Millions can't find family doctor (Ah, The Joys of socialized medicine)

[Robert Jan]

The whole idea is fucking sick.

Yeah we COULD save your life of course but then again- hey- you're too poor. We don't help poor people when it costs money sorry go and die

 

[bluepeter]

This is all a load of shit. Universal healthcare works beautifully, we proved that here in Canada for years when our healthcare system was among the best in the world year after year. What universal healthcare cannot withstand is government waste and incompetency. It is true that we have long wait times for less serious problems in our emergency rooms in large urban centres. It is not true that 'you can't find a doctor' or can't get anyone to look at you for 4 weeks. Complete bullshit. You can walk down any street and find a walk-in clinic who will likely see you in 15 minutes whenever you want and you don't have to have insurance to get in cause everybody has it.

We have our problems these days some of which have been mentioned in this thread but EVERY ONE OF THEM can be attributed to governmental fuckups/waste/scandals/mismanagement and not the system itself.

Even in its current state, I'll take our system over an elitist system where only the wealthy/insured get proper healthcare anyday.

 

[Lao Tzu]

This is all a load of shit. Universal healthcare works beautifully, we proved that here in Canada for years when our healthcare system was among the best in the world year after year. What universal healthcare cannot withstand is government waste and incompetency. It is true that we have long wait times for less serious problems in our emergency rooms in large urban centres. It is not true that 'you can't find a doctor' or can't get anyone to look at you for 4 weeks. Complete bullshit. You can walk down any street and find a walk-in clinic who will likely see you in 15 minutes whenever you want and you don't have to have insurance to get in cause everybody has it.

We have our problems these days some of which have been mentioned in this thread but EVERY ONE OF THEM can be attributed to governmental fuckups/waste/scandals/mismanagement and not the system itself.

Even in its current state, I'll take our system over an elitist system where only the wealthy/insured get proper healthcare anyday.

Thank you.

I also don't know why anti-socialized medicine people assume Canada is the only country with universal access. Every developed country other than the US and about 20-40 developing countries offer universal access. The Canadian system is just one of many.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

at least we don't have people dying because they can't afford a doctor.

QUOTE]

Do you really think that happens here? Really?

That kind of ignorance is like the USSR showing America's homeless in propaganda films and saying "look how shitty capitalism is for them".

I work in health-care, Americans can get treated simply by walking on off the street for anything, insurance or no.

Why do people think that a socialized bureaucracy is more effective than people interacting voluntarily to meet their needs?

 

[bluepeter]

I work in health-care, Americans can get treated simply by walking on off the street for anything, insurance or no.

and how much is their bill afterward?

 

[Robert Jan]

Why do people think that a socialized bureaucracy is more effective than people interacting voluntarily to meet their needs?

Because ehh... well it is.

look at Canada, Belgium, Holland... happens to be we provide more care for less money

 

[ChefWide]

really? i dont know about your socialist paradises, but i don't have to wait weeks/months to get seen. even it isnt an emergency, i can call up my doctor and have an appointment either that day or the next.

Cool Same here! Our family doctor is great. Call in the morning, appointment that afternoon or the next morning: never wait for more than five minutes past your appointment time.

Every afternoon between 4 and 6 pm the doctors offices he is a part of takes walk-in patients too, no appointment needed, never more than a 15 minute wait. Need a quick check, just go. Did I mention that it costs $4 for a doctors visit?

i dont have to wait around like you poor schmoes do.

Wait? Last time I saw my son's pediatritian in NY, we had a 1pm appointment and actually saw the doctor at 2:15. Unfucking real.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

and how much is their bill afterward?

What a crazy idea, paying for services.

When you get your car fixed, there's a bill.

When you go to a restuarant, there is a bill.

Shocking!! I know.


The inherent problem with socialized health care is that it forces ME to pay for people other than myself, and therefore decreases the idea of personalized responsibility for one's health.

I exercise like a son-of-a-bitch. Weights, cardio, I do it all. My doctor bills are pretty low. Funny how that works. Socialized medicine undermines that concept.

 

[Lao Tzu]

What a crazy idea, paying for services.

When you get your car fixed, there's a bill.

When you go to a restuarant, there is a bill.

Shocking!! I know.


The inherent problem with socialized health care is that it forces ME to pay for people other than myself, and therefore decreases the idea of personalized responsibility for one's health.

I exercise like a son-of-a-bitch. Weights, cardio, I do it all. My doctor bills are pretty low. Funny how that works. Socialized medicine undermines that concept.

You already do pay heavily. i posted a link earlier about how $550 billion is spent by the government on healthcare. that is 5.5% of GDP. However in 'socialized' countries ALL healthcare costs come to about 7-11%. So you are already paying heavily, you are just paying heavily into an inefficient, corrupt, unfair system. If you subtract 1-2% which is paid in the private sector in places like Australia or Japan (assuming japan lets you opt out), we pay almost as much in taxes as a % of GDP as socialized country for care that only gets to 1/3 as many people.

Add on the fact that aside from the 2-3k each taxpayer pays as his share of that $550 billion they also pay another 3-4k for insurance and maybe 1-2k out of pocket (for a family).

No other country spends as much per person on healthcare as the US.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

You already do pay heavily. i posted a link earlier about how $550 billion is spent by the government on healthcare. that is 5.5% of GDP.

Yep. I support the abolition of this too.

However in 'socialized' countries ALL healthcare costs come to about 7-11%. So you are already paying heavily, you are just paying heavily into an inefficient, corrupt, unfair system.

You're talking about the government part, right?

If you subtract 1-2% which is paid in the private sector in places like Australia or Japan (assuming japan lets you opt out), we pay almost as much in taxes as a % of GDP as socialized country for care that only gets to 1/3 as many people.

This is an indictment of US government inefficiency. No argument here.

Add on the fact that aside from the 2-3k each taxpayer pays as his share of that $550 billion they also pay another 3-4k for insurance and maybe 1-2k out of pocket (for a family).

Drop that 550B and things don't look so bad, do they?

No other country spends as much per person on healthcare as the US.

Where are the links about the post-1964 rise in the costs of everything?

The cost of healthcare is due to the presence of third party payors, notably the government. The government, by getting invovled, has forced the hand of private insurers.

If the government excludes private insurers by socializing the market, costs will initially surge, followed by a call for reducing the costs. Costs will be reduced in the typical heavy handed government manner: reduce things across the board.

This is why, despite all of the clamoring for socialized medicine, no one will ever step up and admit that in those countries, specialized procedures such as transplants and even more routine surgeries are often very hard to get, if not impossible. I work with medical doctor specialists from around the world. I talk to them. We discuss this issue all the time.

If you want to reduce health care costs, they propose two solutions:

1. get the government *out*
2. Stop treating old people who don't have private insurance.

2 is untenable. 1 is not.


Do you want to turn YOUR healthcare over the the government? Fine. You want VA level healthcare for all? Fine.

But leave mine alone....at this point, it's really all I ask.