HYPOTHYRODISM from T3 --> Help !!!!

[junk]

Appreciate it...

Fonz and others, I would appreciate answers to the following points I've outlined that puzzle me:

* Fonz do you really think I can live with having 40% strength in the gym? Totally depressed and tired for 8 weeks?!?!? That's insane. Gee... I really feel like shit, no way to describe the lethargy. Why did my TSH become so low? Like it's more Hyperthyrodism than Hypothyrodim, while Free T4 looked ok and T3 looked fucked up?

* I didn't know Clen had any bad property on the Thyroid. I thought this was only with NYC and ECA not with Clen. But if you say so I take it. Thing is I didn't want to fucking loose everything I've worked for so hard in the gym. But you're the guru.


* MOST IMPORTANT Question: Do you think I should still go on with a very low caloric diet (about 1700 cals) along with 60 minutes (@70voMax) cardio every morning and 3 times a week weight-training?
I mean, I should do whatever I can to speed up metabolism right? But it will also probably kill all my muscle tissues completely because I've just finished my cutting cycle and started clomid. So I am lost here.

* ALSO BTW: I've checked my Prolactin levels yesterday (just in case cause High prolactin can cause hypothyrodism). Prolactin levels came out good at LESS than 0.5 (Normal 0-15) So I also stopped the bromo in fear that maybe that may have caused me low blood pressure or something.

 

[nandi12]

T3 : Ng/DL < 40 (Normal range: 72-170)

FT4: Ng/DL 1.2 (Normal range: 0.8-1.9)

TSH: iu/ml 0.60 (Normal range: 0.40-4.00)

These data do not in themselves indicate hypothyroidism; on the contrary they suggest you are normal. It would have been nice to have gotten a free T3 value. Total T3 is not meaningful for someone who has been using steroids within a window of several weeks before a thyroid test.

AAS lower thyroid binding globulin levels (TBG) which leads to low TOTAL T3 and T4 but free values remain normal. Notice your free T4 and TSH are normal. This indicates your thyroid is fine. If you were hypothyroid TSH would be high and free T4 would be low.

There is another possibility, but it is impossible to know without a free T3 value. T4 is converted to T3 by the enzyme deiodinase. A low calorie diet lowers deiodinase levels, leading to normal T4 and normal TSH but low T3.


www.cuttingedgemuscle.com

 

[DaMan]

These data do not in themselves indicate hypothyroidism; on the contrary they suggest you are normal. It would have been nice to have gotten a free T3 value. Total T3 is not meaningful for someone who has been using steroids within a window of several weeks before a thyroid test.

AAS lower thyroid binding globulin levels (TBG) which leads to low TOTAL T3 and T4 but free values remain normal. Notice your free T4 and TSH are normal. This indicates your thyroid is fine. If you were hypothyroid TSH would be high and free T4 would be low.

There is another possibility, but it is impossible to know without a free T3 value. T4 is converted to T3 by the enzyme deiodinase. A low calorie diet lowers deiodinase levels, leading to normal T4 and normal TSH but low T3.


www.cuttingedgemuscle.com

nandi - could you give a comprehensive list of tests one should take when on T3 or anything that affects thyroid output? I get my bloodwork done religiously pre-, on-, and post-cycle and test for the following (as far as thyroid goes)

TSH
T3-uptake
Total T3
Free T4

What else? (Insurance pays and doctor is very cooperative, so slap on whatever you think necessary).

 

[nandi12]

The ones you listed are adequate to determine your thyroid status, DaMan. Free T3 is not generally measured in a routine panel because it has technical pitfalls that make the results hard to interpret.

If you have normal TSH and normal Free T4 then your thyroid is working fine. If those come out normal, but you have the symptoms of hypothyroidism, then the problem may be in the conversion of T4 to T3 (Wilson's Syndrome, or in severe cases it is called Euthyroid Sick Syndrome).

If your insurance won't pay for a free T4 then get the total T4, T3 resin uptake and TSH. My Merck Manual claims these "permit a valid interpretation of thyroid status in virtually all patients"

 

[DaMan]

Thx nandi!

Is T3-"RESIN"-uptake the same as T3-uptake?

 

[nandi12]

Yes, they are the same. Also sometimes denoted THBR. If you get your thyroid checked while on T3, your TSH and T4 will be low, while T3 will be high. This will be a tipoff to a smart doc that you are using T3. Just a heads up, in case you don't want your doc to know.

 

[DaMan]

Yes, they are the same. Also sometimes denoted THBR. If you get your thyroid checked while on T3, your TSH and T4 will be low, while T3 will be high. This will be a tipoff to a smart doc that you are using T3. Just a heads up, in case you don't want your doc to know.

Actually my doc is the one who prescribed me the T3 (and gear) and orders my bloodwork but thx for looking out

(Others - don't ask. Seriously.)

 

[nandi12]

Actually my doc is the one who prescribed me the T3 (and gear) and orders my bloodwork

Cool. In that case, just for fun to see how high your T3 gets, I would tell the doc you were curious about that and you'd like either a total serum T3 and /or free T3 test.

Ive seen a study where they looked at nine normal men, on doses of 25, 50, and 75 mcg per day of T3

Baseline total T3 was 160ng/dl. 25 mcg raised it to 178; 50mcg to 202; and 75mcg to 251.

For Free T3 baseline was 400 pg/dl. 25 mcg raised it to 423; 50 mcg to 459; and 75mcg to 568

 

[junk]

thanks a lot nandi12, you know your shit, that's for sure.

I asked the lab over and over regarding Free T3, and they don't have it there (It's a national lab in my country) Their Thyroid panel is only the results I've stated before.

My TSH was 0.60 which is even close to Hyperthyrodism in fact.
My Free T4 came normal,
but but Total T3 is horrible, it's LESS than 40 while normal just even begins with 76!

Anyway, I have the symptoms very aggrevated, no way to go wrong here. I have the symtoms of Hypothyrodism. So I have at least a temporary thyroid problem, maybe Medically speaking it's not Hypothyrodism, but bottom line is my metabolic rate is probably 40% lower than normal people and I feel like shit.

 

[nandi12]

I'd give myself a bit more time to recover. I seriously doubt the T3 permanently damaged your thyroid. Without knowing your free T3 it is impossible to tell (as far as I know) whether you are having a problem converting the T4 into T3.

There is an argument in the medical community over just how common is the problem of a low rate of conversion of T4 to T3. The majority of doctors probably believe "Wilson's Syndrome" is not real, others believe it is very real and quite common. The problem is compounded by the fact that the majority of people who complain of being hypothyroid yet show normal thyroid results are women. Unfortunately doctors are known to tell female patients that "it is all in your head" when they present with a problem the doctor can't solve.

There is also a division in the medical community about whether low dose thyroid hormone should be given to patients who have "subclinical hypothyroidism". These people usually present with a high normal TSH and normal hormone levels, but complain of hypothyroid symptoms. Again, since the majority are women, they are often not given thyroid hormones. My wife is in this group. The docs kept saying "you're normal" and would not prescribe T3 or T4. So she just started treating herself and now she fells 100% better. (Not that this is your problem though because your TSH is low normal)

You could try an ECA stack to boost metabolism. Ephedrine used for a short period (a few weeks) enhances the conversion of T4 to T3 (1). If you started feeling better it would suggest that conversion might be your problem.

In any case, I hope you start feeling better soon.

(1) Am J Clin Nutr 1985 Jul;42(1):83-94

Enhanced thermogenic responsiveness during chronic ephedrine treatment in man.

Astrup A, Lundsgaard C, Madsen J, Christensen NJ.

The thermogenic effect of a single oral dose of ephedrine (1 mg/kg body weight) was studied by indirect calorimetry in five women with 14% overweight before, during and 2 mo after 3 mo of chronic ephedrine treatment (20 mg, perorally, three times daily). Before treatment and 2 mo after its cessation a similar thermogenic response to ephedrine was observed. The total extra consumption of oxygen was 1.3 1 before and 1.2 1 after cessation of the chronic treatment. After 4 and 12 wk of treatment ephedrine elicited a more sustained response, the extra oxygen consumption in the 3 h following ephedrine intake being 7.0 and 6.9 1, respectively. The ratio of serum T3 to T4 increased significantly after 4 wk of treatment (15.6 +/- 1.3 vs 19.4 +/- 2.4; p less than 0.05), but decreased below the initial value after 12 wk treatment. The mean body weight was significantly reduced after 4 and 12 wk of treatment (2.5 and 5.5 kg, respectively). An improved capacity for beta-adrenergic induced thermogenesis may be useful in the treatment of obesity.