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HYPOTHYRODISM from T3 --> Help !!!!
- Thread starter junk
- Start date
Yo, Fonz -- that was totally called for bro. This guy is being rude -- he deserves the same. Who decided that he should decide who may post or not? I find it very funny when someone can come off like an asshole, then they get all pissy when they're put in their place.
I'm trying to provide responsible information here and I get shit in my face? Tell you what DeMan: If you think this board isn't big enough for the two of us, let the members decide who should leave. If they vote me out, I will go without an argument and never return. Will you do the same? If not, shut the fuck up.
And for anyone who is interested, Gugglesterones are estrogenic. Just thought you'd like to know -- if that's okay with you DeMan.
I'm trying to provide responsible information here and I get shit in my face? Tell you what DeMan: If you think this board isn't big enough for the two of us, let the members decide who should leave. If they vote me out, I will go without an argument and never return. Will you do the same? If not, shut the fuck up.
And for anyone who is interested, Gugglesterones are estrogenic. Just thought you'd like to know -- if that's okay with you DeMan.
Nelson Montana said:
Jesus, who pissed in your Wheaties... you're a specimen of composure my friend. Now stop watching the Clint Eastwood marathon on TNN and get back to calling board members "fucking morons"
Hey what ever happened to Corky from "Life Goes On"?
PS - If getting any votes will really help with your self-esteem, go ahead and post the poll... try to spell my name right when you do it, though.
BTW junk, check out this article, may help you.
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/5/4/306.html
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/5/4/306.html
junk
New member
Thanks for DaMan, Fonz & Nelson. Thanks for understanding this is NOT an easy situation for me, and this is certainly an intelligent thread (unlike threads like:Show I chew dbols or not).
Now on to several points:
* Fonz do you really think I can live with having 40% strength in the gym? Totally depressed and tired for 8 weeks?!?!? That's insane. Gee... I really feel like shit, no way to describe the lethargy. Why did my TSH become so low? Like it's more Hyperthyrodism than Hypothyrodim, while Free T4 looked ok and T3 looked fucked up?
* I didn't know Clen had any bad property on the Thyroid. I thought this was only with NYC and ECA not with Clen. But if you say so I take it. Thing is I didn't want to fucking loose everything I've worked for so hard in the gym. But you're the guru.
* I can't get Acetyl
* Fonz, what do you say about DaMan's suggestion on 100mg DNP ?
* MOST IMPORTANT Question: Do you think I should still go on with a very low caloric diet (about 1700 cals) along with 60 minutes (@70voMax) cardio every morning and 3 times a week weight-training?
I mean, I should do whatever I can to speed up metabolism right? But it will also probably kill all my muscle tissues completely because I've just finished my cutting cycle and started clomid. So I am lost here.
Thanks again (I wouldn't bullshit your heads if I didn't feel so fucking BAD)
Now on to several points:
* Fonz do you really think I can live with having 40% strength in the gym? Totally depressed and tired for 8 weeks?!?!? That's insane. Gee... I really feel like shit, no way to describe the lethargy. Why did my TSH become so low? Like it's more Hyperthyrodism than Hypothyrodim, while Free T4 looked ok and T3 looked fucked up?
* I didn't know Clen had any bad property on the Thyroid. I thought this was only with NYC and ECA not with Clen. But if you say so I take it. Thing is I didn't want to fucking loose everything I've worked for so hard in the gym. But you're the guru.
* I can't get Acetyl
* Fonz, what do you say about DaMan's suggestion on 100mg DNP ?
* MOST IMPORTANT Question: Do you think I should still go on with a very low caloric diet (about 1700 cals) along with 60 minutes (@70voMax) cardio every morning and 3 times a week weight-training?
I mean, I should do whatever I can to speed up metabolism right? But it will also probably kill all my muscle tissues completely because I've just finished my cutting cycle and started clomid. So I am lost here.
Thanks again (I wouldn't bullshit your heads if I didn't feel so fucking BAD)
I get pissed because I can't stand, coy, passive aggresive little weasals. If you're going to confront someone, do it like a man, not like a pussy. Don't misquote someone, throw snide little disparaging remarks their way, then stand back like you're so imperious.
Don't start what you can't finish dude.
100 mgs of DNP. Yeah, that's great advice.
100 mgs of DNP. Yeah, that's great advice.
drgoodbody
New member
this is an old discussion...
I had this very same discussion years ago on Renegade BB and on UG with "The Raver" who was a mod there. The following is from a column by "Brock Strasser" (aka Bruce Kneller) at T-mag.
----------- Excerpt below----------------
Thyroid Hormones = Permanent Suppression?
For years, many of us have been repeating, with little scientific evidence, that if you used too much thyroid hormone for too long you'd permanently screw up your brain/thyroid axis, end up with a permanent case of hypothyroidism and be a fat, slow slob on maintenance level Synthroid (T4) for the rest of your life.
This "urban legend" was first postulated by my mentor, Dan Duchaine (may peace be upon him) and propagated further over the years by a bunch of "fitness queens" who lived on Cytomel, looked great, ate like truck drivers and got as big as a leather couch when they stopped the Cytomel. For years, we blamed it on some thyroidic suppression. Well, folks, we wuz' wrong!
I've been listening to the experience of a guy named "Raver" on a steroid message board and have been monitoring his experiences with Cytomel over the last year. Raver is convinced that T3 does not cause permanent suppression, even at 150-300 mcg per day for long periods of time. And it turns out, he was 100% correct!
Make no mistake about it, using exogenous thyroid hormones will suppress your own production of endogenous thyroid hormone and you will be hypothyroidic for a few weeks when you come off. But as many people can tell you, this state isn't permanent. This got me to thinking, so I started snooping around the medical school library archives. I soon dug up an old article from the NEJM for your perusal and I only wish I'd discovered this thing five years ago. Check it out:
N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.
The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.
After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal.
Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.
Translation: At least in women (and I'd venture to say men, too) the body will bounce back to baseline in a month or so. This is important information for people using any type of thyroid-based drug to lose fat. It should tell you that you need to be really vigilant for about a month after stopping such drugs with regard to diet and cardio.
Thanks, Raver!
---------------
It was about time the Rave got his props and Brock let it be known. Too bad Rave is rec. drug addict now
DrG
I had this very same discussion years ago on Renegade BB and on UG with "The Raver" who was a mod there. The following is from a column by "Brock Strasser" (aka Bruce Kneller) at T-mag.
----------- Excerpt below----------------
Thyroid Hormones = Permanent Suppression?
For years, many of us have been repeating, with little scientific evidence, that if you used too much thyroid hormone for too long you'd permanently screw up your brain/thyroid axis, end up with a permanent case of hypothyroidism and be a fat, slow slob on maintenance level Synthroid (T4) for the rest of your life.
This "urban legend" was first postulated by my mentor, Dan Duchaine (may peace be upon him) and propagated further over the years by a bunch of "fitness queens" who lived on Cytomel, looked great, ate like truck drivers and got as big as a leather couch when they stopped the Cytomel. For years, we blamed it on some thyroidic suppression. Well, folks, we wuz' wrong!
I've been listening to the experience of a guy named "Raver" on a steroid message board and have been monitoring his experiences with Cytomel over the last year. Raver is convinced that T3 does not cause permanent suppression, even at 150-300 mcg per day for long periods of time. And it turns out, he was 100% correct!
Make no mistake about it, using exogenous thyroid hormones will suppress your own production of endogenous thyroid hormone and you will be hypothyroidic for a few weeks when you come off. But as many people can tell you, this state isn't permanent. This got me to thinking, so I started snooping around the medical school library archives. I soon dug up an old article from the NEJM for your perusal and I only wish I'd discovered this thing five years ago. Check it out:
N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4
Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.
Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.
The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.
After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal.
Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.
Translation: At least in women (and I'd venture to say men, too) the body will bounce back to baseline in a month or so. This is important information for people using any type of thyroid-based drug to lose fat. It should tell you that you need to be really vigilant for about a month after stopping such drugs with regard to diet and cardio.
Thanks, Raver!
---------------
It was about time the Rave got his props and Brock let it be known. Too bad Rave is rec. drug addict now
DrG
This is a case of "Brock" whistling in the dark. He's used thyroid meds and wants to believe it's okay.
Dan was right about this one. And yes, there are plenty of people who screwed themselves up with cytomel, levothyroxin and even triacana. You must realize there aren't too many cotrolled clinical studies done on abuse of thyroid med on humans. Who would volunteer?
The study posted in sketchy and nconclusive, but even if one assumes the conclusions are correct, the thyroid will be suprressed for up to a month (maybe longer) whch is MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME to gain back all the fat lost -- and then some
Now will someone explain to me why they would be okay with this?
Dan was right about this one. And yes, there are plenty of people who screwed themselves up with cytomel, levothyroxin and even triacana. You must realize there aren't too many cotrolled clinical studies done on abuse of thyroid med on humans. Who would volunteer?
The study posted in sketchy and nconclusive, but even if one assumes the conclusions are correct, the thyroid will be suprressed for up to a month (maybe longer) whch is MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME to gain back all the fat lost -- and then some
Now will someone explain to me why they would be okay with this?
