INSULIN conclusions

[Nathan]

Well, I'll say that I haven't read all of the posts here but I will say that most of the harping going on is by those who have not even fucking tried insulin. Insulin is by far the easiest drug I have ever tried. Don't feel a thing except maybe a little growth and strength increase. It didn't do much for me but it wasn't really supposed to the way I was using it. It is meant to be used with gear, or if natural, then shot multiple times daily for maximum effect. Live and learn guys. I find it EXREMELY hard to believe that using humalog 5 times a week is going to damage the pancreas. The pancreas works 24/7 and to supplement with slin for 2 hours, 5 days a week for 3 weeks is going to trick it into thinking that it no longer needs to produce insulin? Sorry, I'm not buying that. The slin is not in there long enough for a negative feedback to be a concern. Fuck, whatever, chock this up to a guy who is trying to make himself feel better cause he tried it. To say though that slin is a drug only for guys who have been around for like 10+ years or whatever you would call a vet is STUPID. Period. Provided you aren't a moron, it is probably far safer than gear any day of the week. Who the fuck knows though? None of us do. Some of us are a little bit more experimental and the rest of us aren't. Leave it at that. It sounds scary if you haven't used it but if you have, then you know you have to SERIOUSLY fuck up to die from it or to even FEEL symptoms of hypoglycemia. i mean, you have to have no fucking clue what you are doing. Slin also, it just so happens, is the cheapest most readily available drug around. I'm frankly getting tired of the hypocritical bullshit I am constantly reading on this board. If you are putting ANYTHING in your body that does not belong there, i.e. juice, cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, etc. then you are a moron for saying someone else is stupid for using something that maybe they shouldn't be. Granted, some things require more knowledge and attention than others do but if you are being as responsible as possible then, while you may be a moron, at least you are a responsible one.

 

[Frackal]

Good post though quite on the attack nathan....main thing is, with any claim, some sort of proof must be provided....I am fully willing to listen open-mindedly, if Nelson presented proof that it will damage the pancreas I would not touch it, but I have not heard of it before him saying it, and I've asked a few very, very knowledgeable folks her and at AF and they said it does not.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Wow -- suprised to see this still going on.

First of all, the "don't knock it till you try it" argument is ridiculous. You don't have to jump into a fire to find out if it's going to burn you.

Saying "only a little bit won't kill you",is once again, a weak argument. A little rat poison may not kill you either. That doesn't mean it's honkey dorey to take "just a little." And the lack of studies proving the danger of something doesn't negate its danger.

As far as pancreatic damage, I wasn't referring to cancer or any other disease, just a malfuction or a less efficient functioning. And because it is far more sensitive than the HPTA, occasional distruption can most certainly cause a disruption.

As Fonz mentioned before, there are no studies on this, because insulin is not to be used on an "occasional" basis.

For anyone who says they "need it" I'd recommend getting your ass to a doctor NOW.

The bottom line here is, you're trying defend something that offers very little advantage against enormous risk. What can possibly be so great about insulin that you would take that chance?!?! What will you have to show for it? Maybe an ounce of more muscle? Maybe more fat? I dont get it. But you know, some people refuse to see the obvious signs. They believe it's more "intellectual" to wait for irrefutable scientific evidence. Some people will argue to their grave.

Ultimately it's your choice. I think you're out of your fucking mind. You disagree. Hey... I'm not your mother. Do whatever you want. I'm just presenting the facts -- and an opinion -- which I once again will reiterate:

Anyone who takes insulin is an idiot.

Maybe Im wrong. Time will tell.

 

[Spectre]

Hello again Nelson,

As Fonz mentioned before, there are no studies on this, because insulin is not to be used on an "occasional" basis.

Ok then how do you conclude.

I'm just presenting the facts -- and an opinion --

Wouldn't it be more opinion at this time?

How does one increase insulin sensitivity negating the use of insulin?

Can we please learn about the process or how one damages the pancreas?

The pancrease must be really jacked up in allot of people because in my industry I have watched people drink multiple 64oz servings of Mt Dew a day. I can't fathom the amount of insulin response these folks induce. Will they become diabetic?

Regards,

 

[Fonz]

1: J Biol Chem 2002 Aug 2;277(31):27945-52 Related Articles, Links


Suppressor of cytokine signaling-1 regulates the sensitivity of pancreatic beta cells to tumor necrosis factor.

Chong MM, Thomas HE, Kay TW.

Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research, Post Office Royal Melbourne Hospital, Parkville, Victoria 3050, Australia.

Important part:

Suppressor of cytokine signaling-1 (SOCS-1) is a negative regulator of the Jak-STAT (signal transducer and activator of transcription cytokine) signaling pathway but may also regulate other pathways. At least in vitro, SOCS-1 inhibits the action of multiple cytokines. By studying the effects of SOCS-1 deficiency, we investigated whether SOCS-1 is involved in preventing cytokine-induced death of pancreatic islet cells, a potential mechanism of insulin deficiency in autoimmune diabetes.

(End.)

A further analysis revealed that SOCS-1 deficiency results in augmented TNF signaling via the p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase pathway but not NFkappaB or c-Jun N-terminal kinase pathways. Increased p38 signaling may be responsible for the increased iNOS expression in SOCS-1-/- islets. Therefore, these findings provide evidence that physiological levels of SOCS-1 negatively regulate TNF signaling.

PMID: 12032139 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So, whats the problem?

Insulin use RAISES CYTOKINE LEVELS.

EXOGENEOUS insulin EVEN MORE.

Over time, I'm willing to bet that there is some cytokine induced
damage to the Islet of langerhans located in the Pancreas.

Fonz

 

[Frackal]

Fonz, how does 10ius of exogenus insulin raise cytokine levels any more than taking in a large quantity of sugar....and please address the post at Anabolic fitness regarding this thread...

Also can you translate that study.... what exactly is TNF signaling and how would it contribute to pancreatic damage down the line.

Also, why would exogenus insulin raise cytokine levels more than endo insuiln?

 

[Fonz]

Cytokine increases over time.

Thats the problem.

What happens then?

You give yourself an AUTO-IMMUNE disease.

i.e. Type II diabetic most likely.

You have actually seen this happenning today.

Some Pro's are Type II diabetics now.

I'll try to give you an analogy:

Alcohol is a neuro-toxin. It kills brain cells.
However, you have MANY brain cells.

In by itself, alcohol will not cause brain damage,
but you WILL LOSE BRAIN CELLS.

Same is true for the pancreatic beta cells.

You CAN KILL THEM.

Cytokines damage and destroy the beta cells.

Make no mistake about it, insulin is dangerous
if used long-term.

Now, what exactly is long-term Fonz?

I have NO CLUE.

And thats the scary part.

Fonz

 

[graffixx]

have any of the insulin users here tried GH alone and then compared their results to the results obtained from using the SAME GH in the SAME amounts with the SAME AAS with the slin tossed in to the stack??? i would not even be interested, and would not have picked up any slin at all if not for the folks telling me that GH without slin & T3 was being wasted... any opinions???

 

[switchblade-customs]

I don't know about slin use for BB but here is a recommendation. If you do use it, make sure, no matter how experienced you are with it, that you are around people for a couple hours after use. If you have ever seen someone go into a diabetic siezure due to their sugar bottoming out you'll know why. Just a suggestion.

 

[HighIntensity]

Nelson I happen to come across a certain article "steroids for health" that you wrote in tmag which left me perplexed as to the extent of your knowledge in the field of anabolics:




"The general public, however, has been bombarded with a reefer-madness like hysteria for so long that they can hardly be blamed for thinking that anabolic steroids are on par with heroin (both schedule II drugs) as a life-threatening substance



Keep in mind that an injectable steroid is active for two to three weeks after injection so it is at the end of that time that you can begin to consider yourself "clean."

...all of the testosterones (with the possible exception of Sustanon) can cause problems, especially in the older athlete. Parabolin is very anabolic and not very androgenic, yet it has other toxic qualities. The only rational choices among the injectables are Primobolan and Deca Durabolin.

Take your first 200 mg shot of Deca on day-one. Wait three days and do another 200 mgs. Wait four days and do another 200 mgs. Five days later do 100 mgs of Deca. After a week, do your last shot of 100 mgs of Deca. In this way, there will be an abundance of the drugs in the bloodstream when the growth stage is at its peak and it provides enough of a gradual decrease to allow for the body to begin readjusting and "cleansing itself." This [Deca] may be of little consequence since this protocol won't inhibit the testicular axis for very long. "


whos whistling in the dark now biatch?