Turinabol+ Anavar ULTIMATE STACK!

[Ross]

I have run Oral-Turinabol by ITSELF for a duration of 7 weeks at 40-60mgs and gained almost 15lbs, with a mild but appreciable strength increase, and INSANE vascularity--even moreso than var--which I have also run solo. I am currently STACKING the TWO.....

TBOL increases LIBIDO and APPETITIE, whereas VAR DECREASES BOTH. Ergo, TBOL dose is Maintained higher than the VAR dose throughout the cycle to counteract these sides.

I am currently running a LOW dose TBOL/VAR STACK: I will NOT be increasing calories until week 4, as this is not a SUPER BULK. I am currrently 200lbs, 9% BF, and I want to be at 200-205, 5%BF. Looking to get into semi-contest shape, although i will not be competeing.

Week1: VAR 20mgs/TBOL 30mgs ***Extremely LOW dose to ASSESS contraindications***
Week2: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 40mgs *VAR Never EXCEEDS 30mgs, due to it's negative affect on LIBIDO.
Week3: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 50mgs
Week4: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 60mgs
Week5: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 60mgs
Week6: VAR 30mgs/TBOL 50mgs
Week7: VAR 30mgs
Week8: VAR 30mgs


The purpose of VAR in this cycle is strictly for Strength, hardness, and vascularity. Any contribution that VAR makes to my LBM gains will be accepted, but not expected. TBOL is the BASE of the stack. It increases Libido, Appetite, mood, and FREE test levels. (kind of like taking an oral form of test that doesn't aromatize or alpha-5 reduce!) It is also teh ANABOLIC component--it is the muscle builder. However, I also expect it to produce remarkable synergy with the VAR, producing a VERY dense, lean, shredded look.
I ONLY USE Tribestan Tribulus Terrestris extract (or TRIBEX) and A POTENT Eurycoma Longfolia(Tongkat ALi) Extract for PCT and I have reovered SWIFTLY BOTH times. These are both NON-Aromatizing steroids, one reason why HPTA function can be mostly maintained even during cycle.

PS, just starting posting here--though I am an active member on many other boards. Figured I would take the free Platinum membership week trial....

 

[Ross]

It should be used IN PLACE of Testosterone as a BASE for almost all cycles.

As a BASE compound, we are looking for simply an ANABOLIC component, coupled with a propensity to INCREASE sexual function, libido, and appetite, as to counteract the sides of having low natural test production whilst on cycle. Oral Turinabol also produces great synergy with any compound, as its chemical structure (Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone) is merely a modified testosterone--with an inability to convert to either Estrogen or DHT.

Oral Turinabol also BINDS STRONGLY to SHBG(Sex Hormone Binding Globulin), DRASTICALLY increasing FREE testosterone in the body. (One single 40mg dose= 4.0 X increase) Both, women and men report increased libido. Both times I have used it, I was very sexually active. Furthermore, having the characteristic of binding to SHBG--like WINNY, turinabol also increases the EFFECIACY of OTHER STEROIDS BEING ADMINISTERED!

Tbol as a Base.....Trust me...Much swifter recovery than TEST and NO SIDES.

 

[nishnish]

sorry, but this is wrong bro.

you will not find a better base for any cycle than test. this has been proven time and time again over many years.

tbol is a great drug, but to say it should be the replacement for test as a cycle base is inaccurate at best; otherwise every pro and his brother would be doing so.

actually after reading yoru post more thoroughly (which i should have done at first LOL) i see your reasons for selecting it as a base. for those purposes i would say that it could work as a base compund very well.

however, for all-out mass building, test MUST be incorporated as a base for best results.

 

[Mavafanculo]

Ross: while in the free P{lat period, you should put up a large avatar and enter a custom title (non-plats get a much smaller ava and no title) if you care.

on Tbol, whats your opinion based on your research and experience on hairloss? fact that it increases free test should make it a hair killer, but anecdotally its not.

 

[Ross]

Ross: while in the free P{lat period, you should put up a large avatar and enter a custom title (non-plats get a much smaller ava and no title) if you care.

on Tbol, whats your opinion based on your research and experience on hairloss? fact that it increases free test should make it a hair killer, but anecdotally its not.

NONONO...

You see.....INCREASING TOTAL TEST PRODUCTION would increase AROMATIZATION to estrogen and Alpha-5 reduction to DHT. HOWEVER--we are NOT increasing total T production--ONLY INCREASING FREE test LEVELS--TEST that is ALREADY in our body, simply UN-USABLE in it's BOUND form.

Hairloss is NO concern.


AS FOR TBOL as a BASE rather than TEST,....
If you are looking for a MILD cycle with MUCH LOWER side effects and more PERMANENT gains--TBOL over tewst EVERYday ALL day...

 

[Güclü_oglan]

what do you mean by permanent gains

 

[Indy]

As most of you guys here know I am a huge fan of var and the great affects on how the muscle looks, however it's pretty common to stay away from multiple orals from a liver standpoint. Now I have read peoples posts on T-bol but have never tried it, nor investigated as of yet for that matter. I would assume since it's an oral it's 17-aa also and even though var is very mild compared to most orals and doesn't seem to mess with my liver value much, isn't running both of these together still looking for possible complications down the road ??? I would be interested if you are stacking these to post your blood test results as I do... like to see if it effects your liver much.

 

[Mavafanculo]

NONONO...
You see.....INCREASING TOTAL TEST PRODUCTION would increase AROMATIZATION to estrogen and Alpha-5 reduction to DHT. HOWEVER--we are NOT increasing total T production--ONLY INCREASING FREE test LEVELS--TEST that is ALREADY in our body, simply UN-USABLE in it's BOUND form.

Hairloss is NO concern.
...

I don't have any studies to cite, but my impression was that test bound by shbg was essentially biologically inactive FOR ALL PURPOSES, meaning no anabolism, not able to be aromatized, not able to be 5-alpha-reduced. wrapped in a condom as it were.

once you remove the condom (de-couple from shbg) and make it available for use, as FREE test, it will then take ALL its various pathways including producing DHT.

If thats not the case, I'd appreciate seeing some literature/studies/etc.

 

[Ross]

Free Testosterone is IMMEDIATELY available for anabolism, as it is already tissue saturated.

Excess testosterone is in ciculation, enabling it to MORE READILY convert to it's metabolites.


As for liver safety--Both are 17-AA so keeping the cycle at 8 weeks maximum is just precautionary. Although anavar should be able to be used to much longer durations. Use liver protectants as always.

 

[dali]

tbol is a fad, it will pass.

Test/Deca/dbol will never go away

 

[mendo]

Personally, I think the ultimate stack is Tbol plus a couple of good injectables....like test+deca. No way Tbol/Var is better than Tbol/test/deca . I like Tbol...but its not a good BASE for a cycle IMO.

 

[TraxZBT]

hmmm test/tbol would look more synergistic..

 

[mendo]

hmmm test/tbol would look more synergistic..

I'm in the middle of that cycle right now...I love it. 50mg tbol ED wk 1-4, 500mg test-e wk 1-12.

 

[krishna]

8 weeks is enought to do serious damage to your liver, especially if stacking orals. Test has other hormonal functioning in the body which no AAS can mimic. This is why test should be your base as NOTHING ELSE CAN REPLACE IT!

 

[Indy]

tbol is a fad, it will pass.

Test/Deca/dbol will never go away

Oh Bruce is going to write a novel in this post when he sees this

 

[Indy]

8 weeks is enought to do serious damage to your liver, especially if stacking orals. Test has other hormonal functioning in the body which no AAS can mimic. This is why test should be your base as NOTHING ELSE CAN REPLACE IT!

Great post, sums it up, K to you

 

[marshallmadman]

Oh Bruce is going to write a novel in this post when he sees this

Where has that puny little 6'2" lit fuse been, anyway?

 

[Ross]

Let me Clarify....

I don't use TESTOSTERONE....I am a model, so I am unwilling to risk any chance of gyno, hairloss, or acne of ANY KIND.

I am also a BODYBUILDER....

I see the use for only Anavar, Primo, Tbol, and EQ. I have had REMARKABLE results that have been, as far as I can see, PERMENENT.

For those with athletic goals, or maybe even those unwilling to risk certain side-effects based on genetics, TBOL is a BASE--and a great one.

 

[Ross]

8 weeks is enought to do serious damage to your liver, especially if stacking orals. Test has other hormonal functioning in the body which no AAS can mimic. This is why test should be your base as NOTHING ELSE CAN REPLACE IT!

I must humbly disagree...

I have had my liver values checked after both VAR and TBOL cycles, and I was perfect. I use Liv52 and Milk Thristle.

Its always safest to check your values on a consistant basis..

 

[marshallmadman]

All I know is that I'm getting really sick and tired of the necrosis that I experience from injecting UG gear that has high BA content. I have pits in the sweeps of both thighs that are about half a golfball deep when my leg is flexed. I'm not really interested in continuing on that path to "see what happens".
I am seriously considering nothing but oral cycles in the future. It will take a little more monitoring of my liver, but I think I will suffer less test flu, sore injection sites, and other bullshit.

 

[Mavafanculo]

8 weeks is enought to do serious damage to your liver, especially if stacking orals. Test has other hormonal functioning in the body which no AAS can mimic. This is why test should be your base as NOTHING ELSE CAN REPLACE IT!

on a side note here, assumming ast/alt numbers are low, any problem continuing on with the orals past the 6 or 8 week norm?? I just got clean liver panal back (right in the middle of normal range) after 8 weeks 60 mg BD dbol, and want to continue using dbol with the test/npp (switching to naposims).

 

[Ross]

ALSO....Using TESTOSTERONE(THE PRIMARY SEX HORMONE!!) in supraphysiological dosages is never safe--thus, anytime you use test, you are essentially going through puberty again:and again....and again.

Stick with testosterone derivatives--synthetic androgens that have anabolic/androgenic activity, though not NEARLY as much so as test. Your body has steroid receptors and knows EXACTLY what to do with each of these unique chemicals. Furthermore, the pituiatry and the testes are not as severely influenced with these more mild androgens, so gains are always more permenent.

THO, TEST IS KING--for MASS....we must never forget that...
and maybe TREN....

 

[hammercurls]

I Want To Hear More........

 

[krishna]

If you use any AAS, your endogenous test production will be shut down and you will have very low test levels. Considering that test serves other purposes in the body contributing to overall general health, it is wise to always include at least a minimal dose of test.

As far as the liver is concerned, I didn't say that it would screw it up, I said that it could. Stacking orals greatly increases the risk of damaging your liver. Liver damage can happen very quickly and suddenly with oral steroids, so just because your liver values are fine after 8 weeks, doesn't mean you're not going to get it. In fact, your at a greater risk the longer you go.

 

[Indy]

Where has that puny little 6'2" lit fuse been, anyway?

Been wondering the same thing, not like him to keep quiet, that's for sure..

 

[Ross]

If you use any AAS, your endogenous test production will be shut down and you will have very low test levels. Considering that test serves other purposes in the body contributing to overall general health, it is wise to always include at least a minimal dose of test.

As far as the liver is concerned, I didn't say that it would screw it up, I said that it could. Stacking orals greatly increases the risk of damaging your liver. Liver damage can happen very quickly and suddenly with oral steroids, so just because your liver values are fine after 8 weeks, doesn't mean you're not going to get it. In fact, your at a greater risk the longer you go.

This is not true. Anavar , primo, tbol, will not shut you down--they will LOWER T-CONCENTRATIONS--not PITUAITARY/Testicular shutdown--as is the case with TESTOSTERONE, Trenbolone, and Anadrol.

Furthermore, TEST does not serve a purpose to overall general HEALTH--in Supraphysiological doses. THE testes produce 10mgs of test a day if that. Who shoots 10mgs as a REPLACEMENT dose? No one--anything over 10mg is SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL, therefore SUPERFLUOUS to add to a MILD cycle, as it wll only mess things up.

 

[krishna]

Var, primo, and tbol WILL shut you down, and YES test still serves it's hormonal health functioning in greater doses, although it is more exaggerated.

 

[mendo]

Yes Var, Primo, and Tbol will all shut you down. Krishna is right. By shut down...we mean they cause your testes to respond to excess androgens by stopping production of testosterone completely... Although they are milder than many AAS...these will shut you down at moderate dosages. It is true that you can recover your test production quicker from a cycle of one of these only, compared to a stack with lots of androgenic injectables.

 

[Ross]

Var, primo, and tbol WILL shut you down, and YES test still serves it's hormonal health functioning in greater doses, although it is more exaggerated.

Nope

Anavar won't shut you down, but it can suppress you.


Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.
The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG.

Endocrine Unit, Middlesex Hospital, London, UK.

OBJECTIVE: We studied the effects of oxandrolone on serum concentrations of LH, FSH, testosterone, GH, SHBG, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty. DESIGN: Ten boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty, mean age 13.8 years (range 12.4-15.5) were studied. Twenty-four-hour serum concentration profiles of GH, LH and FSH were constructed by drawing blood samples at 20-minute intervals. Three study occasions over a period of 6 months were chosen to assess hormone concentrations before, during and 6 weeks after a 3-month course of oxandrolone (2.5 mg once daily) therapy. RESULTS: Growth velocity increased during oxandrolone treatment and stayed higher after therapy (pre 3.9 +/- 0.5; on 6.3 +/- 0.8; post 6.4 +/- 0.9 cm/year (mean +/- SEM) two way ANOVA, F = 5.3, P = 0.02). Oxandrolone had androgenic effects, suppressing mean serum LH concentrations from 1.7 +/- 0.3 to 1.1 +/- 0.2 U/I and serum testosterone concentrations from 1.9 +/- 0.6 to 0.8 +/- 0.1 nmol/l. SHBG concentrations were also reduced from 130.9 +/- 14.6 to 30.7 +/- 7.3 nmol/l. Serum GH concentration fell slightly from 5.9 +/- 0.6 to 4.8 +/- 0.5 mU/l. After cessation of treatment, there was a significant 'rebound' in mean 24-hour serum LH (2.6 U/l +/- 0.4) and testosterone concentrations (3.2 +/- 0.9 nmol/l) but no change in serum GH concentrations. SHBG values also rose but not to the same extent as those observed before therapy (82.0 +/- 8.4 nmol/l). There were no statistically significant differences in serum concentrations of FSH, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin over the study period. In a stepwise multiple regression analysis of factors that might influence the growth rate observed, the 24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration and the treatment (on or off) with oxandrolone were the main influences. The relationship was described by the equation Height velocity = 0.69 (24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration)+1.70 (treatment regimen)+3.37 (adjusted R2 = 0.35, F = 8.39, P = 0.001). CONCLUSIONS: Oxandrolone has an androgenic action as shown by changes in serum LH, testosterone and SHBG concentrations and by the lack of effect on FSH. No effect of oxandrolone on the GH axis was documented. We suggest that the growth promoting effects of oxandrolone are related in part to the mild androgenic effects of the steroid and the growth acceleration following oxandrolone withdrawal may reflect increasing total serum testosterone concentrations and decreasing levels of SHBG and progress in puberty.

PMID: 8319371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

 

[nishnish]

All I know is that I'm getting really sick and tired of the necrosis that I experience from injecting UG gear that has high BA content. I have pits in the sweeps of both thighs that are about half a golfball deep when my leg is flexed. I'm not really interested in continuing on that path to "see what happens".
I am seriously considering nothing but oral cycles in the future. It will take a little more monitoring of my liver, but I think I will suffer less test flu, sore injection sites, and other bullshit.

yikes bro!!!!!

stop using that particular UG "brand"!!!!

seriously, there IS UG stuff out there that does not cause infections or necrosis...

necrosis- jesus bro stop using that shit!

 

[Ross]

And as for MOST NON-aromatizing androgens, with the exception or TREN, will be much lighter on the HPTA, and in MOST cases, not result in shutdown. (Var,Primo, Tbol)

NOW, there is a unique advantage to being SUPRESSED--but not shutdown....THE REBOUND!

Because test levels are supressed(but not Pituitarily/testiculry shutdown) as sooon as exogenous androgen administration ceases, a drastic increase in both free test and total T levels will occur and continue for ? time. This is known as a REBOUND, and it enables one to continue making solid gains into PCT.

 

[hammercurls]

looks like good discussion here. rosslovesmoney has alot of good info

 

[criffer]

Could you add a light dose of test (50-100mg/week) to that stack of oral Var and Tbol without affecting the HPTA too much....

 

[Ross]

Could you add a light dose of test (50-100mg/week) to that stack of oral Var and Tbol without affecting the HPTA too much....

Impossible.

Testosterone is the PRIMARY sex hormone--administration of only 25mgs/ED resulted in complete (PITUITARY/TESTICULAR ) shutdown. **Furthermore, "50-100mgs WEEKLY" will do NOTHING in terms of muscle gain!**
PATIENCE is key in this game. The tortouise always wins. When my friends were juicing in their teens, I was growing--SLOWER, but healthier, and waited until I was 21 to even think about juice. And by then, my base was solid, and it already looked as if I had juiced--although I hadn't.

Same applies with steroids. You can make tremendous gains on cycles and maintain less than half (if your LUCKY) of your gains, or do a MILD cycle with less side effects and more permenent gains. Take your time, you have plenty. More is not better. Try working OUT NATURALLY! After doing so fo 10 years, ALL I NEED is a little var, some tbol, and I grow like a weed.

Knowledge of exercise and NUTRITION is also KEY*

 

[terrapin]

Free Testosterone is IMMEDIATELY available for anabolism, as it is already tissue saturated.

Excess testosterone is in ciculation, enabling it to MORE READILY convert to it's metabolites.



So does this mean you could loose hair after a cycle with little or no PCT?

 

[gettinkrunkd]

Where has that puny little 6'2" lit fuse been, anyway?

bro, ive been wondering that too, i wonder what that fella is up to nowadays.

 

[Little Boy]

Impossible.

Testosterone is the PRIMARY sex hormone--administration of only 25mgs/ED resulted in complete (PITUITARY/TESTICULAR ) shutdown. **Furthermore, "50-100mgs WEEKLY" will do NOTHING in terms of muscle gain!**
PATIENCE is key in this game. The tortouise always wins. When my friends were juicing in their teens, I was growing--SLOWER, but healthier, and waited until I was 21 to even think about juice. And by then, my base was solid, and it already looked as if I had juiced--although I hadn't.

Same applies with steroids. You can make tremendous gains on cycles and maintain less than half (if your LUCKY) of your gains, or do a MILD cycle with less side effects and more permenent gains. Take your time, you have plenty. More is not better. Try working OUT NATURALLY! After doing so fo 10 years, ALL I NEED is a little var, some tbol, and I grow like a weed.

Knowledge of exercise and NUTRITION is also KEY*

Dude...your posts are annoying as hell, and you don't know shit.

Looks like SOMEBODY is AFRAID of injectables.

Try some test prop with arimidex stacked with TREN if you want a real cycle.

 

[stuck]

Nope
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.
The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG.

That study had 10 subjects who were 13 year old boys, getting 2.5 mgs of var a day, with no control group. I don't see how it can be applied to mature males taking 40-100mgs daily.

 

[Indy]

I've seen many studies on these drugs and I have to agree with everyone else, they will shut you down. Suppress is a nice way of saying shutdown, probably a more correct term, but at the end of the day it's the same thing when taking gear...var is my drug of choice, know lot's about it, and it DOES shut you down, might take longer, in larger doses, and easier to recover from, but it still does and I know it for a fact....blood tests prove it.

 

[leco3344unt]

test is KING. I use 250mgs everyweek all year round and I am still ripped with an anti e, plus I feel great.

 

[Indy]

looks like good discussion here. rosslovesmoney has alot of good info

He does have alot of good info, and it's a great discussion, but he also has inaccurate information, I have read the studies, done the blood tests, but with that said when it comes to this, many folks here know this stuff cold and Krishna is one in this thread not to argue with on the subject, I would like to hear Ulter or Jenetic chime in, that would be case closed for everyone I think.

 

[Mavafanculo]

test is KING. I use 250mgs everyweek all year round and I am still ripped with an anti e, plus I feel great.

250 is only slightly more than replacement dose, its basically HRT

 

[Ross]

AGAIN--Let me clarify for those who insist on being closed-minded...

I Don't use TESTOSTERONE--Test is GREAT for mass, I am just unwilling to risk gyno, hairloss, or acne, because I am a MODEL.

I am also a BODYBUILDER.

We are all different, we all have different goals.

However, I strongly feel, whatever your goal, get there the safest and most EFFECTIVE way possible--not the QUICKEST way possible.

I do enjoy discourse, so let's keep the knowledge flowing.

PS, as for BEING SHUTDOWN vs SUPRESSED--there is a HUGE difference. And the study demonstrating that VAR didn't even shutdown a 14 year old boy illustrates it's relative safety. AND--as I discussed earlier, being SUPRESSED actually confers a benefit post cycle, as a REBOUND in T-levels will occur upon cessation.

 

[Little Boy]

You're a bodybuilder?

When's your next competition?

 

[Zircon]

All I know is that I'm getting really sick and tired of the necrosis that I experience from injecting UG gear that has high BA content. I have pits in the sweeps of both thighs that are about half a golfball deep when my leg is flexed. I'm not really interested in continuing on that path to "see what happens".
I am seriously considering nothing but oral cycles in the future. It will take a little more monitoring of my liver, but I think I will suffer less test flu, sore injection sites, and other bullshit.

Hey dude, I feel your pain lol. Used BD prop for 2 weeks, holy shit, it's ridiculous. You say you get necrosis? I get what's like a huge lump, for 4-5 days it feels dead and swollen (no sensation), and then it comes back. But it is bad shit either way.

 

[Zircon]

I see some good points here.

I don't know whether suppression is greater with tbol 50mg ED than testosterone 50mg ED.

What I do know is after a 2 week cycle (I do test/tren, this will change to test/dbol/tbol), 8-10 days after stopping cycle, my natural testosterone shoots up, I feel great, and I gain well.

I think a lot of different ppl will react differently to orals as well. I woul dstill be very careful of them, as there may be long term side effects that you simply are not aware of. Remember, this stuff is not well documented at all, adn we're all working in the dark, taking a chance. Some ppl have elevated values in 2-3 weeks, others are fine even after 6 weeks. But somehow I think even normal liver values, may not tell the complete story of what the oral is doing to you, imho.

 

[Whacked]

You're a bodybuilder?

When's your next competition?

C'mon man....that's not fair.

Everyone on this damn board considers himself/herself a "bodybuilder"!!

The term is obviously used loosely here as we ALL essentiallly take our training serious enough to eat right/visit and research "bodybuilding" discussion forums and educate ourselves on the use of gear! Henceforth - we label ourselves "bodybuilders". Does this mean that Jay Cutler and Ronnie and all the rest were NOT officially "bodybuilders" until they stepped on stage for the first time? So what were they then ... "weightlifters"?

You get my point I'm sure. Recreational bb'ers / professional bb'ers / amateur bb'ers ... whatever. The goal is to BUILD a BETTER BODY. Some being more accomplished and/or more effective and/or more disciplined than others...yielding a better end result.

I don't compete -- I'm still a bodybuilder too

 

[BiG n Natural]

yikes bro!!!!!

stop using that particular UG "brand"!!!!

seriously, there IS UG stuff out there that does not cause infections or necrosis...

necrosis- jesus bro stop using that shit!

whats necrosis??

 

[Steve The Bluesman]

You're a bodybuilder?

When's your next competition?

It is stuff like this that will run off yet another new member that has good, albeit contradictory to the general consensus, info for the board.

We need members who do not just parrot what everyone else says. Ross has clearly done his due dilegence. We need to be respectful of each other and learn - test or Tbol, oral or inject, are not policy arguments - some people argue over it like they were republicans and democrats, for chrissake.

We are here for info. When I did my oral cycle last March, I got a lot of heat about how I wouldn't gain anything, my liver would fall out, and all that shit. Only after my results, did some people actually started believing that if would work.

Stick around, Ross. We need different points of view here.


Bluesman

 

[Ross]

It is stuff like this that will run off yet another new member that has good, albeit contradictory to the general consensus, info for the board.

We need members who do not just parrot what everyone else says. Ross has clearly done his due dilegence. We need to be respectful of each other and learn - test or Tbol, oral or inject, are not policy arguments - some people argue over it like they were republicans and democrats, for chrissake.

We are here for info. When I did my oral cycle last March, I got a lot of heat about how I wouldn't gain anything, my liver would fall out, and all that shit. Only after my results, did some people actually started believing that if would work.

Stick around, Ross. We need different points of view here.


Bluesman

AMEN! Lol..good group of guys over here.....it's appreciated...

As for Tbol--it will never replace TESTOSTERONE as a king of mass builders, but it is definitely a potent all-around steroid with great potential and relative safety over most other compounds. For those of us who choose not to use test, tbol makes a GREAT base, as it INCREASES libido, appetite, and MOOD, and has a minimal impact on HPTA. I do have a study floating around somewhere demonstrating only minimal impact on HPTA, and the rebound effect that ocurred 5 days later* still partially in german.

The purpose of this thread not to bash test--test is king.....but there ARE alternatives--safer, and I believe, more effective (in the LONG run) alternatives. For those seeking massive gains in the shortest time possible--DBOL, Decca, Tren, and test all have their places. However, For those seeking OPTIMAL results, the safest way possible, Tbol, Primo, Var, and EQ can all be used very effectively.

 

[BiG n Natural]

whats necrosis??

??

 

[Steve The Bluesman]

Necrosis means death of tissues, cells, or an organ in the body. This happens when not enough blood is supplied to the tissue, whether from injury, radiation, or chemicals. Once necrosis occurs, it is not reversible.

When substantial areas of tissue die due to a lack of blood supply, the condition is called gangrene.

It is not a good thing...If you really want to be grossed out, put it in google and check out the pictures. It will put you off lunch.


Bluesman

 

[marshallmadman]

My right leg looks horrible because it was easier to inject than my left. My left leg is okay, but the more ripped I get the worse it looks. There are a couple of other guys around here that have talked about the same problem. Perhaps they'll chime in. No more U.G. injectables for me, though.

 

[Ross]

You might not want to give up altogether on injectables. Primo and EQ are both PAINLESS, and very effective long-ester compounds. Run a Primo/Var, EQ/Tbol and you will be highly impressed.

 

[swordfish151]

whats the actuall medical term or the "look up" term for anavar?? i cant find the info on it.

 

[Ross]

The compound is called Oxandrolone.

Anavar is actually just an old brand name.

The new brands are : Oxanabol(BD), Oxandrin(BTG), Oxandrovet(Denkall), Oxavet(QV), Bonavar(Spa).

 

[nishnish]

You might not want to give up altogether on injectables. Primo and EQ are both PAINLESS, and very effective long-ester compounds. Run a Primo/Var, EQ/Tbol and you will be highly impressed.

primo injects painless???

i beg to differ on that one. that shit leaves a dull ache for a couple of days afterwards.

i used the schering joints back in the day, injecting 2cc at a time, and fucking hell that shit hurt

 

[Indy]

primo injects painless???

i beg to differ on that one. that shit leaves a dull ache for a couple of days afterwards.

i used the schering joints back in the day, injecting 2cc at a time, and fucking hell that shit hurt

I'm thinking you got some bunk Sherings then. Last cycle I did 1gram of primo/week and cycle before that 800mg/week and not once abit of pain....shering's are the shit.

 

[nishnish]

I'm thinking you got some bunk Sherings then. Last cycle I did 1gram of primo/week and cycle before that 800mg/week and not once abit of pain....shering's are the shit.

this was back in '96, and i got them from a very trusted source... they worked exactly as primo should too...

 

[marshallmadman]

You might not want to give up altogether on injectables. Primo and EQ are both PAINLESS, and very effective long-ester compounds. Run a Primo/Var, EQ/Tbol and you will be highly impressed.

I'm not worried so much about the pain. It's the eating away of chunks of muscle tissue that I'm worried about. It actually started with some of the most painless gear I've ever injected. (Homebrew Tren)

 

[Ross]

I'm not worried so much about the pain. It's the eating away of chunks of muscle tissue that I'm worried about. It actually started with some of the most painless gear I've ever injected. (Homebrew Tren)

Take it easy with the needles for a minute. Just be very cautious when running oral steroids; check you rliver values consistantly and be conservative with your dosages and durations. *(If you check my original VAR/TBOL cycle, I use very moderate doses, and I end the tbol 2 weeks prior to the var.)

PM me for some good cycle ideas.

 

[Indy]

this was back in '96, and i got them from a very trusted source... they worked exactly as primo should too...

Well rest assured bro, things are better today, primo oil is thick but other than that as harmless as water going in.

 

[criffer]

Ross, I Been reading alot about tbol lately, who are some reputable makers of tbol??

 

[Ross]

Ross, I Been reading alot about tbol lately, who are some reputable makers of tbol??

The ONLY legitamate source of real Oral-Turinabol(Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone)at the moment is British Dragon's "Turanabol". I have used it and have been utterly satisfied.

There are other "Alleged" tbols including IP and RSOC--neither of which I would trust.

Stick with BD--tried and true..

 

[criffer]

Ross, sent you a PM, K to you for good info

 

[Ross]

Ross, sent you a PM, K to you for good info

Critter...PM

 

[krishna]

Just curious to know what your mood is like on that stack? Have you ever done test? Have you always stacked orals? You look like you're in good shape. What's your cycle and work-out history?

 

[Ross]

Just curious to know what your mood is like on that stack? Have you ever done test? Have you always stacked orals? You look like you're in good shape. What's your cycle and work-out history?

My mood is SKY HIGH! Turinabol increases FREE Testosterone levels DRASTICALLY(by binding rapidly to SHBG) SO in a sense, you get all the benefits of test, without any chance of aromatization to estrogen or alpha-5 reduction to DHT. I am currently on day 4 of Var/Tbol and I am already harder and more pumped. Libido is actually higher than normal which I expect from TBOL. I am expecting to Drop about 3% BF (from 8% to 5%) and simultaneously gain around 8-12 lbs of muscle mass. My diet and training have been adjusted accordingly.

I am a model, so in my circumstance, I could never RISK using testosterone. However, in my years of training and experience, I have come to be grateful that I hadn't used test, as I see it causes more damage than progress(long-term). Not saying people shouldn't use TEST--Test has it's place for professional bodyuilders. However, there is no other circumstance in which I could see testosterone use being justified.....

 

[krishna]

Seems interested but I would be very worried about my liver.

 

[Bruce]

Oh Bruce is going to write a novel in this post when he sees this

ok tbol is going absolutely no where, i believe after my cycle i have converted over 15 people already and they love it. var and tbol are two compounds with no sides, tbol gives an increase in libido as well. both compounds give keepable gains and insane strength increase. if you can put on 10lbs of lean mass in 22 days on tbol i don't see how the hell it would fade. yes dbol/deca/test is gonna be around forever cause it is a great mass gainer. however, for those of us who don't want anti e's and insane pct. i am not knocking test deca its a great stack. the only reason tbol is going so nuts right now is because it was only made by germans and was off the market for a while, now that it is being mass produced again its gonna be the new winny. btw every source that i know of is out of bd tbol so that tells me something. i can go on for a lot longer if you like. pm me if you disagree. indy your the man

 

[Ross]

Seems interested but I would be very worried about my liver.

I don't use ONLY orals..I use injectables: Primo, EQ...and Orals: Tbol, Var...and usually combinations of both. My oral cycles never exceed 6 weeks (8 weeks for VAR), my dosages are always moderate, and I have my liver values checked consistantly. (I use Liv52 and Milk Thristle)...Nolva also helps the lipid profile tremendously.

Also, the minimum time OFF for an oral cycle is 4 weeks, and its BEST to yuse Time on= time off.

 

[krishna]

My mood is SKY HIGH! Turinabol increases FREE Testosterone levels DRASTICALLY(by binding rapidly to SHBG) SO in a sense, you get all the benefits of test, without any chance of aromatization to estrogen or alpha-5 reduction to DHT. I am currently on day 4 of Var/Tbol and I am already harder and more pumped. Libido is actually higher than normal which I expect from TBOL. I am expecting to Drop about 3% BF (from 8% to 5%) and simultaneously gain around 8-12 lbs of muscle mass. My diet and training have been adjusted accordingly.

I am a model, so in my circumstance, I could never RISK using testosterone. However, in my years of training and experience, I have come to be grateful that I hadn't used test, as I see it causes more damage than progress(long-term). Not saying people shouldn't use TEST--Test has it's place for professional bodyuilders. However, there is no other circumstance in which I could see testosterone use being justified.....

Can you explain how this increases free test?? You said it yourself, you're going to be suppressed. Just trying to understand you here. I have been interested in both of these compounds for some time, just have never considered them as a stack. And if it increases free test, won't this increase aromatization and reduction as well? You can't have one without the other.

 

[Ross]

Can you explain how this increases free test?? You said it yourself, you're going to be suppressed. Just trying to understand you here. I have been interested in both of these compounds for some time, just have never considered them as a stack. And if it increases free test, won't this increase aromatization and reduction as well? You can't have one without the other.

Schumann W.

Institut fur Mikrobiologie und experimentelle Therapie
(ZIMET), Jena.

Disposition and excretion of the anabolic steroid Oral-
Turinabol (1;4-chloro-17 alpha-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-17
beta-hydroxy-3-one) were investigated in male volunteers.
Following single p.o. and i.v. administration of the tritium-
labelled compound the plasma concentration courses of total
radioactivity (1 and 1-metabolites) and of the unchanged
parent drug as well as the urinary excretion were estimated.
From these data model independent pharmacokinetic parameters
based on statistical moments were calculated. 1 is almost
completely absorbed after p.o. administration of 10 mg per
volunteer. Peak concentrations of total radioactivity and of 1
in plasma were reached about 3 h p.a. Irregularities
observed in the plasma level profile following both p.o. and
i.v. administration of 1 are due to a marked enterohepatic
circulation. Orally given 1 is subject to a first-pass
effect, resulting in a diminished systematic availability.
The AUC-ratio of the unchanged drug and the total
radioactivity of 1 : 13 shows the predominance of metabolites
in plasma. After i.v. administration the disposition of
unchanged 1 was found biphasically with a terminal half-life
of 16 h. 1 and its metabolites are preferentially excreted
via the kidneys. The urinary total radioactivity represented
about 60% of the dose following both administrations. Due to
its affinity to SHBG 1 is able to compete for the protein
binding of testosterone, resulting in an increased plasma
level of non protein-bound testosterone.


Free testosterone is immediately available for anabolism as it is tissue saturated.

 

[leco3344unt]

let me guess your a model

 

[Ross]

let me guess your a model

Yes I am a FITNESS MODEL--5''10, 200lbs, 8%BF.

I am also a bodybuilder....

 

[criffer]

ross...PM bro, criffer

 

[hammercurls]

what would be a good dosage to start at? im also 5 10 and would like 15 pounds or so

 

[Bruce]

what are you looking to stack the two or just one. if you would like 10 lbs of lean mass in 22 days tbol at 40mg ed to 60mg ed. i did 60mg cause i had plenty and i said fuck it.

 

[Ross]

what would be a good dosage to start at? im also 5 10 and would like 15 pounds or so

Run it solo at 50mgs for 6 weeks. You will be very pleased.

 

[needtogetaas]

what are you looking to stack the two or just one. if you would like 10 lbs of lean mass in 22 days tbol at 40mg ed to 60mg ed. i did 60mg cause i had plenty and i said fuck it.

whats up bro were you bin.

 

[Bruce]

tbol is a fad, it will pass.

Test/Deca/dbol will never go away

lmfao. that is like saying that anavar is a fad. this stuff is spectacular. all the benefits of winny with no joint pain or sides. strength gains like var increased libido. as every profile about it says, once tbol hits the u.s bodybuilders are going to go nuts over it. well it has hit the u.s and i've converted over a dozen already that say they will never go back to winny or dbol.

 

[mendo]

Tbol increases free test because it binds better then natural test to receptors in muscle tissue...by out-competing with test, more test is freed up. Personally I suspect two things from this: 1) this is temporary, and once your natural test production has been supressed for awhile - your free test level is no longer elevated above baseline. This could partly explain why many of us only see results from Tbol for about 3 weeks or so. 2) Elevated free test from Tbol DOES increase the risk of DHT and Gyno sides...because the test can aromatize even though the Tbol can't. If this is true, then the only reason people aren't getting gyno from Tbol induced high test - is because it doesn't stay high for long enough... Just my 2 cents.

 

[Throw2Far]

what are you looking to stack the two or just one. if you would like 10 lbs of lean mass in 22 days tbol at 40mg ed to 60mg ed. i did 60mg cause i had plenty and i said fuck it.

What else can you ask for, 3 WEEKS = 10 LBS... Holy shit...

Yes I am a FITNESS MODEL--5''10, 200lbs, 8%BF.

I am also a bodybuilder....

Hell ya bro... Im a Tbol believer... my friend makes mad money off modeling and wants to enter the fitness industry... im going to tell him about ur stack...

 

[Ross]

Tbol increases free test because it binds better then natural test to receptors in muscle tissue...by out-competing with test, more test is freed up. Personally I suspect two things from this: 1) this is temporary, and once your natural test production has been supressed for awhile - your free test level is no longer elevated above baseline. This could partly explain why many of us only see results from Tbol for about 3 weeks or so. 2) Elevated free test from Tbol DOES increase the risk of DHT and Gyno sides...because the test can aromatize even though the Tbol can't. If this is true, then the only reason people aren't getting gyno from Tbol induced high test - is because it doesn't stay high for long enough... Just my 2 cents.

Schumann W.

Institut fur Mikrobiologie und experimentelle Therapie
(ZIMET), Jena.

Disposition and excretion of the anabolic steroid Oral-
Turinabol (1;4-chloro-17 alpha-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-17
beta-hydroxy-3-one) were investigated in male volunteers.
Following single p.o. and i.v. administration of the tritium-
labelled compound the plasma concentration courses of total
radioactivity (1 and 1-metabolites) and of the unchanged
parent drug as well as the urinary excretion were estimated.
From these data model independent pharmacokinetic parameters
based on statistical moments were calculated. 1 is almost
completely absorbed after p.o. administration of 10 mg per
volunteer. Peak concentrations of total radioactivity and of 1
in plasma were reached about 3 h p.a. Irregularities
observed in the plasma level profile following both p.o. and
i.v. administration of 1 are due to a marked enterohepatic
circulation. Orally given 1 is subject to a first-pass
effect, resulting in a diminished systematic availability.
The AUC-ratio of the unchanged drug and the total
radioactivity of 1 : 13 shows the predominance of metabolites
in plasma. After i.v. administration the disposition of
unchanged 1 was found biphasically with a terminal half-life
of 16 h. 1 and its metabolites are preferentially excreted
via the kidneys. The urinary total radioactivity represented
about 60% of the dose following both administrations. Due to
its affinity to SHBG 1 is able to compete for the protein
binding of testosterone, resulting in an increased plasma
level of non protein-bound testosterone.


FREE TEST plasma concentrations increase because Tbol rapidly binds to Sex Hormone Binding GLOBULIN. Free test is immediately available for anabolism as it is tissue saturated--whereas CIRCULATING testosterone can be metabolized.

There is ZERO chance of GYNO.

Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone

Not inherently, nor metabolically.

 

[Ross]

Furthermore, the drastic increase in free test levels in beneficial ESPECIALLY Post cycle, which is why the REBOUND occurs.

 

[mendo]

Schumann W.

Institut fur Mikrobiologie und experimentelle Therapie
(ZIMET), Jena.

Disposition and excretion of the anabolic steroid Oral-
Turinabol (1;4-chloro-17 alpha-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-17
beta-hydroxy-3-one) were investigated in male volunteers.
Following single p.o. and i.v. administration of the tritium-
labelled compound the plasma concentration courses of total
radioactivity (1 and 1-metabolites) and of the unchanged
parent drug as well as the urinary excretion were estimated.
From these data model independent pharmacokinetic parameters
based on statistical moments were calculated. 1 is almost
completely absorbed after p.o. administration of 10 mg per
volunteer. Peak concentrations of total radioactivity and of 1
in plasma were reached about 3 h p.a. Irregularities
observed in the plasma level profile following both p.o. and
i.v. administration of 1 are due to a marked enterohepatic
circulation. Orally given 1 is subject to a first-pass
effect, resulting in a diminished systematic availability.
The AUC-ratio of the unchanged drug and the total
radioactivity of 1 : 13 shows the predominance of metabolites
in plasma. After i.v. administration the disposition of
unchanged 1 was found biphasically with a terminal half-life
of 16 h. 1 and its metabolites are preferentially excreted
via the kidneys. The urinary total radioactivity represented
about 60% of the dose following both administrations. Due to
its affinity to SHBG 1 is able to compete for the protein
binding of testosterone, resulting in an increased plasma
level of non protein-bound testosterone.


FREE TEST plasma concentrations increase because Tbol rapidly binds to Sex Hormone Binding GLOBULIN. Free test is immediately available for anabolism as it is tissue saturated--whereas CIRCULATING testosterone can be metabolized.

There is ZERO chance of GYNO.

Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone

Not inherently, nor metabolically.

If it stays tissue saturated, then why does it say that "plasma levels of non-protein bound testosterone" are increased? And how does it increase libido if it stays tissue saturated?

 

[Ross]

If it stays tissue saturated, then why does it say that "plasma levels of non-protein bound testosterone" are increased? And how does it increase libido if it stays tissue saturated?

LOL..being TISSUE SATURATED is what enables test to take it's ACTION. Being PROTEIN-bound to SHBG is another BALL GAME. Test needs to be active in TISSUE.

 

[mendo]

LOL..being TISSUE SATURATED is what enables test to take it's ACTION. Being PROTEIN-bound to SHBG is another BALL GAME. Test needs to be active in TISSUE.

Yes, tissue is where it is active...but that doesn't mean that free test in plasma isnt capable of circulating throughout the body and aromatizing right? Good discussion...

 

[Bruce]

all i know is i just came off tbol 60mg ed, finished pct which was nolva 20mg ed cause i felt so good. wouldve done 40mg ed if i thought i needed it. my libido is through the roof still. no sides no gyno nada.

 

[Ross]

Yes, tissue is where it is active...but that doesn't mean that free test in plasma isnt capable of circulating throughout the body and aromatizing right? Good discussion...

Yep it does. Plasma levels of FREE test concentrations and Total T productions are much different. Furthermore, this characteristic makes turinabol (like WInstrol) capable of INCREASING the effeciacy of OTHER compounds being used.

 

[mendo]

all i know is i just came off tbol 60mg ed, finished pct which was nolva 20mg ed cause i felt so good. wouldve done 40mg ed if i thought i needed it. my libido is through the roof still. no sides no gyno nada.

As you know Bruce I love Tbol. I have only had one side from it ever...and I posted this same study awhile back as it mentions how Tbol is excreted via the kidneys. Great stuff...and very easy recovery and PCT. But when I read the study...I get that Tbol frees up test such that it can be isolated from the plasma...and that seems to indicate that maybe some of the benefits from Tbol are from free test...which also has other effects in the body, thats all I'm saying. Nobody is getting gyno or hairloss.

 

[Ross]

Each and every time I use TBOL I am dry as a bone. NO GYNO--remember, I can not use AROMATZING steroids....and no male should. (Ill explain later!!)

 

[mendo]

Yep it does. Plasma levels of FREE test concentrations and Total T productions are much different. Furthermore, this characteristic makes turinabol (like WInstrol) capable of INCREASING the effeciacy of OTHER compounds being used.

I agree with what you're saying...but wouldn't at least be POSSIBLE that by increasing the efficiency of test, it could also increase tests other effects...such as libido (which many, including you have noted).

 

[mendo]

Each and every time I use TBOL I am dry as a bone. NO GYNO--remember, I can not use AROMATZING steroids....and no male should. (Ill explain later!!)

RLM, I'm just playing devils advocate to try to make a point. I am gyno prone myself and have never had even an itch from Tbol. But it does seem odd to me that it somehow only magnifies the POSITIVE effects of test in the body.

 

[Bruce]

its fucking sweet though so i'll take the test libido without the sides and not ask questions

 

[mendo]

its fucking sweet though so i'll take the test libido without the sides and not ask questions

LOL. Yeah maybe you're right. If it ain't broke don't fix it... Tbol is the shit...I'll just leave it at that.

 

[krishna]

Where does your study say it stays tissue saturated? What about what Mendo said about PLASMA LEVELS being higher?

 

[Guvna]

Nope

Anavar won't shut you down, but it can suppress you.


Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.
The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG.

Endocrine Unit, Middlesex Hospital, London, UK.

OBJECTIVE: We studied the effects of oxandrolone on serum concentrations of LH, FSH, testosterone, GH, SHBG, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty. DESIGN: Ten boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty, mean age 13.8 years (range 12.4-15.5) were studied. Twenty-four-hour serum concentration profiles of GH, LH and FSH were constructed by drawing blood samples at 20-minute intervals. Three study occasions over a period of 6 months were chosen to assess hormone concentrations before, during and 6 weeks after a 3-month course of oxandrolone (2.5 mg once daily) therapy. RESULTS: Growth velocity increased during oxandrolone treatment and stayed higher after therapy (pre 3.9 +/- 0.5; on 6.3 +/- 0.8; post 6.4 +/- 0.9 cm/year (mean +/- SEM) two way ANOVA, F = 5.3, P = 0.02). Oxandrolone had androgenic effects, suppressing mean serum LH concentrations from 1.7 +/- 0.3 to 1.1 +/- 0.2 U/I and serum testosterone concentrations from 1.9 +/- 0.6 to 0.8 +/- 0.1 nmol/l. SHBG concentrations were also reduced from 130.9 +/- 14.6 to 30.7 +/- 7.3 nmol/l. Serum GH concentration fell slightly from 5.9 +/- 0.6 to 4.8 +/- 0.5 mU/l. After cessation of treatment, there was a significant 'rebound' in mean 24-hour serum LH (2.6 U/l +/- 0.4) and testosterone concentrations (3.2 +/- 0.9 nmol/l) but no change in serum GH concentrations. SHBG values also rose but not to the same extent as those observed before therapy (82.0 +/- 8.4 nmol/l). There were no statistically significant differences in serum concentrations of FSH, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin over the study period. In a stepwise multiple regression analysis of factors that might influence the growth rate observed, the 24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration and the treatment (on or off) with oxandrolone were the main influences. The relationship was described by the equation Height velocity = 0.69 (24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration)+1.70 (treatment regimen)+3.37 (adjusted R2 = 0.35, F = 8.39, P = 0.001). CONCLUSIONS: Oxandrolone has an androgenic action as shown by changes in serum LH, testosterone and SHBG concentrations and by the lack of effect on FSH. No effect of oxandrolone on the GH axis was documented. We suggest that the growth promoting effects of oxandrolone are related in part to the mild androgenic effects of the steroid and the growth acceleration following oxandrolone withdrawal may reflect increasing total serum testosterone concentrations and decreasing levels of SHBG and progress in puberty.

PMID: 8319371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

supression and "shut down" are basically the same thing. And even into the serum/plasma/ t level discussion to break it down it is moot. some guys can just have their t levels drop some without seriously impacting HTPA. most cant. Why spread advice that *most* cant follow?

 

[Guvna]

Schumann W.

Institut fur Mikrobiologie und experimentelle Therapie
(ZIMET), Jena.

Disposition and excretion of the anabolic steroid Oral-
Turinabol (1;4-chloro-17 alpha-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-17
beta-hydroxy-3-one) were investigated in male volunteers.
Following single p.o. and i.v. administration of the tritium-
labelled compound the plasma concentration courses of total
radioactivity (1 and 1-metabolites) and of the unchanged
parent drug as well as the urinary excretion were estimated.
From these data model independent pharmacokinetic parameters
based on statistical moments were calculated. 1 is almost
completely absorbed after p.o. administration of 10 mg per
volunteer. Peak concentrations of total radioactivity and of 1
in plasma were reached about 3 h p.a. Irregularities
observed in the plasma level profile following both p.o. and
i.v. administration of 1 are due to a marked enterohepatic
circulation. Orally given 1 is subject to a first-pass
effect, resulting in a diminished systematic availability.
The AUC-ratio of the unchanged drug and the total
radioactivity of 1 : 13 shows the predominance of metabolites
in plasma. After i.v. administration the disposition of
unchanged 1 was found biphasically with a terminal half-life
of 16 h. 1 and its metabolites are preferentially excreted
via the kidneys. The urinary total radioactivity represented
about 60% of the dose following both administrations. Due to
its affinity to SHBG 1 is able to compete for the protein
binding of testosterone, resulting in an increased plasma
level of non protein-bound testosterone.


Free testosterone is immediately available for anabolism as it is tissue saturated.

Thats a pretty weak study bro. There is a serious abscence of real world numbers.


Also, one could speculate that as one starts the cycle, the amount of free test becomes lessend. Tbol WILL supress test, and the more one is supressed (shut down) the less to total test there will be to free up.

 

[Guvna]

AGAIN--Let me clarify for those who insist on being closed-minded...

I Don't use TESTOSTERONE--Test is GREAT for mass, I am just unwilling to risk gyno, hairloss, or acne, because I am a MODEL.



um, so var cant cause hairloss or acne? tell that to my head, and my face. I and lost more hair on var than I did on T, and still brokeout (abliet not as badly). Guys also get GYNO, yes GYNO from var. Why? Cause their androgen/estrogen balance gets out of whack because of the SHUTDOWN that CAN occur.




I do enjoy discourse, so let's keep the knowledge flowing.

PS, as for BEING SHUTDOWN vs SUPRESSED--there is a HUGE difference. And the study demonstrating that VAR didn't even shutdown a 14 year old boy illustrates it's relative safety. AND--as I discussed earlier, being SUPRESSED actually confers a benefit post cycle, as a REBOUND in T-levels will occur upon cessation.

Had the boy gone through puberty yet? Also, you know what accompanies a T-surge post cycle? LOTS of estrogen. I have personally seen the bloodwork of a guy that wanted to see if trib really worked. So he got periodic tests done with it. And it did work...sort of. He was not on anything. He took lots of trib for a period i dont exactly recall, maybe a week and got his test checked. Well, it went up. Great. A couple weeks later he got his test checked again. His test went back down to normal, and is E had DOUBLED. No thanks. Ill stick with an anti-aromatase and nolva....and test.