHBG. Downregulating these has a massive impact, but takes a while.
Also the adaptive musculature response takes a while to kick in. Androgen are, above all, transcription factors (ligands to nuclear receptors), or antagonize pathways that are repressors of androgen receptor mediated activation (Cortisol, for example), and gene activation, transcription, translation forming SECONDARY tx factors or repressor/corepressor complexes can take a week if not more to fully form.
The serum [] of seroids is not equivalent to response, there are a plethora of poorly understood physiologic adaptations that have to take place over a time period before you really "get going". I don't think this is explainable by people not training hard enough or "not feeling it" in the first two weeks because of their diet/training. I think it is a valid report of people who have experienced this time and again, and coming from someone in medicine, should not be dismissed or overlooked.
NFG
It's at the point where I get the feeling guys don't even train hard for the first few weeks because "the gear hasn't kicked in yet." What a waste. And it's all because of a notion which has been repeated so many times it's become regarded as truth. It isn't .
Of course, you may not see results for a while, but that doesn't mean the stuff isn't working. Personally, I always felt it after a few days.
If test is active for appox 10 days until the half life is essentially inert, what do you think happens to the first shot you take? Does anyone think it doesn't work because it knows you'll be doing other shots for the next 12 weeks? That's ridiculous! What is the reasoning here? I can't blame them though. That's what they've heard and that's what they believed and that's what they've passed on. It's time to let it go though.
Steroids do not "build up" in the system. They come and go. At week one you can have a T level of 2000ngs and at week 6 you can have a T level of 2000ngs. So why do you think week 6 is more productive? If anything, it's LESS productive because your natural T will be lower and your receptors will have downgraded more.
Sure, some guys will swear it doesn't "hit" them for a while. But it's a mistaken perception. Blood tests don't lie.
Prop acts a little faster (actually it's instant) but it's more a matter of being a short acting ester. That doesn't mean it necessarily works quicker, it just doesn't last as long. That has certain advantages, but not one that is applicable to long term use. Oh sure, guys will say how they got great gains form prop. No shit. EVERYTHING works. But there's a mechanism in which it works and isn't necessarily the way one may THINK it works.
The gains you make in week 2 will be the same gains you make in week 8 -- but of course, you've ammassed more gains over time. Get it? That doesn't mean they only came at the end. They've been building up for weeks!
This misinfomation is akin to a site about medicine debating the merits of voodoo. Enough already.
I don't want to make this a debate over short cycles vs long. Short cycles work if implimented correctly but they may not yield the results some people desire. Some guys need more time to build the muscle they want. That's fine. But it isn't because the gear hasn't kicked in for them. IT'S IN!
Now get to work.[/QUOTE]
NFG123reborn said:
Last edited:
worldclass
Banned
I just realized you don't understand the first thing about how steroids work do you? How they change the gene activity to increase protein synthesis? How long that takes? That a half-life and an elimination rate are not the same. That esters like Enanthate compound and create higher and higher blood levels from week one to week 4. The more I read the more I understand you. If I may borrow, you lack even basic understanding of pharmacology and drug pharmacokinetics. When it comes to metabolic impacts and modifications induced by AAS you're at a complete loss.
No wonder people yell at you.
No wonder people yell at you.
solidspine
New member
People yell at him because he does not know how to communicate and takes offense if you challenge his stated “expert opinion” and seems to be wrong most of the time, even on petty issue like this one, and he started the thread.
Fortunately I have never seen Nelson Montana speak about anything of any importance to body building, or if it is important he simply states the obvious, as if he were the first person to conclude a position.
Unfortunately his platitudes as his opening remarks of this tread, besides being incorrect are simply insulting to many of us, who unlike him, are in fact body builders and appreciate informative, useful information.
Hypothetical knowledge can be useful, but it is still assumptive and certainly not practical, just because he has seen some one or interviewed someone, so what,
It basically is irrelevant, especially when it is half correct and entirely self congratulatory
No one cares for a boastful, braggart, who can not help on this forum,
