Is this self defense or murder?

[heatherrae]

Normally, I would agree, but this guy and his wife were so out of it and I know there are times when I am FAST asleep and won't even hear a thunderstorm.
Also, in the last year, here in the city, there have been a strong of home invasions. So this dude thought he was being robbed

I think when you deal drugs and have a gun loaded and right beside your bed, you aren't the average joe any more that we need to give the benefit of the doubt regarding whether you thought it was the police or not.

 

[nefertiti]

This possibly changes things a bit.

It seems the result may hinge on this. I don't know.

I'll use a bad analogy... If you get pulled over for speeding, but you weren't speeding, does that mean you shouldn't listen to the Policeman's orders to "get out of the car" or whatever he may ask you, just because you "weren't speeding"?

A cop asking you to get out of the car is still acting within his legal rights, so that's a really bad analogy.


For the record, if I were on the jury I would convict of manslaughter...there are more options than murder and self defense. I believe it was a clusterfuck situation that got out of hand and someone was killed without that being the actual intent of the moment.

 

[xrsist]

alot of delirious people in this thread, i agree with heatherrae and gonelifting

 

[needtogetarmy]

AVet, that is an interesting perspective, and I see your point

I don't view drug dealers as scum, I think my government who owns and operates all the liquor stores are worse than drug dealers since more people die from drinking than doing blow or weed.

I think drug dealers are entitled to make a living just as much as the government who sells booze and lottery tickets

I disagree 100%. Certain conduct needs to be regulated by the government. I do not think drug dealers that sell hard narcotics like heroin and cocaine are entitled to "make a living."

Look at the opium dens in China. It almost destroyed a 3000 year old culture.

 

[needtogetarmy]

What if the guy did have drugs in the house? Does that take away the right to protect his family? Screw that cop, poor babies lost a hero and a friend. Whatever, crooked power hungry pigs

it's self defense, anyone breaking down doors and walking into your home where you and your family sleep should be fucking slaughtered…what gives anyone the right to break into anyone’s “home” that cop got what he deserved for playing their little fun swat games, this is the reality to what happens in life, if they want to take the risk of playing swat with their big bad weapons with lasers then there you go. Cops have too much power, most are crooks.

Give me a break.

Cops are willing to risk their lives to protect others. I cannot fathom how someone can disrespect that.

The majority of cops are just like the majority of all humans. There are good and bad apples.

 

[needtogetarmy]

Something like this happened in Texas like 30 years ago. A college student/small time pot dealer got robbed. He went out and bought a gun. A couple of weeks later his house was raided by Texas Rangers. They didn't identify themselves as cops and he thought he was being robbed again. So he pulled out his gun and shot one of the guys. The Ranger died. The kid swore he didnt know they were police. And technically it was self defense, as in Texas you can totally kill people who break into your house. But a simple "I'm sorry I thought I was being robbed" didnt work for the kid. He is still in jail. He's lucky he didnt get the the death penalty. Poor kid.

Poor kid? He was selling drugs. People who sell drugs should expect to get raided by the police or get shot while being robbed. He lived by the sword and died by it. No sympathy from me.

 

[needtogetarmy]

regardless of law and warrant, look at it in his eyes if everything he is saying is true....you wake up to your door being smashed in and people running through your house. you have two small children. What do you do just being awoken to this chaos and not know what's going on? Hope it's the police?

if they came through downstairs yelling police and he's upstairs asleep with the door shut you expect him to hear them?

the only way this guy should be convicted of anything is if he is psycho and heard them saying they were police and pulled his gun trying to protect his stash....

regardless, they are going to outlaw guns soon anyways, it's fate, disarm the people, make them easier to control by your government and police state.

Why you DO is NOT SELL DRUGS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Then you do not need to worry about cops or other drug dealers coming into your home to shoot you.

 

[blueta2]

Poor kid? He was selling drugs. People who sell drugs should expect to get raided by the police or get shot while being robbed. He lived by the sword and died by it. No sympathy from me.

dude, it's ONLY drugs. Phamacuticals sell dope to addicts everyday. The government sells booze to addicts every day.
Please explain the difference to me

 

[needtogetarmy]

dude, it's ONLY drugs. Phamacuticals sell dope to addicts everyday. The government sells booze to addicts every day.
Please explain the difference to me

There is a huge difference when it involves illegal conduct. Tens of thousands of people have been murdered, tortured and killed all so these drug dealers can make a living. Look at any inner city in the US. Generations have been lost to drugs and their side effects, like gangs. There is a huge difference between a doctor dispensing a pain killer to someone recovering from cancer or surgery and a drug dealer selling crack cocaine to a 12 year old.

 

[needtogetarmy]

But did they follow procedure? We must assume so, they always do.

Cops do not always follow proper procedures. When they don't they deserve to be punished.