Lockout on triceps pushdowns?

[SteelWeaver]

I've always heard/read/thought that one is not supposed to lock out joints on any movements, but I read somewhere recently that on triceps pushdowns you get a better peak contraction when you lock out the elbow - which, incidentally, is true - I tested it, but is this the correct way to do them?

And while I'm on the topic of pushdowns - why do my anterior delts hurt when I do these???

 

[JJFigure]

Is it your elbow position? Are your elbows close to your body or away from your body? I'm sitting here playing around with the motion, trying to figure out how it hits the anterior delt. I hope no one is watching me, cause I look a little retarded right now.

 

[JJFigure]

Well, I finally quit making an ass of myself and picked up Arnold's encyclopedia to see what he had to say. All it answered was the lockout question:

P. 450 - (2) Press the bar down as far as possible, locking out your arms and feeling the tricepts contract fully.

 

[Gladiola]

IMO Arnold's book is really lacking in sufficient detail when it comes to explaining exercises. See 'Good Mornings' - so little detail.

You are right that you're not really supposed to lock out, but it's not as though you're doing a movement with locked joints - you're just contracting fully to lock the joint at the end of the movement briefly - so it doesn't seem like a problem to me.

As for the anterior delts, you could be rotating the shoulder joint medially - as if bringing your elbow to face the front. Then your anterior delts would be contracted - which might be why they hurt. Only thing I thought of. Back when I did those, I would always be sure I had my shoulders down & back (military posture!) before beginning each set.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

And while I'm on the topic of pushdowns - why do my anterior delts hurt when I do these???

Are your shoulders "hunched" or rolled forward? Which would also mean that your elbows are not tight at your sides. Try standing with your shoulder blades squeezed together, elbows tucked into your sides.

When I roll my shoulders forward (hunched) and pressdown, my anterior delts are contracted but when I stand upright with my shoulder blades sqeezed together they are more relaxed so I can focus on the tricep not the delt.

And I do lockout my elbow when doing.

 

[MS]

Yeah, keep your shoulders down and back, and the most important part of this exercise (which I'm pretty sure MOST people neglect) is to actively squeeze your elbows together through the whole move. This should be the emphasis of the exercise rather than concentrating on moving the weight down. You can do this by attempting to move your hands toward eachother (without actually moving them) while keeping the elbows in. This also works REALLY well in reverse for bicep curls (barbell). And you can get a good peak contraction just short of locking out by forcing yourself to contract isometrically. If you do this just a couple of degress short of locking, it works just as well without straining the joint.

 

[vinylgroover]

I've always heard/read/thought that one is not supposed to lock out joints on any movements, but I read somewhere recently that on triceps pushdowns you get a better peak contraction when you lock out the elbow - which, incidentally, is true - I tested it, but is this the correct way to do them?

And while I'm on the topic of pushdowns - why do my anterior delts hurt when I do these???

The 'lockout' theory is useful when using substantial amounts of weight on a particular movement, ie leg press. It can place an excessive amount of stress on joints if you are continuously locking out with maximum poundage.

As far as building muscular size, it depends on whether you subscribe to the continuous tension principle or not as to whether locking out is more beneficial.

IMO, your front delts hurt because you are possibly using too much weight at the expense of form. It means you are probably leaning into the movement, something that is more likely to occur when using too much weight.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Mmm. I think you're right about the weight, vinylgroover, since it usually happens on the heaviest sets. However - I can still crank out, like, 10 reps or so on those sets, so it's not like it's that heavy - and this is AFTER about 3 sets each of two compound moves - usually narrow grip bench and dips, WITH forced reps.

I haven't done tri pushdowns for a while, since I prefer compound type moves, but I started doing them again recently for a change. I'll have to check my form - I thought I was perfect on them - chest up and out, standing nice and close to the stack to prevent forward lean - in fact, I'm so close my knuckles almost graze the cable - elbows locked into sides, lats and ... rhomboids? (middle back) plus erectors contracted, shoulders back, abs, glutes, thighs tight, knees very slightly bent - looking straight ahead to prevent hunching ... Am I missing anything?

When I lighten the stack to take out the delts, I end up doing way too many reps. Mmm, maybe it's time to drop these and go back to skullcrushers or overhead raises for my finishing move ...

MS - wouldn't you want to be trying to pull your hands AWAY from each other to force the elbows to tuck in toward each other more?

BTW - how far past 90 degrees does everyone go on the negative of these? All the way up?

 

[vinylgroover]

Your form sounds ok.

What bar attachment do you use for your pushdowns?

I go past 90 degrees, but if you go too far, you will notice a tendancy to recruit the lower back if you use too much weight.