The Case Against The Ten Commandments!

[JollyRogers]

Religion is the root of all evil, you would think we are living in the medieval ages still, is old school dogmatic bullshit


What year is this, I think our maturity has evolved somewhat, get rid of all this religious bullshit, it causes war, it always has, believe what you want but this shit is old

 

[atlantabiolab]

Actually, I don't get your point. There are plenty of things we can't prove, but that we know to be true.

So if we really aren't God's special creation and there is no higher power, then how do we know that murder (or any other crime) is wrong? What is that makes us know that? Is it just because some manmade law says it's wrong?

Laws have been based, historically, on many factors, such as divine rights, prejudice, etc., but Western society, following in the tradition of Aristotlelian, Thomistic and Natural Law philosophy, used the idea of morality and ethics, which attempts to discern the laws of nature, which govern man. Grotius, the father of Natural Law Theory, stated that "there are laws which would be true even if God did not exist", essentially a code of rules which would be true even if not divined by God. So while there is a commandment which condemns murder, human reason could and does objectively and absolutely determine that this was true; that murder is morally wrong. So, the two just happen to coincide.

Some Biblical laws and philosophical reasonings have clashed, such as the possession of slaves, which human reason has determined to be absolutely immoral and not conducive to a moral society.

Today's legal thinking is based on the more recent anti-rational philosophies of positivism and deconstructionism, which for the former argues that essentially what the majority thinks is true, or the latter, anything traditional must be destroyed.

 

[casualbb]

What about every piece of money in the US that has 'In God We Trust'?

Actually that first came to pass during the civil War (see here). The founders were very pro-separation of church and state, and they didn't want it mentioned anywhere. On a related note, the Pledge only had the "under god" part added during the Cold War when the US wanted to emphasize the non-religion of the Soviets.

Also, completely unrelated, if they do make people swear over a bible that they will "tell the whole truth," what do Jews swear over? A full-sized torah?

 

[casualbb]

Actually, currency had religious messages as far back as the civil war, but the motto "In God We Trust" wasn't added until early in the 20th century for coins. The bills all had the motto added between 1962 and 1964 (note: during cold war).

 

[big_bad_buff]

Exactly, I would also like to ad, that in my eyes, anyone who does not believe in god, is blind by their own ignorance.

You are probably right and then you can have snazzy little 666 on your forehead or your righthand and worship some big ass ugly image of the anti christ or they will chop your head off.

 

[biteme]

"Thy shall not let your dog shit in your neighbor's yard"

 

[atlantabiolab]

The founders were very pro-separation of church and state, and they didn't want it mentioned anywhere.

They were only separation of church and state in the idea that they rejected the idea of a government mandated religion, as they witnessed in Britain with the formation of Anglicanism.

After this, religion was free reign and could be shown in the numerous states and localities which promoted religious ideals in the laws of the areas. You could not be forced or denied rights because you were of a different background, but the ideals of the local populace took supremacy over the few who differed.

 

[plornive]

Laws have been based, historically, on many factors, such as divine rights, prejudice, etc., but Western society, following in the tradition of Aristotlelian, Thomistic and Natural Law philosophy, used the idea of morality and ethics, which attempts to discern the laws of nature, which govern man. Grotius, the father of Natural Law Theory, stated that "there are laws which would be true even if God did not exist", essentially a code of rules which would be true even if not divined by God. So while there is a commandment which condemns murder, human reason could and does objectively and absolutely determine that this was true; that murder is morally wrong. So, the two just happen to coincide.

Some Biblical laws and philosophical reasonings have clashed, such as the possession of slaves, which human reason has determined to be absolutely immoral and not conducive to a moral society.

Today's legal thinking is based on the more recent anti-rational philosophies of positivism and deconstructionism, which for the former argues that essentially what the majority thinks is true, or the latter, anything traditional must be destroyed.

Thank you. Whether one believes in god or not, the whole "everyone knows right and wrong so there must be one single entity that causes this, namely god" argument is flawed.

 

[plornive]

Exactly, I would also like to ad, that in my eyes, anyone who does not believe in god, is blind by their own ignorance.

So... you're saying... I'm ignorant, because I'm ignorant. Intriguing.

 

[IvanOffelitch]

As this is my first post here (been a reader of the site for quite a while), I figured I'd might as well make it a good one...

2Thick...

How "George Carlin-esque"...

I've been following these "anti-religion" threads for quite some time, and were they not so pitiful, they'd almost be amusing.

This may come as a complete shock to you, but greater minds than yours have tried for centuries to de-bunk religion (I loathe that term btw, more in a moment...) and have failed miserably. NO ONE has yet to dis-prove anything written in the Bible...quite the contrary, often times the more they struggle to discredit scripture, the more the TRUTH about scripture is revealed.

In all honesty, I'm really not suprised at the amount of hostility directed at the church (namely the Christian church) these days. Too many people have a mindset of what a "Christian" is...i.e. some loud-mouthed charismatic (ugh) hypocrite spouting off on the `toob, screaming hellfire and brimstone...you get the general idea. These people have done more damage to the church than satan himself! It's no wonder people start to cringe the minute someone tells them they're a "Christian".

I have mixed emotions towards this type of "Christian" (and I use that term loosely)...part of me detests them for the damage they cause, and another part of me feels somewhat sorry for them, as chances are they're simply mis-informed about their beliefs...which brings me to my next point...

Question: What term would you use to describe someone who speaks as an "expert" on a subject they know little to nothing about?...

Example: Someone on this board who has never used AAS, yet repeatedly offers up their "expert advise" on the subject?...or a 350 lb slob who doesn't know a dumbell from a squat rack who offers up dieting advise?

...or a person speaking on matters of religion and faith, having never legitimately studied the topic themselves?...

If I may be so bold as to ask...what qualifies YOU as an expert on religion?...have you studied the topic?...have you spent years of your life researching the matter with an UN-BIASED opinion seeking the truth, or are you another one of those internet BB wanna-be's who simply spouts off the same senseless rhetoric that they heard on tv?...or read in a magazine?...or saw on another BB? Do you even know the difference between "religion" and "relationship?"

I'll answer that one for you...

"Religion" is nothing more than man's attempts to make himself "right" with God. That's about as effective as putting lipstick on a pig (and I don't doubt for a minute that there's at least 1 person on this BB who's actually done that). Religion doesn't make man "right" with God; a relationship does.

Before you go getting your shorts in a knot, I'll openly state that I'm no saint...far from it as matter of fact...but I DO believe. Why?...because I decided I wanted to know the TRUTH, and I pursued the matter without any preconcieved notions...and as Deut. 4:29 says, "...you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and all your soul."

I'll apologise ahead of time for taking such a harsh tone with this post, but it seems to be the only tone you understand. If you honestly want to know the truth, it's up to you to seek it. I'm not goint to get sucked into a pissing match on here with you, as I know where that inevitably leads...but if you care to discuss the topic in an adult, civilized manner, fine.

Try picking up a copy of Josh McDowell's book "Evidence That Demands A Verdict"...it's higher-level reading, but well worth the effort. (yes, I'm aware of the plethora of critiques of his writings on the internet...they have holes in them big enough to drive a truck through)

The ball is in your court...try to keep it civilized.