Is my split effective for MMA?

[Freddie45]

Hi I'm Freddie45 and new to this board. I am hoping some one can either agree with my split or give me advice on how to improve it for MMA.

I have been doing the following split the past few weeks and I am noticing a lot of probelms with it. Routine and martials arts below:

Monday: Legs and Shoulders
Tuesday: Muay Thai (High cardio, body weight exercises and pad work)
Wednesday: Karate (Lots of intense grappling, locks/cranks and throws)
Thursday: Back, Biceps and Forearms
Friday: Chest, Triceps and ABS
Saturday: Karate (Bunkai, locks, throws and pad work)
Sunday Off

The problems I am facing are on :

Tuesday my kicks are quite sluggish due to squating the day before. This also doesn't allow my legs to heal 100% for karate class on Wednesday. Also my shoulders hold me back when doing push ups etc as they were worked the day before. Not as bad as legs but I can't get as many push ups in.

Thursdays: I have noticed I have had to skip multiple back and bi sessions, due to the fact that i've been put in an arm bar or shoulder crank the night before. This can get quite frustrating and need to figure out away to get them worked over the weeekend (which is not ideal for me)

I also find myself a little lethargic come Saturdays class as I have done two upper body sessions. As mentioned before I get put in a lot of cranks and locks which is more of a bother if my upper body has not healed 100%.

I have now started thinking to switch my routine;

Shoulders/tris/bis: Monday
Legs: Thursday
Chest/Back/Traps: Friday

At least Muay Thai won't be effected as no leg work will be on Monday. Shoulders may be a little fatigued but nothing to really worry about. Shoulders also get two days off to recover and prepare for locks etc on Wednesday. Legs are worked on Thursday allowing two days off for Saturdays class and I won't be doing two upper body workouts two days in a row.

What do you guys think? Even though this program works around my MMA quite well (allowing more muscle groups mpore time to recover), it still dones't seem to be the most effective program I have used or seen.

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Freddei45

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Are you training for strength? Size? Stamina?
Also if you could provide an example of your workouts on weight training days. That will help.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using EliteFitness

 

[Keirox]

I would assume that you need explosiveness and strength.. I would suggest you to add (if you are not allready doing) back squats/front squats/powercleans and powersnatches.

Furthermore I would suggest you to google and read the following (most of these are here in elitefts)

Time Under Tension for MMA Fighters & Grapplers By Zach Even
Esh Time Under Tension for Grapplers & MMA Fighters Part II By Zach Even
Esh Strength and Flexibility Exercises for Fighters By Joe DeFranco Strength Training For Fighters
15 Random Thoughts by Ross Enamait
How Combat Athletes Can Effectively Use Kettlebells and the Grappler By Zach Even-esh
MMA Strength-Endurance Training - Be Stronger...Longer

 

[Colstreamer]

I am hoping some one can either agree with my split or give me advice on how to improve it for MMA.

I have been doing the following split the past few weeks and I am noticing a lot of probelms with it. Routine and martials arts below:

Monday: Legs and Shoulders
Tuesday: Muay Thai (High cardio, body weight exercises and pad work)
Wednesday: Karate (Lots of intense grappling, locks/cranks and throws)
Thursday: Back, Biceps and Forearms
Friday: Chest, Triceps and ABS
Saturday: Karate (Bunkai, locks, throws and pad work)
Sunday Off

The problems I am facing are on :

Tuesday my kicks are quite sluggish due to squating the day before. This also doesn't allow my legs to heal 100% for karate class on Wednesday. Also my shoulders hold me back when doing push ups etc as they were worked the day before. Not as bad as legs but I can't get as many push ups in.

Thursdays: I have noticed I have had to skip multiple back and bi sessions, due to the fact that i've been put in an arm bar or shoulder crank the night before. This can get quite frustrating and need to figure out away to get them worked over the weeekend (which is not ideal for me)

I also find myself a little lethargic come Saturdays class as I have done two upper body sessions. As mentioned before I get put in a lot of cranks and locks which is more of a bother if my upper body has not healed 100%.

I have now started thinking to switch my routine;

Shoulders/tris/bis: Monday
Legs: Thursday
Chest/Back/Traps: Friday

At least Muay Thai won't be effected as no leg work will be on Monday. Shoulders may be a little fatigued but nothing to really worry about. Shoulders also get two days off to recover and prepare for locks etc on Wednesday. Legs are worked on Thursday allowing two days off for Saturdays class and I won't be doing two upper body workouts two days in a row.

What do you guys think? Even though this program works around my MMA quite well (allowing more muscle groups mpore time to recover), it still dones't seem to be the most effective program I have used or seen.

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Freddei45

What times do you train? Is there any chance you could lift after martial arts on the same day at all?

Personally I see a shed load of volume there and very little rest. Doing legs after intense kicking would be good as the kicking will pre-fatigue your legs. The way id do it is

Mon: chest & back
Tues: MT
Wed: karate
Thurs: legs and shoulders
Fri: off
Sat: Karate
Sun: off

Every Muay Thai class I ever went to had shit loads of AB work so I wouldn't bother with any extra. If you use compound lifts with plenty of weight there ain't much point in doing isolation exercises, presses and rows will build your arms plenty enough. Also go HEAVY & EXPLOSIVE when you lift, all the bodyweight exercises from karate & MT ought to take care of endurance so the lifting is for strength and power.

Thing is though what are your priorities? Martial arts or bodybuilding? One is going to suffer. I've looked at it assuming martial arts is your main sport with the lifting supplemental to that. If you're more interested in bodybuilding you might want to think about dropping Saturday karate.

If you can lift after martial arts training

Just my thoughts of course.


-----------------------------------------

Nulli secundus - second to none

Honi soit que mal y pense - evil be to him who evil thinks.

People usually fail when they are on the verge of success, so pay as much care to the end as the beginning: Then there will be no failure - Lao Tzu

 

[Freddie45]

Are you training for strength? Size? Stamina?
Also if you could provide an example of your workouts on weight training days. That will help.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using EliteFitness

Fl3X MAGNUM:

I'm training for strength, endurance and power, with size (least important) added to the mix.

My previous work out as follows:

Legs/Shoulders:
Front Sqaut 4x8
Leg Press 4x8
Leg Extension
RDL/SLDL 4x8
Leg Curl 4x8
Shoulder Press 4x8
Delt raise 4x12
Bent Over Delt Raise 4x12
Shurgs to failure

Note: I alternate between deadlifts and squats every other week to get the most out of it.

Back/Bi's/Forearms
Pull ups 4x8
Dumbbell Row 4x8
Wide Grip Lat Pull Down 4x8
Bent Over Row 4x8
Barbell Curl 4x8
EZ Bar Preacher Curls 4x8
Inclnce Dumbbell Curl 4x8
Behind Back Wrist Curl 2x8
Wrist Curl 2x8

Chest/Tri/Abs
Incline Dumbbell Press 4x8
Flat Bench 4x8
Incline DB Fly 4x8
Flat DB Fly 4x8
Weighted Dips 4x8
Skull Crushers 4x8
Rope Pull Down 4x8
Super Set Weighted ABS x2

As yo can see this looks like more of a bodybuilder program. 2 years ago or so I was doing a 4 day split using most of these, if not, more techniques. At this point I ran my first cycle but I wasn't educated enough. Luckily, I didn't cause any harm .

 

[Freddie45]

I would assume that you need explosiveness and strength.. I would suggest you to add (if you are not allready doing) back squats/front squats/powercleans and powersnatches.

Furthermore I would suggest you to google and read the following (most of these are here in elitefts)

Time Under Tension for MMA Fighters & Grapplers By Zach Even
Esh Time Under Tension for Grapplers & MMA Fighters Part II By Zach Even
Esh Strength and Flexibility Exercises for Fighters By Joe DeFranco Strength Training For Fighters
15 Random Thoughts by Ross Enamait
How Combat Athletes Can Effectively Use Kettlebells and the Grappler By Zach Even-esh
MMA Strength-Endurance Training - Be Stronger...Longer

Keirox

I do both front squats and back squats, switching it up every week. I have never though of adding power cleans etc, maybe worht thinking about.

Thanks for the links. I will look into them after work.

 

[Freddie45]

What times do you train? Is there any chance you could lift after martial arts on the same day at all?

Personally I see a shed load of volume there and very little rest. Doing legs after intense kicking would be good as the kicking will pre-fatigue your legs. The way id do it is

Mon: chest & back
Tues: MT
Wed: karate
Thurs: legs and shoulders
Fri: off
Sat: Karate
Sun: off

Every Muay Thai class I ever went to had shit loads of AB work so I wouldn't bother with any extra. If you use compound lifts with plenty of weight there ain't much point in doing isolation exercises, presses and rows will build your arms plenty enough. Also go HEAVY & EXPLOSIVE when you lift, all the bodyweight exercises from karate & MT ought to take care of endurance so the lifting is for strength and power.

Thing is though what are your priorities? Martial arts or bodybuilding? One is going to suffer. I've looked at it assuming martial arts is your main sport with the lifting supplemental to that. If you're more interested in bodybuilding you might want to think about dropping Saturday karate.

If you can lift after martial arts training

Just my thoughts of course.


-----------------------------------------

Nulli secundus - second to none

Honi soit que mal y pense - evil be to him who evil thinks.

People usually fail when they are on the verge of success, so pay as much care to the end as the beginning: Then there will be no failure - Lao Tzu

Colstreamer

The times I train are as follows:

Tueday Mauy Thai 7-9pm
Wedesday Karate 7-9pm
Saturday Karate 12-2pm

I never would of though about going for a gym sesh after a MMA class. I could maybe throw in legs and shoulders then? Like you said it would be a good idea to pre-fatigue legs.

You're right about the Mauy Thai, there's so much core work. I've often though about dropping the ABS set on Friday due to this.

See, I'm going by the "What if" factor. Looking at the routine you provided it makes me think that if I was put in a lock or crank the night before I wouldn't be unable to have a clean shoulder workout the following day. Maybe move legs n shoulders to Friday or Saturday might be an idea?

Yes you are correct. Martial arts is my priority. I knew I'd be asked this question and it's quite hard to answer it direct. Even though martial arts is top, I find weight lifting to be equally important. I'm one of the lightest guys at the dojo (I will post stats after I post this). My weight lifting goal is to add 14+ pounds to my frame and maintain once I have achived this (long term goal). I'm often up against a 6.5" 220lbs opponents. Even though I don't have much of a problem throwing these guys, I feel if I had more weight (more base weight) throwing these guys would be a lot smoother? Does that make sence or am I thinking about it the wrong way? I know technique is most important, but I think technique would be easier if I was heavier.. I'd rather be heavier with lean mass than having belly.

The main reason I'v posted this is to find a routine that works all muscles which I can use for my 2nd cycle...but if I'm having problems training naturally then I don't see how a cycle can help.

I've often though about using a 2 day split, but I know 2 days a week at the gym on cycle won't cut it.

Really appreciate all your feed back guys.

Thanks.

 

[Freddie45]

Stats are as follows:

Height 5.8-9"
Weight 164 lbs
Body Fat Low (abs are visible)
Goals (in order) Improved recovery, lean mass, endurance.

Max bench 171 lbs
Max Squat 180 lbs

Been lifting for ruffley 6-7 years. Karate 8+ years, Mauy Thai 1 year.

I'm also an ectomorph. Not sure if that's worth mentioning.

Thanks.

 

[Freddie45]

Does anyone know how I can move this thread to the weight lifting forum? Didn't mean to post it here.

 

[Colstreamer]

Does anyone know how I can move this thread to the weight lifting forum? Didn't mean to post it here.

Lol yeah this is the wrong section for this type of thread! Lol! Dunno how you can move it. Ask a mod maybe?