hi

[ariel]

Temple,

About 2 years ago, and into last year dieted for too long and too hard...So I would say starving to a large degree here was the diet I followed for about 5 months

5 oz chicken .5 oz nuts...6 times a day with 1 hour cardio 7 days a week...Dancing 3 nights a week...training 6 days a week

.....Divorced, started a life on my own, all the stress stuff made me sometimes undereat, sometiems over eat, and yes I started throwing up a lot at the end there...So binging but I always got rid of it...Then I said, I must be nuts....Came clean with everyone close to me, and pretty much watched my bod go from sub 10% to gosh knows what...Now, there is nothing besides cellulite and lower bodyfat coming on at a rapid rate...I did indeed follow a strictly clean NO CHEATS, no cheat days, diet with a trainer for about 6 weeks, my own diet prior...NO CHANGE...Lost muscle, gained fat....Next to no cardio...Cals at 1900. Then after a year of that and the recent trainer, I knew I could not live with being obese which I see coming...

....Now, the eating too little is just a plain requirement to even stay below 25%bodyfat. I am good with the eating now, my thoughts are that this is where my body will feel comfortable at, so I don't think about food very much if at all...Eat 5-6 times a day...Just decided to lower my fat a bit and up pro as per most on this board...Going to add a more refined carb meal 1 time a week and feel no guilt...I do only see this adding fat, but I must make peace with food...I want and like being strong, healthy and don't even mind big....Kinda like big...But not big and fat...

My DOCTOR(SHE) Did the blood work and sent it to a very educated compounding pharicist in Arizona...He took the reign and basicly asked me what I wanted...So, the Doctor gave the pharmacy the ability to prescribe me basicly what I want...I want to ask for 10% test cream, or T3..Yeah I know I know...But i am in tune with my body and have been training since I have been 17...I mean in the gym 4 days a week training and I do believe issues abound....I pretty much have to get Drs to do any of this as I am in Hawaii, not much of stuff going around AT ALL...And I don't trust anyone.

Fitfossil,

The fact that you are very lean makes me think that the test might not be the only reason.....Did you notice any bodyfat increase, more muscle soreness fatigue and emotional upheaval?

ariel

 

[FitFossil]

Fitfossil,

The fact that you are very lean makes me think that the test might not be the only reason.....Did you notice any bodyfat increase, more muscle soreness fatigue and emotional upheaval?

ariel

Hi Ariel,
Not sure I understand what your're asking me when you say "The fact that you are very lean makes me think that the test might not be the only reason...... Reason for.....? - my symptoms or leanness? I've had a variety of symptoms, so to answer your question I need to make sure I understand what you're asking me. (I'm trying hard to keep my posts short and to the point, because I know I have a tendency to go on a bit .)

On "Did you notice any bodyfat increase, more muscle soreness fatigue and emotional upheaval?" - do you mean before or after I started the test cream? (This is my second day on it and it's too soon for any effects.)

 

[Temple]

I'm no MS or W6 but off the top of my head I would say go with the test cream and get your levels up to normal. I don't think it should take as long as you think. Forget the T3 - without an AAS )more than the cream) you are going to create a bigger problem than the one you have.
Cycle the carbs and pay close attention to the source of the carbs - see Spatt's cutting diet
Add some r-ala, this might help you more than anything
Try training EOD to start
Cardio on non training days first thing am empty stomach.
One day per week completely off
Pay close attention to your sleep - make sure you are getting 8 hours.
Give it 12 weeks and adjust a tad along the way depending on how your body is responding.

 

[ariel]

Fitfossil,

Sorry, I meant in a day dreamy voice, guess that is not the only reason (meaning MY only reason, I am so vain) Basicly, you are really lean, I am having trouble eating a normal cal diet and keep the fat off..I have low test, so do you.How are we the same????

..Now, my only thought is...

How old are you?? I am 24 so I bet I have TONS of estrogen to puff me up when the test is low...I believe you are in your late 30s, sorry if I am mistaking you for someone else...But, I guess between the 30s and 40s estrogen drops along with everything else...My guess...I have high e levels and low levels of everything else...My theory anyways.. And Fitfossil, I like your long posts...You should always share wisdom and knowledge, and you seem to have an abundance...

Temple, OK so a normal diet would consist of some higher gi foods than oats? See I am having a problem with not dieting, or just dieting...Just want a clean healthy balanced cal and carb adequate diet with some normal eating every week or 2 and not get pudgy.

I also get very erratic sleep...Despite my best intentions I simply cannot sleep well during the day...I work at night, although do to unforseen ass growing I have taken some time off, but still kinda go back to a few hours here and there in the day...First things first going to sleep for 8 hours no matter what is going on today..

More later

 

[Temple]

Lower GI foods such as oats, yams and lots and lots and lots of green vegetables. Very little fruit. A cheat meal a week will keep you sane.

Lack of sleep will mess with your hormones. Get some ear plugs and one of those masks that go over your eyes. Sleep is critical.

Don't guess about what your hormone levels are. Have the doc test all of them. It is always helpful if you can post the exact test results.

Also, none of us WANT to carb cycle and keep track of exactly what we eat but we have to decide if we want our ass to look the way that we want it to or do we want to just eat the way that we want to eat.

 

[ariel]

Temple,

I have had estrogen, progesterone, DHEAS, TSH, T3, all tested...No health insurance by the way

Problem is without a "known" menstrual cycle, it is very hard to pinpoint low or high estrogen...The levels really cover a broad range, from 0 to 200 depending on luteal phase ect...

You have been a great help, and now for personal issues...I believe if things keep the way they are, I will be 10-20 pounds FATTER in 12 weeks. This would require a large overhaul of values, ideas education and just plain how am I gonna pay my rent???? I have lost bodyfat a few months ago, but I have to STARVE it off eat BMR, and it is not much fat loss at all, but atleast I don't gain...May be my late nights and over use of hormones that have depleted me...No, I have never felt totally OK with it all, maybe it is the bodies way of telling me no more..

Now for speaking things into existance...I am going to eat 2000 cals a day(as I have been but yesterday it was 1600 and 2 days ago 2100)...Do spatts split...with long walk 60 mims. 2 to 3 times a week...That is more cardio and more carbs than I have been doing...Can continuedlow carbs have a very bad effect on the body? I know to carb up, so I just let my cheat days(non scheduled) be my carb up, but have not let my body eat carbs to any large degree...Well, wait I had a dietian do my diet a good 4 or 5 months ago and I gained some bodyfat on 200grams a day..Basicly do you think my body is just going to have to readjust, put on some fat and then maybe drop it again? I never waited that higher carb diet out, maybe 6 weeks...I was just too afraid of any fat gain, even if it meant a leaner body later on...See I am a nut, I belonged in a time where robust women were worshipped...

I will post my lab results when I find them later on..The lab does put down what is normal and what is not, gives you a grid to figure it out...

OK, on to positive thinking...

ariel

 

[Temple]

What do you mean by "over use of hormones"??? Have you done AAS???

 

[FitFossil]

Fitfossil,

Sorry, I meant in a day dreamy voice, guess that is not the only reason (meaning MY only reason, I am so vain) Basicly, you are really lean, I am having trouble eating a normal cal diet and keep the fat off..I have low test, so do you.How are we the same????

..Now, my only thought is...

How old are you?? I am 24 so I bet I have TONS of estrogen to puff me up when the test is low...I believe you are in your late 30s, sorry if I am mistaking you for someone else...But, I guess between the 30s and 40s estrogen drops along with everything else...My guess...I have high e levels and low levels of everything else...My theory anyways.. And Fitfossil, I like your long posts...You should always share wisdom and knowledge, and you seem to have an abundance...

I'm 39. I was a skinny little kid, and even though I'm lean now, I screwed it up for 20 years, starting at 16 with an eating disorder. When my anorexia turned into bulimia, I gained 50 pounds in a year (boy was that embarrassing). It took many years (+therapy and meds) to get things (brain and body) under control. Then in my early 30's I went on the birth control pill for 2 years and my bodyfat doubled. Being that I was older, my old dieting tricks (like starvation) no longer worked. That's when I started weight training again and came to these boards.

I always just figured my low test symptoms, which I didn't even know were low test, (the most bothersome being no/low libido/response), were related to other things that keep my life interesting (eating disorder, OCD, sleep disorder). Fact is, before I came to these boards, I had no idea how important testosterone was for a woman's overall health (not just for muscle) Actually I was surprised to find out my own test levels were so low, because I've also had problems w/ cystic acne and had to go on Accutane twice. Being on anti-depressants really magnifies the libido problem though, so finally I got up the nerve to ask my doctor.

Like you said, I'm sure you do have more estrogen at 24 than I do. And if your estrogen is too high, your body releases SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) to help combat the high estrogen. Trouble is, SHBG can bind up your other hormones as well. My estrogen tested in the normal range, but my test was very low and progesterone slightly low. Are you or have you ever taken any hormonal birth control (pill, Depo-provera shot?)

 

[ariel]

NO AAS here, meant "overuse" in the whole forced continued expression of a bitch in heat. Just really a joke, but I am pretty sure that the unseen mental state could indeed effect the insides.

Fitfossil, With me I never had a food issue before, I ate tons and was active...I got into to heavy weight training, but never had abs and never looked the part of a bodybuilder.When you tell people you want to compete and you are not ripped they tell you have alot of work to do, like you can't do it, and it really was silly, cuz I was a toned, ok let's say soft and toned but fit and healthy looking young girl...

..So, once I did my first contest diet, I was super lean and pretty muscular for a natty at 21and it really was not too hard to get there..I started dancing AND also started attracting personal training clients on my apperance alone. I thought it strange though that it was my unheathiest time, but people just thought I looked so great. I mean I have been certified but never pushed it into a buisness, but I would be at the gym and daily somoen would just walk up and ask me to train them..I trained alot less, did less ab work ect...It was all about the diet, oh and then it started to be that if I cheated on the diet double cardio...I am sure you know how that goes...

Because I wanted to make a living personal training, and health modalites I got caught up with all the perceptions...How could I be a lifestyle consultant, new age guru and be so disordered myself...But, hey you attract clients if you are so lean you boobs are sacks and ya got veins in your abs..SO I have had to compromise alot of my goals(competeing, personal training, AND wholistic health care work) because while I wish this stuff could go together, they are at odds...I was 5f6i about 110 pounds(lean) but when I started the eating, oh gosh the eating, I got up to about 135, and people would have the gall to ask me what happened to me, whats wrong with me...Heck I even had a guy at the gym nicely ask if I was pregnant...AT 135lbs on a five foot six frame!!!



Not to mention the dancing, women there are so jealous and envious if you take care of yourself don't do coke and X to stay thin...Let me stop losing from a cutting diet, gain 8 pounds, muscle and fat and I am gonna here a girl asking me why am I not "tight"any more? All the things I wanted to do had so much to do with appearance, I am trying not to be nutty with food..It has worked, but at the same time, sad to say, I am getting fatter.

.When I read articles about how women think that their life will be solved if they "JUST LOSE WEIGHT" and that they are mistaken...For me, it just ALL PROVED TOO TRUE...I was REWARDED, with money, esteem and a direction in life, that depended on my leanness not matter how unhealthy. SO I always have this, when I lose bodyfat things will get better, because honestly they were.1


I don't binge eat anymore, although I do have occaisonal semi healthy cheat DAYS, with more sugar than fat as per MS. I will cut to just once a week meal, containing whatever...

I digress, I read a book about a year ago called Breaking out of Food jail, by Jean Antonello...Now, she claims (no bodybuilding stuff here of course) that when I women has had issues of swinging between over eating and undereating and when you FINALLY just eat enough GOOD food you are going to get fat...That is the way the body is.survival..Then, as your body becomes convinced that it will get the food and nutrients over the long term, and you keep feeding yourself clean foods, you will drop whatever it is that you feel you have gained...Although she cautions the unrealistic goals weights, she means healthy weight..

I think I believe this, but I am at a point where my life and goals had so much to do with being lean, that I can't/won't allow my body to get fat, even if I can be healthy...The author Jean, says often times it can take a year of healthy consistant non compulsive clean eating to normalize...I came to this board and asked these questions to see if indeed most have seen this, and if there is anyway to minamizled the damage...If not, that is cool to, I will keep on training, but try and change my prioities until if/and when, I can not be obbsessive...

I a good note, I am not obssessive now, but I also have cellulite for the first time, and don't fit into my clothes.

sorry so long.

ariel

 

[Candi Barr]

Ariel, you’re clearly intelligent & motivated. I really hope you hear from some people who have personal knowledge of what you’re going through and can give you good advice. It sounds like you have found some good material already. This type of struggle would be stressful for anyone, but has to be much worse if one’s income depends on one’s personal attractiveness. Feel free to ignore me, but some of your comments have headed this way. Are you thinking seriously about what else you might do? Maybe look into some educational programs and financial aid? You mentioned an interest in holistic health, and you had done some training. The best trainers I know don’t rely on exceptional looks to get clients, it’s their knowledge, patience, and ability to motivate their people. You’re learning a lot from what you’re going through. Just think, who is in the better position to teach, someone who is so genetically gifted she has a good body whatever, or someone who has to study and struggle and experiment? Suppose you were to seriously pursue a career as a trainer and nutritionist, what would be your next steps?