"Gear" up now!, they don't like us!!

[slobberknocker]

I'll support our troops if and when this war takes place, but I won't support our government. I have a lot of friends in the military, and I hope they'll be ok.


I just don't think people realize what this war is really going to be like. This is not going to be another Persian Gulf. We're going to have to besiege Baghdad, and eventually there'll be fighting in the streets of Baghdad. That's nasty stuff right there.


There's 200 thousand troops in the regular Iraqi army. They're pretty much pussies.

Then there's about 100 thousand in the Iraqi Republican guard. They're good troops. They might surrender, but we'd definitely have to beat them decisively.

Finally, there's 30 thousand in Saddam's personal bodyguard. They're hardcore troops. They won't surrender, even if we kill Saddam. We'll probably have to kill all of them.

Again, I hope people aren't underestimating what this war is going to be like.

 

[granby140]

even if this is about oil, what does it matter. We are the greatest nation on earth. Lets stop taking peoples shit and dish some out finally

 

[sergio]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard a report that the US only gets 15% of their oil from Iraq, the rest from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

 

[AMBB4L]

Listen, this is what I know...

1. The Twin Towers are gone because of Al Queda
2. Iraq is supporting Al Queda

I don't want a war. But I feel like we should do something about Iraq and their Al Queda connection. It's gonna happen one of two ways:

1. We go into Iraq and take the chances (our military is in the military because they want to defend our country, so stop bitching about sending them to war). That's like saying, I want to be a painter, but I don't want to get any paint on my clothes.

2. We do nothing, time passes and then one day, you wake up and find out that they delivered a nuke to NYC (or anywhere near you), and in NYC's case, AT LEAST HALF THE PEOPLE IN MY LIFE ARE DEAD, DEAD!!!

So, do we go in now and take a chance or do we wait until the next 9/11 and take the loss.

You decide. Oh no, wait, that's Pres. George Bush's decision. Do you think he has any pressure on him?

The man is being patient, what the fuck else can we do. France and Germany wont wake up until the United States gets hit again. And then it's too late.

But that's how it will go down. We wont do shit because of all the pussy bastards in germany, france and even here in the U.S. of A.

And when they do blow up NYC or another city, remember this thread. We have been warned, the warning was 9/11. I was there. Watching NYC burn. I don't want to ever see that happen again. But it will, because of France, Germany, and some of you fucking morons in the USA.

You say what?????

Hey, let's blow up some more shit, impoverish a country that we could have easily toppled IF WE WANTED TO 12 years ago, allow our soldiers to be killed on the battlefield, futher alienate ourselves from the world (isolationism NEVER EVER EVER worked), and truly show how hypocritical our country has become (we're less of a democracy than some NON-democratic countries) to the world. All because cokehead Bush can't get the economy back to where it should be. No wait, it is where it should be for his rich buddies. Everyone else gets fucked in the ass by his stupidity.

 

[chanmanfoo]

granby140- Yes we should question our government. But never should we talk the shit about it that we are now. If you do not like what our great nation is doing, then simply get the fuck out.

no offense my friend but this is a completely ignorant statement. just because you have been blinded by american ideology does not mean we all have. i suppose if our government found it in their best interest to re-enact the atlantic slave trade you would be first in line. i suppose that you thought the history book you read in high school (doubt you even read that) with the stories of communist vietnam being a threat to national security and our american way of life was all fact. or that christopher columbus was something of a liberator of people and land as opposed to a slave trader that ordered mass murders upon thousands of women and children. i am not a political dissident or against the american way of life but disappointed that so many people allow themselves to be brainwashed by popular belief, media, and our government. the mind is a terrible thing to waste and so far it sounds like you are wasting yours.
foo

 

[FreakMonster]

The UN is responsible for the lives of 500,000 Iraqi children? Yea...whatever...
Any harm that comes to the Iraqi people is a direct result of Saddam's actions. He cares nothing about his own people, just his desire to stay in power. He routinely executes members of other political parties who try to rise up against him. He is known to have killed 35 of his family members,some for not wanting to comply with him.
He rules with fear. He has the strength of the military. His own people are afraid of him. They are an oppressed people. They need to be liberated..

This is another lie by the Bush administration. Did anyone ask the Iraqi people if they wanted to be liberated? There will be no real democracy in Iraq after we invade. If and when we allow Iraq to have a civilian government it'll be appointed by the United States.
"Liberating Kuwait" was not as rewarding as those who took part in the world vs. Iraq war hoped. The economic prosperity which they were promised never actualized. Egypt, Turkey and various Gulf countries are suffocating under economic pressure, of which neither Iraqi President Saddam Hussein nor his alleged "Weapons of Mass Destruction" are factors.

Of course Freakmonster, you already know all this,Saddam is one of many tyrants, but the UN can only handle one of them at a time it seems...

True, It seems we are going after Iraq first because they are weak and will not put up much of a fight. Bush is scared to go after North Korea because he knows it will be a bloody outcome and this will not be good for his re-election.

And as far as your comparison of Iraq's actions to those of the US, Britain in the past....BIG DIFFERENCE..the US does not try to conquer other countries, nor control their own people with an iron fist. All they're trying to do is defend themselves and other nations from tyrants and terrorist groups. I think it's a noble cause.

No the US does not conquer other countries they just topple the current dictator and replace him with a puppet military dictator who only serves the US interests and not the peoples. Our military stays in these countries and dictates how the gov't should be run. Wouldn't you be pissed if China brought their army to the US, tried to tell us how we should run our country, and killed innocent civillians? You would probably hate them!!! Well thats how they feel about us. They HATE US because in country after country, our government has thwarted democracy, stifled freedom and trampled human rights. And that's why we're the target of terrorists.
People in Canada enjoy democracy, freedom and human rights. So do the people of Norway and Sweden. Have you heard of Canadian embassies being bombed? Or Norwegian, or Swedish?

This is not about politics/oil, but about freedom and security

Oil is only a small part of why we are going to war. We are going to war because:
1. It seems that only US officials believe that "taking Saddam out" is a good idea. The world however, has matured enough in the last 10 years to realize that Saddam is only an "evil figure" used by the US government to recalculate bad policies that no one approves of.
2. To protect Israel
3. To create permanent military bases in that country from which to control and dominate the Middle East, including neighboring Iran.
4. Bush and Cheney will be padding their bank accounts through the Carlyle Group and Hallliburton.
5. Saddam found a non-sanctioned way to stick it to us.
6. They hate us!!!!

 

[sergio]

Listen Freak. Believe whatever you want. Your anti US sentiment is clear.
Of course the Iraqi people want to be liberated, they live a meager existence, no economy to speak of,no infrastructure, no voice, have very few rights/opportunities, rely on the military for handouts of loafs of fuckin' bread.
These people would be envious of trailer parks and how good we have it here in the west.
Saddam is pouring every cent into a stronger military/arms and leaving nothing for his people, but an opportunity to join the military.
Obviously a nation under a dictatorship does not work and benefits very few. I believe there will never be world peace until there is democracy in every country. Democracy may not be the perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than any other.
You think the US interferes in other countries affairs for their own interests? Let me remind you that it takes millions of $ to send troops overseas and keep them there. Not to mention the billions of $ of foreign aid which they contribute yearly and get nothing in return except maybe better relations.
The US military do not occupy other countries to dictate anything. They are there to protect US embassies/embassadors, especially in hostile countries where there is political unrest.
China does have an embassy in the US, as all countries do, and the reason they don't have a military presence is because they know they are safe here.

But you're right , we should not have interfered in stopping Hitler from taking over Europe..that was a mistake.

This conversation is over.

 

[qkreflex]

hey i got 315 for 5 today on the bench no lie!new record for me

 

[FreakMonster]

Listen Freak. Believe whatever you want. Your anti US sentiment is clear.

That's funny!!! Every time someone like you is losing a debate you resort to their anti-US sentiment. I'm just telling it like it is. The US is obviously looking to become the world superpower for a long time by increasing it's military power.
Have you heard of the National Security Strategy? It's a document in which each administration outlines its approach to defending the country. It envisions the creation and enforcement of what they call a worldwide "Pax Americana," or American peace. To address the terrorism threat, the president's report lays out a newly aggressive military and foreign policy, embracing pre-emptive attack against perceived enemies. It speaks in blunt terms of what it calls "American internationalism," of ignoring international opinion if that suits U.S. interests. "The best defense is a good offense," the document asserts. So basically this is good for both of us. I'm not complaining here, I'm just telling you that all this may benefit us in the future. So I really don't see where your anti-US sentiment comments are coming from. And we are definitely not stopping with Iraq. Syria, Yemen, Iran, and hopefully Saudi Arabia are next on the list.

Of course the Iraqi people want to be liberated, they live a meager existence, no economy to speak of,no infrastructure, no voice, have very few rights/opportunities, rely on the military for handouts of loafs of fuckin' bread.
These people would be envious of trailer parks and how good we have it here in the west.

Wow you obviously know what the Iraqi people want since you asked them personally. LOL
This notion of “liberating” the people of Iraq is a people friendly way of justifying the war. A regime change in Baghdad is not part of any U.N. directive. We should ask ourselves, what right do we have to rip apart a country so we can establish a form of government that we like? We cannot assume that the people of Iraq are on their knees begging for us to bring them democracy. The people of Iraq could rise up on their own against Saddam Hussein.

You think the US interferes in other countries affairs for their own interests? Let me remind you that it takes millions of $ to send troops overseas and keep them there. Not to mention the billions of $ of foreign aid which they contribute yearly and get nothing in return except maybe better relations.
The US military do not occupy other countries to dictate anything. They are there to protect US embassies/embassadors, especially in hostile countries where there is political unrest.
China does have an embassy in the US, as all countries do, and the reason they don't have a military presence is because they know they are safe here.

But you're right , we should not have interfered in stopping Hitler from taking over Europe..that was a mistake.

This conversation is over.

The US interferes with other countries affairs all the time. This is not something new!! We did it in Iran when the U.S. Marines and the CIA deposed Mossadegh because he wanted to nationalize the oil industry. We replaced him with the Shah and armed, trained and paid his hated Savak national guard, which enslaved and brutalized the people of Iran -- all to protect the financial interests of our oil companies. Is it any wonder that there are people in Iran who hate us? We did it in Chile. We did it in Vietnam. More recently, we tried to do it in Iraq.
And, of course, how many times have we done it in Nicaragua and all the other banana republics of Latin America? Time after time we have ousted popular leaders who wanted the riches of the land to be shared by the people who worked it. We replaced them with murderous tyrants who would sell out their own people so the wealth of the land could be taken out by the likes of Domino Sugar, the United Fruit Company, Folgers and Chiquita Banana. I could go on and on but you probably get the point. If you think we are just there to protect our embassies then I suggest you stop watching CNN.

 

[liftsiron]

There are many american patroits in this thread myself included, but it is really hard to argue against the hard facts that Frackel and Freakmonster have presented, if your a thinking individual and not a zombie indoctrined to the religious right's false philosphy. I do not think that this country has ever faced the threats that it does today, except at the epitome of the cold war, i.e. Cuban crisis, nukes on our doorstep, I worry that our greatest threat is a small handful of our own hawk like leaders and not Saddam. I also think that N. Koerea poses far more of a menace than Iraq ever could. N. Koerea wants to start talks with the U.S. but Bush won't talk, what's up with that? Bush wants to send special forces into the Phillipines on combat search and destroy missions why, who are we protecting, who asked for help? In 1991 we had 500,000 troops in the gulf today we have 181,000 to go against a better perpared Iraqi force who may recieve alot of help from other muslim nations. All this shit defies reason.