Can you get super big and strong without the juice?!?

[1-dawg]

mjollnir

WHy would you say the "roid boys" don't have discipline?? I trained natural for a long time with pretty good results. I am no longer natural because I chose to goto another level -- does this really make me undisciplined. I train my ass off, just like i did before. I will tell you this, most guys that have never used think that roids will instantly make you strong. I use to think the same. Honestly, they work about 1/2 as good as you think. I will not lie and say they don't work, because they do. There are other guys on this board that can attest to this. They are not magic.

 

[b fold the truth]

1-dawg: Heck of a post!!!!

B True

 

[Grantsdu]

I do work hard in the gym but maybe i'm not working hard enough or maybe I'm just going at it in the wrong way. I have never tried Westside but there more I hear about it the more I want too. The only gains I have gained from lifting are huge pecks. I work the hell out of my arms but with little success. Yes, I have some mass there but nothing like my cheast. I don't know if i'm not eating right or what but somethings not right. I weighted 125 in high school my senior year. I have only gained 10 pounds 3 years later. Somethings wrong here!!!!

 

[brianmincher]

1-dawg,

you hit the nail on the head. I have said something similar on here before. Gear helps, but not nearly as much as a clean person thinks it does. I thought before that it was as simple as take the shot and turn into a freak. Not so.

mjollnir,

Discipline? Read my posts. Come train with me. Quit talking out of your ass about shit you don't understand.

B

 

[Deciever]

hmm you only gained 10 lbs in 3 years.. def. something wrong here.. maybe your undereating / over training? could be some hormonal imbalance if your training and eating correctly but not gaining. Most people experiance great gains in their first year... i for example went from 95lbs, 135 lbs in a yer and half (i attribute some of that weight to growing in height though). There could be many reasons why you have such little gains...

btw, did you strength go up , or did you relatively make no progress at all?

 

[Grantsdu]

My strgenth went way up!! I think i was benching somewhere around 220 or so but that wasn't pause. I pause 275 now. I haven't gained in my legs but I never work them. I didn't lift for about a year and a half after I graduated. The rest of the time I just kinda lifted on and off. I have been Lifting hard for about 7 to 8 months now. Maybe I just haven't given myself enough time to gain but I thought i would have put on weight by now!!!

 

[Deciever]

work your legs! once i started working my legs when i was still kinda new, i just packed on the weight.. and eat like a horse! Squats and deadlifts all the way for mass and strength..

and good job on your 275 pause.. and how much do you weigh? something like 145?

 

[Mjollnir]

Puh-leez

1-dawg,

you hit the nail on the head. I have said something similar on here before. Gear helps, but not nearly as much as a clean person thinks it does. I thought before that it was as simple as take the shot and turn into a freak. Not so.

mjollnir,

Discipline? Read my posts. Come train with me. Quit talking out of your ass about shit you don't understand.

B

I understand the use of steroids and the mindset behind quite well, thanks.

Maybe I should have been more clear:

Philosophically, from my viewpoint, taking steroids is the first step in divorcing oneself from the strictest discipline in lifting. It is no longer you and the weights, it becomes a partnership of (you+juice)+weights. All gains or 'progress' are the result of an (IMHO) unnecessary third party, not of you and you alone.

It is a breakdown, fundamentally, in mental discipline, not necessarily the physical discipline required in any athletic endeavor. I have seen time and again the psychological dependance that develops in users of roids, and understand that it becomes a crutch and, eventually, an excuse.

Again, it's a philosophical difference: I prefer to see how strong/flexible/fast/whatever I can get without resorting to any drug. Others don't. That represents to me a lack of mental discipline.

YMMV

 

[brianmincher]

Let me take a wild shot in the dark here. You don't like bench shirts, and squat suits either.

Your comments about a lack of discipline are offensive. You don't know any of us on this board, but a lot of us know each other. There is not a more dedicated group of people on the planet. These guys sweat, bleed and puke for no money, no fame, and very little recognition. Read my post about benching within 2 weeks of leaving the hospital, I walked into the weightroom on a cane!!! You ever do that?

What numbers have you managed to put up against the weight all on your own by the way? And at what meet might the members of this board be able to see you post these numbers? And before you answer I don't care if you squat 200 or 800, I respect guys that bust their ass, whatever thier lifts are, but you are not showing respect to others, and I don't think that is too cool.

B

 

[Mjollnir]

Did you read what I wrote?

Let me take a wild shot in the dark here. You don't like bench shirts, and squat suits either.

I don't care about them one way or another as regards to the theme of this thread. Or wrist straps or wraps, for that matter. They are not consumed internally, and have no physiological interaction with the human body.

Your comments about a lack of discipline are offensive. You don't know any of us on this board, but a lot of us know each other.

Perhaps you missed the point: on a philosophical basis, I consider resorting to the consumption of steroids to indicate a lack of discipline. You don't have to agree with that, and if you find it 'offensive', perhaps your delicate sensibilities are a wee bit too finely tuned.

There is not a more dedicated group of people on the planet. These guys sweat, bleed and puke for no money, no fame, and very little recognition.

And? That's immaterial to the matter at hand.

Read my post about benching within 2 weeks of leaving the hospital, I walked into the weightroom on a cane!!! You ever do that?

No. I tend to try to train with a bit more reasonable expectations, and don't try to portray potentially foolish and harmful behavior as either admirable or wise.

What numbers have you managed to put up against the weight all on your own by the way?

6'3" 212lbs. Dead: 570 Squat: 545 Bench: can't, due to seperated shoulder that grew back poorly. I have never tried to find my 1RP max because I don't see the point.

And at what meet might the members of this board be able to see you post these numbers? And before you answer I don't care if you squat 200 or 800, I respect guys that bust their ass, whatever thier lifts are, but you are not showing respect to others, and I don't think that is too cool.

I don't compete other than against myself. But, again, you seem to be taking offense where there is none to take. I consider consumption of steroids to be a mental weakness, and, as such, I do not take them. You, quite clearly, do not consider it such, and can take them as you see fit. It really doesn't matter to me how much you bust your ass in training; if one resorts to the use of such chemical supplementation, one is already one step behind what I consider the ideal.

Let me put it this way. I respect people who, as you put it, bust their ass. I respect people who bust their asses and hit the juice less.