Benzodiazepines and gains?

[Lumberg]

Hey we all know alcohol can affect gains--it slows protein synthesis.

But do benzos do the same thing? I know they tend to relax the muscle so you shouldn't take them on training days until after you train but even then or on off days does it slow gains?

Or maybe it relaxes you and lets your body grow better because you're rested?

In reality the effect is probably trivial but just wondering if anybody has any solid info.

And yes I do have a script for them and I am not on at the time.

 

[Bulk King]

I don't think so, the are anti-catabolic as they suppress cortisol levels. They sure are great for battling the post cycle blues, prescription or not.

 

[The Terminator]

According to Anabolics 2002 valium (as well as other benzo's) are supposedly anti-cortisal agents. I think the groggy feeling they produce is not worth it imo, as they will slow down your training. But used responsibly (like before bedtime for sleep) then the sedative effect they prodcue could be beneficial. I sometimes take them if I take any ephedra too late in the afternoon...

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

According to Anabolics 2002 valium (as well as other benzo's) are supposedly anti-cortisal agents. I think the groggy feeling they produce is not worth it imo, as they will slow down your training. But used responsibly (like before bedtime for sleep) then the sedative effect they prodcue could be beneficial. I sometimes take them if I take any ephedra too late in the afternoon...

that is why i take my klonipin AFTER morning training and again in the afternoon. no slow down. i am tired the rest of the goddamn day.....but hey......i got a good workout. also, remember when i mentioned i had saw a few times that valium in particular raised GH levels. still not sure where it is. johnboy posted it a long while back.

 

[Juice Authority]

that is why i take my klonipin AFTER morning training and again in the afternoon. no slow down. i am tired the rest of the goddamn day.....but hey......i got a good workout. also, remember when i mentioned i had saw a few times that valium in particular raised GH levels. still not sure where it is. johnboy posted it a long while back.

What a bunch of bullshit this is! Great way to rationalize the use of "rec" drugs. Where do you come up with this shit?? Valium raises GH levels??? That's one for the books.

 

[Quadsweep]

What a bunch of bullshit this is! Great way to rationalize the use of "rec" drugs. Where do you come up with this shit?? Valium raises GH levels??? That's one for the books.

Well maybe if it kept you in stage 4 sleep longer where endo-HGH is released it would help maybe.

Quad

 

[Juice Authority]

Well maybe if it kept you in stage 4 sleep longer where endo-HGH is released it would help maybe.

Quad

That is true but valium and other sedatives merely help you get to REM sleep-like state (stage 1&2), which why when you wake up in the morning you feel unrested and groggy.

 

[cbeaks]

Quadsweep, do you feel that using valium the week before a contest to help with sleep could effect your vascularity or make you hold water? - cbeaks

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

look dickhead, i got you on my ignore list and see nothing you post, but saw what you said in the quotes. fuck you bitch, i use benzos for social anxiety and obssessive thoughts. you got a problem, i'll pay for your fucking ticket down here to FL, right hand to GOD, and beat the piss out of your punk ass. PM me your info and i'll have you a fucking ticket tonight and my address.

 

[Bulldog_10]

That is true but valium and other sedatives merely help you get to REM sleep-like state (stage 1&2), which why when you wake up in the morning you feel unrested and groggy.

I love how you bash the shit out of the big fed, but then when quad says basically the same thing...you back right off. not trying to be a dick, but it's just something i notice alot on most of the boards.

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

I love how you bash the shit out of the big fed, but then when quad says basically the same thing...you back right off. not trying to be a dick, but it's just something i notice alot on most of the boards.

exactly, calls me a drug addict for something that w/o alchohol (i don't drink) doesn't even make you high (sleepy and lethargic of all things actually).....then kisses a mods ass for saying the same thing i said. what a pussy ass little faggot. reason he needs his ass beat. and i'm just ready to do it for real, no bullshit. no one calls me a drug fucking addict when i have never done any drinking or smoking or rec drugs other than benzos (for a legit reason) in 31 fucking years. so what about it pussy??????

 

[Juice Authority]

look dickhead, i got you on my ignore list and see nothing you post, but saw what you said in the quotes. fuck you bitch, i use benzos for social anxiety and obssessive thoughts. you got a problem, i'll pay for your fucking ticket down here to FL, right hand to GOD, and beat the piss out of your punk ass. PM me your info and i'll have you a fucking ticket tonight and my address.

HA! I grew up in FL. I lived in Coral Gables and Ft. Lauderdale for years. I went to college at UM. I'd love to get back down there so I'll take you up on that offer.

 

[cbeaks]

That is true but valium and other sedatives merely help you get to REM sleep-like state (stage 1&2), which why when you wake up in the morning you feel unrested and groggy.

does ambien get you to REM sleep-like state?

 

[Juice Authority]

I love how you bash the shit out of the big fed, but then when quad says basically the same thing...you back right off. not trying to be a dick, but it's just something i notice alot on most of the boards.

I don't see how what Quad said resembles what Big Fed said. In fact my response to Quad was that valium doesn't work as The_Big_Moron was suggesting. Are you saying I was sucking up to Quad??? That's ridiculous. You bash the shit out of Big Fed as much as I do so it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Juice Authority]

does ambien get you to REM sleep-like state?

Ambien produces REM sleep but not a deep sleep as in stage 4. I feel groggy in the morning after I take Ambien.

 

[Bulldog_10]

I don't see how what Quad said resembles what Big Fed said. In fact my response to Quad was that valium doesn't work as The_Big_Moron was suggesting. Are you saying I was sucking up to Quad??? That's ridiculous. You bash the shit out of Big Fed as much as I do so it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

I saw that you disagreed with both of them...it was just the way you said it to Quad was very different from the way you said it to the fed...

The_Big_Fed is a little bitch though...so I guess I can't blame you.

 

[Juice Authority]

I saw that you disagreed with both of them...it was just the way you said it to Quad was very different from the way you said it to the fed...

The_Big_Fed is a little bitch though...so I guess I can't blame you.

To be honest with you I respect Quad so I have no reason to flame him. The_Big_Moron (Fed) is another story. He's a useless waste of air.

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

dude, your a big mouth pussy who kisses mods asses and try's to belittle people who know more than you who are not mods. your a bitch who needs an ass whooping plain and simple. like the pussy ass guy who told my 62 year old father "this aint his fucking land" when he told some kids to get off of there. tough guys. lets see how tough he is when i go down there tommorow and ask him to fuck with a 31 year old not an old man. your the same type, big mouth till you run into someone who puts your teeth down your throat. since you live here, bring it on down here ASAP and lets see whats up.

 

[Juice Authority]

dude, your a big mouth pussy who kisses mods asses and try's to belittle people who know more than you who are not mods. your a bitch who needs an ass whooping plain and simple. like the pussy ass guy who told my 62 year old father "this aint his fucking land" when he told some kids to get off of there. tough guys. lets see how tough he is when i go down there tommorow and ask him to fuck with a 31 year old not an old man. your the same type, big mouth till you run into someone who puts your teeth down your throat. since you live here, bring it on down here ASAP and lets see whats up.

Look at you! On your own admission you're a 31 year old man who wants to brawl with someone you've never met that lives clear across the country (CA). I used to live in FL, not anymore. read what I said moron!

 

[Bulldog_10]

Look at you! On your own admission you're a 31 year old man who wants to brawl with someone you've never met that lives clear across the country (CA). I used to live in FL, not anymore. read what I said moron!

haha...good edit, maybe nobody saw it.

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

31 year old man who won't take shit from some punk ass 32 year old yahoo from the internet who acts like a 12 year old. no shit from no one is my policy. dealing with me OR my family.

 

[Juice Authority]

haha...good edit, maybe nobody saw it.

I don't know. Fed doesn't know how to read so he probably didn't catch.

 

[Juice Authority]

31 year old man who won't take shit from some punk ass 32 year old yahoo from the internet who acts like a 12 year old. no shit from no one is my policy. dealing with me OR my family.

You must be some moonshine drinking, tabacco chewing uneducated moron to say some of the ridiculous things you say. I'm 30 years old so you got a year on me but your maturity level is on par with my 14 month old son. Get a life fool!

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

lol. lets do a poll on that. who is more immature. i'll kiss your ass if i lose.

 

[Juice Authority]

lol. lets do a poll on that. who is more immature. i'll kiss your ass if i lose.

Go ahead, start a poll. All that would do is prove my point.

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

so long as mods allow it on the Anabolic board only where everyone knows both of us, no problem. doubt that will be approved. your the one who gets banned everywhere you go like steroidology for being an immature asshole.

 

[Juice Authority]

so long as mods allow it on the Anabolic board only where everyone knows both of us, no problem. doubt that will be approved. your the one who gets banned everywhere you go like steroidology for being an immature asshole.

You've been posting here for less than a month and already you have over 900 posts. What does that tell you? You spend all your time here because you have no other life and the only people that pay attention to you are people passing time on this board with nothing better to do.

Since you spend so much time here why don't you fork out some dollars and upgrade your membership to support the site. Nah, you're too much of a cheap bastard for that.

 

[Bulldog_10]

You've been posting here for less than a month and already you have over 900 posts. What does that tell you? You spend all your time here because you have no other life and the only people the pay attention to you are people passing time on this board with nothing better to do.

Since you spend so much time here why don't you fork out some dollars and upgrade your membership to support the site. Nah, you're too much of a cheap bastard for that.

HAHAHA...he's got ya there W...err, I mean Fr...err, I mean FED!

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

HAHAHA...he's got ya there W...err, I mean Fr...err, I mean FED!

fuck you cheap asshole.

jealous of my posts? how pathetic. i work over 50 hours a week, and w/o 4 times a week etc etc. so i have plenty to do. i for one, other than you, like to help people out not act like a jerkoff. hence more posts than you. insulting people and being an asshole only gets you so many posts......so maybe give out some pertinent help to the members you are so concerned about. i don't pay dues to a site when i don't believe in many of the mods. they will backstab you on here, only a small percentage....but hey, why pay when if you piss off the wrong mod on a power trip you get banned. you are a loser, plain and simple. no one likes you, and i get karma and PM's everyday for helping out and "being funny". you get nothing for being a cockhead. pathetic bitch if there ever was one.

 

[Juice Authority]

fuck you cheap asshole.

jealous of my posts? how pathetic. i work over 50 hours a week, and w/o 4 times a week etc etc. so i have plenty to do. i for one, other than you, like to help people out not act like a jerkoff. hence more posts than you. insulting people and being an asshole only gets you so many posts......so maybe give out some pertinent help to the members you are so concerned about. i don't pay dues to a site when i don't believe in many of the mods. they will backstab you on here, only a small percentage....but hey, why pay when if you piss off the wrong mod on a power trip you get banned. you are a loser, plain and simple. no one likes you, and i get karma and PM's everyday for helping out and "being funny". you get nothing for being a cockhead. pathetic bitch if there ever was one.

I give you about another two weeks before the Mods here get sick of your shit and ban your ass. If you're still here by the end of June I'll be shocked. Your advice is worthless because none of it is ever backed up with facts and for the most part it's pure speculation that is usually wrong and counter-productive.

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

look who's fuckin talking....mr banned himself. lets see how long your bullshit act lasts. lol. i'll be saying c-ya later in a few weeks i am sure since you contribute nothing and i do. asshole.

 

[Juice Authority]

look who's fuckin talking....mr banned himself. lets see how long your bullshit act lasts. lol. i'll be saying c-ya later in a few weeks i am sure since you contribute nothing and i do. asshole.

I at least support the site. All you do is talk shit and blow hot air. You think people find you humorous but the sad thing is that people are laughing at you, not with you.

 

[THE_BIG_FED]

ok your right. lol. i'll make sure to keep you on the ignore list and please no one quote this idiot again so i see it, thanks!

 

[Bulldog_10]

I at least support the site. All you do is talk shit and blow hot air. You think people find you humorous but the sad thing is that people are laughing at you, not with you.

We all know that the big fed is an asshole...no need to point it out.

 

[mac83]

if you're being prescribed these meds because you need them, then why are you even asking? if you thought they might hinder gains would you not take them? if you thought they'd help would you misuse your medication? if you need your medication you should take it either way, discussing this will only lead to some jackass kids reading this and using it to rationalise using these drugs. benzo's are pretty damn addictive, and if you don't need them to treat a condition that you have you shouldn't be taking them.. if you're that hard up to gain another problem or two then maybe you should focus on other things that maybe holding you back, not looking to revolve your recommended medication around a schedule that might help your gains.. for a bunch of 30 yr old men, there sure are a lot of internet tough guys around here that act like they are stuck in adolescence.

 

[Juice Authority]

if you're being prescribed these meds because you need them, then why are you even asking? if you thought they might hinder gains would you not take them? if you thought they'd help would you misuse your medication? if you need your medication you should take it either way, discussing this will only lead to some jackass kids reading this and using it to rationalise using these drugs. benzo's are pretty damn addictive, and if you don't need them to treat a condition that you have you shouldn't be taking them.. if you're that hard up to gain another problem or two then maybe you should focus on other things that maybe holding you back, not looking to revolve your recommended medication around a schedule that might help your gains.. for a bunch of 30 yr old men, there sure are a lot of internet tough guys around here that act like they are stuck in adolescence.

Very good points. Disputing the logic behind this or lack thereof is what caused all this back and forth nonsense in the first place.

 

[RADAR]

(sigh)

 

[pharmguy]

Benzo's do actually interfere with REM sleep. One of the advantages of the new selective benzo agonists like ambien and sonata is that they do not interefere with REM and actually cause more REM sleep.

 

[cbeaks]

Benzo's do actually interfere with REM sleep. One of the advantages of the new selective benzo agonists like ambien and sonata is that they do not interefere with REM and actually cause more REM sleep.

do you know if seroquil has the same effect on REM sleep like you say ambien and sonata do? - cbeaks

 

[Lumberg]

if you're being prescribed these meds because you need them, then why are you even asking? if you thought they might hinder gains would you not take them? if you thought they'd help would you misuse your medication? if you need your medication you should take it either way, discussing this will only lead to some jackass kids reading this and using it to rationalise using these drugs. benzo's are pretty damn addictive, and if you don't need them to treat a condition that you have you shouldn't be taking them.. if you're that hard up to gain another problem or two then maybe you should focus on other things that maybe holding you back, not looking to revolve your recommended medication around a schedule that might help your gains.. for a bunch of 30 yr old men, there sure are a lot of internet tough guys around here that act like they are stuck in adolescence.

Thanks for the perspective.

I noticed that If I have taken Ativan earlier in the day I can get say 3 reps with a weight I might normally get 5 with on deadlift. But some of my other lifts were on par with before.

Ativan is such good shit though, it's scary. It works much better than Sonata IMO to induce sleep. I have taken 40 mg Sonata before and not ben able to fall asleep. 1.5mg Ativan and lights out!

You're right, I do feel groggy in the morning, I thought that was due to the stuff still being in my system after 10 hours but I guess the other explanation makes more sense.

I am going to ask the doc about Xyrem the next time I go. The instructions are HARD CORE:

Sit on your bed and prepare two doses. Set your alarm for 2 hours in the future. Take one dose and lie right down. When the alarm goes off take the second dose. They specifically warn not to take the shit if you away from your bed or especially if you are standing up. It sounds like some hardcore shit.

And yes I know it is GHB.

 

[pharmguy]

do you know if seroquil has the same effect on REM sleep like you say ambien and sonata do? - cbeaks

I actually take seroquil for sleep. But from what I understand, It does interfere with REM sleep. I dont take ambien/sonata because I have a long-standing insomnia and these 2 are only for short term probs. They are also addictive and cause tolerance. I have been taking seroquil for like 2 years. Seroquil or benzos wont prevent REM sleep, but they do interefere with it.

 

[Lumberg]

do you know if seroquil has the same effect on REM sleep like you say ambien and sonata do? - cbeaks

I actually take seroquil for sleep. But from what I understand, It does interfere with REM sleep. I dont take ambien/sonata because I have a long-standing insomnia and these 2 are only for short term probs. They are also addictive and cause tolerance. I have been taking seroquil for like 2 years. Seroquil or benzos wont prevent REM sleep, but they do interefere with it.

Dude that shit causes TS, man. I would stay away from long-term use for sure.

 

[Lumberg]

Dude that shit causes TS, man. I would stay away from long-term use for sure.

I meant to say TD. That's some scary shit.

 

[pharmguy]

Whats TD?

 

[cbeaks]

yeah man, what the hell is TD? Are you talking about seroquil? - cbeaks

 

[pharmguy]

I have been prescribed seroquil by a very knowledgeable MD/PHD, I think he may know a bit more than Lumberg. I have had no serious side effects except munchies and morning tiredness.

 

[BrothaBill]

Benzodiazepines although similar to alcohol depressant effects do not present the same problems to the system as alcohol so b/c same receptors are hit they are in noway related as far as physiological side effects. Other side effects would be noted, but that it specific to the benzos, it can cause feelings of mild depression and loss of motivation in some- describes as "feeling washed out". This obvious can effect motivation which can lead to decline in performance.

 

[Lumberg]

TD stands for tarditive dyskenesia. that means your tongue, hands, eyes, etc, start to shake and you can't control them right.

if you don't believe me look it up bro, most "major" tranquilizers which are now termed antipsychotics have this unfortunate side effect.

 

[pharmguy]

Tartitive dyskinesia is a temporary side effect that the older phentohiazines had . The newer ones rarely report and it is only in high doses and goes away when the drug wears off

 

[Lumberg]

Tartitive dyskinesia is a temporary side effect that the older phentohiazines had . The newer ones rarely report and it is only in high doses and goes away when the drug wears off

http://health.yahoo.com//health/drugs/203124/precaution.html

I quote from the actual literature for this particular drug:

Tardive dyskinesia (a movement disorder) may occur and may not go away after you stop using the medicine. Signs of tardive dyskinesia include fine, worm-like movements of the tongue, or other uncontrolled movements of the mouth, tongue, cheeks, jaw, or arms and legs.

 

[BrothaBill]

http://health.yahoo.com//health/drugs/203124/precaution.html

I quote from the actual literature for this particular drug:

Tardive dyskinesia (a movement disorder) may occur and may not go away after you stop using the medicine. Signs of tardive dyskinesia include fine, worm-like movements of the tongue, or other uncontrolled movements of the mouth, tongue, cheeks, jaw, or arms and legs.

Yeah, but anyone that works with medicines knows that those side effects lists provided for meds are notoriously overinclusive for liability reasons.

 

[pharmguy]

Yeah, but anyone that works with medicines knows that those side effects lists provided for meds are notoriously overinclusive for liability reasons

Thank you

 

[PBR]

valium is a poor stimulator for GH release.....Lorazepam 50mg aka Seresta, aka oxazepan. Nitrazepam 50mg....Tamazipam- which will linger the next day.....another possibility is a good hypnotic which puts you to sleep and wears off once you are is Zopiclone...this is non-addictive....when using Benzos you should limit usage to 2 or 3 x week to avoid dependence.....risky stuff, benzos- Iam not recommending anything , just passing along text...have experimented with them.....would not tell anyone to use such products.....be careful.

 

[Lumberg]

valium is a poor stimulator for GH release.....Lorazepam 50mg aka Seresta, aka oxazepan. Nitrazepam 50mg....Tamazipam- which will linger the next day.....another possibility is a good hypnotic which puts you to sleep and wears off once you are is Zopiclone...this is non-addictive....when using Benzos you should limit usage to 2 or 3 x week to avoid dependence.....risky stuff, benzos- Iam not recommending anything , just passing along text...have experimented with them.....would not tell anyone to use such products.....be careful.

Lorazepam is more commonly called Ativan in the US. And seeing as one 0.5 mg pill makes me feel loopy, I have a feeling that taking 50 mgs at once is a pretty bad idea. The same probably goes for any benzodiazepine.

Hm... Zoplicone looks interesting. Wonder if it is availabel here. The Sonata is just not doing it for me.

 

[cbeaks]

I have 2 weeks left before my contest. As most competitors know, it can be difficult to sleep towards the end. I have access to valium, ambien and seroquil would it be wise to do something like this: first five days take a valium before bed, next 5 take a seroquil before bed and last 4-5 take ambien before bed. Would this help to avoid the becomeing addicted to these drugs and keep my body from getting use to the drug? - cbeaks

 

[pharmguy]

Would this help to avoid the becomeing addicted to these drugs and keep my body from getting use to the drug? - cbeaks

This will help avoid tolerance. Addiction is left to the individual. But it is a good idea. Cross addiction can occur between ambien and valium, and ambien gives the best quality sleep. so I like your schedule. Seroquil doesnt give you a buzz so if that is what you are looking for you will be disappointed. 50 mgs seroquil is all you should need. take it 1 hour before you plan to goto bed

 

[pharmguy]

Lorazepam is more commonly called Ativan in the US. And seeing as one 0.5 mg pill makes me feel loopy, I have a feeling that taking 50 mgs at once is a pretty bad idea. The same probably goes for any benzodiazepine.

Yeah, 50 mgs is probably close to a lethal dose. I have an addiction psychiatrist friend who runs a drug treatment center. He says benzos are worse then heroin in many ways.

valium is a poor stimulator for GH release.....Lorazepam 50mg aka Seresta, aka oxazepan. Nitrazepam 50mg....Tamazipam- which will linger the next day.....

Benzos should not be taken for GH release. The only drug proven to cause significant release of growth hormone is catapres(clonidine) which is an anti hypertensive, now that will help you sleep also. It is safe but also has drawbacks. it can make you tired the next day. It also causes tolerance.

 

[cbeaks]

Thanks Pharmguy. I could care less about a buzz. I am just doing it for the sleep. If I don't get enough sleep I can lose muscle very easily. I don't seem to be the type that could easily get addicted. I used some ambien last year and as soon as the contest was over and I was eating normal I was sleeping like a baby without any sleep aids. - cbeaks

 

[Lumberg]

Lorazepam is more commonly called Ativan in the US. And seeing as one 0.5 mg pill makes me feel loopy, I have a feeling that taking 50 mgs at once is a pretty bad idea. The same probably goes for any benzodiazepine.

Yeah, 50 mgs is probably close to a lethal dose. I have an addiction psychiatrist friend who runs a drug treatment center. He says benzos are worse then heroin in many ways.



Benzos should not be taken for GH release. The only drug proven to cause significant release of growth hormone is catapres(clonidine) which is an anti hypertensive, now that will help you sleep also. It is safe but also has drawbacks. it can make you tired the next day. It also causes tolerance.

don't forget about GHB now AKA Xyrem!