Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I keep a good diet usually... Lots of chicken and tuna. Since I have mainly been natural I eat a lot of red meat. Can someone advise me an diet while on? Lots of chicken and tuna I know. I will be on a test , eq cycle does different gear need different diet. Also does gear and Xenadrine or any other fat burners ok to mix? Thanks beforehand
diet while juicin?
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My old CKD article I wrote for George24 by by Kakdiesel
old CKD article I wrote for George24....
Its in the archives so I couldnt "bump" it back up here and instead of giving you the link i'll just repost it for ya enjoy
It has come to my attention recently by some emails from fellow bro's on elite that I should say something about cyclical ketogenic diets. I wrote an article on it for a sports supplement company's newsletter a while back and this is for any of you who are interested in this. Of course, I have left out my name on it to hide my identity since I've more than openly talked about steroid use on this board. However, I do not sell, or advocate the use of illegal substances nor does the company I wrote this article for: Enjoy
The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss
In recent media, low carbohydrate diets have been THE fad for almost everybody in America wanting to lose weight. From your secretaries, elementary school teachers, and desk clerks, to bodybuilders, models, actresses, and athletes.
However, there is a huge difference between those who follow an Atkins plan and those who follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). Atkins is a low carb plan for those who are quite sedentary, walk maybe 3 times a week at the most, and just follow normal everyday activities. So forget Atkins here. The CKD is for those who’s main concern is true fat loss and muscle preservation—muscle for sports and high intensity activities.
My opinion for those who practice Atkins is that while they do lose fat, there is much water loss and most importantly muscle loss. Something we athletes do not want. A CKD is a true fat loss diet that works undeniably, if followed properly and strictly. Yes, low carb diets can be hell at first, but after two to three weeks, there have been anecdotal reports from many dieters that the cravings for carbohydrates decrease. This route to fat burning is unlike any traditional diet all the low-fat diet authors and FDA people have been advocating in history.
I got turned onto this diet a few years back when I got tired of cutting fat and still not being able to lose those last percentage points of bodyfat without losing hard earned muscle. I would start a low-fat diet, and be a either a social misfit (not going out with my friends to party or not going out to eat). Or in the worse case, feel so deprived of delicious junk foods I missed and bail out on the diet all together. One advantage to this diet is that there is no true restrictions on food. One may eat anything labeled a "food"! Well, almost. I’ll explain later.
How the diet works.
The science behind the CKD is simple. Carbohydrates in the diet cause an insulin (a "storage" hormone) output in the pancreas. It is used to store glycogen, amino acids into muscles, while causing excess calories to be stored as fat. So common sense asks me, "How can one try to break down fat, when your body is in a storage-type mode?" Difficult to do, indeed. That is why it makes perfect sense for step one to be cutting carbs.
The next thing that happens in your body is the rise in catecholamines (a "fat mobilizing" hormone), cortisol (a "breakdown" hormone), and growth hormone. Now your body realizes there’s no more carbs to burn for energy, so it must find another energy source: fat.
This usually happens during a metabolic condition called "ketosis." This is when your liver is out of glycogen and starts to produce ketones (by-products of fatty acids). You can check your status of whether or not you are in ketosis with urinalysis strips you can pick up at any local drug store called "Ketostix." Just urinate and see if it turns color. If so, you have ketones in the urine.
When the body is fed fat and protein, it will use dietary fat along with bodyfat for energy with protein going towards repair.
As a side note, there is another reason why this diet makes the most sense to use while keeping muscle. When one follows a high carbohydrate, low-fat, reduced-calorie diet, there’s a point when some bodyfat is burned, but when the body is still in a carbohydrate burning metabolism while trying to lose "weight," it will strip down precious body protein to convert to glucose for energy.
On the other hand, during fat metabolism, protein cannot be converted into free-fatty acids for energy. Although there is no scientific research done on this, there have been reports from followers that there truly is a "protein-sparing" effect. It makes sense doesn’t it? Where else would the body look for fat energy when all dietary fat is burned? Bodyfat.
Diet Requirements Mon. to Fri.
The phrase "working smarter, not harder" applies here more than any diet one has tried. One must fully understand what they must do in order to optimize their goal. To set a CKD up, one cannot just expect to cut all carbs in the diet, train hard, and lose fat! Although some have come up with variations to this plan, the one stated in this article, I have found, has worked for myself (it got me to 6% BF), and other clients I’ve trained to the leanest, hardest they’ve ever been.
First, to set up the diet, write down your lean mass weight. Not your total weight, dough boy. If you weigh 200, but have 20% bodyfat, your lean mass weight would be around 160 pounds. Multiply this by one, getting your grams of protein requirements for a day. Make sure you eat at least one gram of protein/pound of lean mass! This is important in recovery from workouts and enough nitrogen retention to keep muscle. Next, multiply by four, to get your protein calories. Here, it is 640.
The rest of your caloric requirements for the day should be fat. Here is the catch: you must eat fat to burn fat. There’s no way around it. There are many advantages to dietary fat on this diet: Feeling of fullness since fat digestion is slow (less hunger), tastes great, and lowers blood glucose levels (lowering insulin and allow all the fat burning hormones to do their job).
So how much fat? I always recommend starting out with a 500 calorie deficit from your maintenance calories. If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.
2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.
The Weekend Carb Load
Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won’t happen on the CKD.
Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.
Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday. Now the next important issue to address is how many carbs. Some lucky individuals find that they eat whatever they want for the 24-30 hour time interval and receive perfect glycogen compensation, while others rely on a better statistical number.
What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.
100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.
A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.
So what about dietary fat? I know you’re reminding yourself, "Didn’t this guy mention pizza?" Yes, I did. And here’s why. During the first 24-30 hours of carbing up, the body will use all dietary carbohydrates to refill glycogen, protein for rebuilding, and get this: fat for energy. Still?
Just like the previous five and a half days. Makes sense. When all the carbohydrates are being used for more important functions (muscle), what else is there to be used? However, you can’t just eat all the fat you want. Keep grams of fat intake below your body weight in kilograms. Again, here our example will keep is fat below 73 during the carb-fest.
By anecdotal reports, this should keep fat regain minimal to nil. Keeping fat intake extremely low has even caused some extra fat burning during the carb up!
But people who have tried this, myself included, have complaints about insulin swings from the quick digestion of carbs: High, low, high, low. Not very fun when you want to enjoy your weekend. Some just fall into a sugar coma and sleep all day. Kind of like after eating all those sweet potatoes, mashed potatoes, and pumpkin pie after Thanksgiving dinner. Its not ONLY the tryptophan in turkey that causes sleep!
As stated before, some dietary fat should be eaten to slow digestion and keep sugar levels stable. Whether it be saturated, unsaturated, or essential fats, is the dieter’s decision. All have nine calories per gram. (Note: there is a claim that essential fatty acids such as flax seed oil increase insulin sensitivity within the muscle cells, in turn, increasing glycogen intake.)
In Case You Missed It
So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.
Some have found to enjoy a protein shake afterwards because they are easily digested. Do whatever works for you. But fat is not logical since you want the protein to fuel the healing process as quickly as possible and fat will only slow it down.
Friday afternoon, around two hours before your last workout of the week, eat two to three pieces of fruit. This will get your body/liver ready to start the carb loading and give you some energy for that final, dreadful workout (trust me, during the first few weeks, you will not want to do that final workout, but you must). Then from Friday night until Saturday at midnight or until bed, eat those carbs!
CKD Workout
Now, the question is, how do we workout to optimize muscle preservation and keep our metabolism up while dieting? Before we get into that, one must realize that during any dieting scheme there is one thing that must be done, and one thing that must not be done.
First, you must keep training volume lower than your usual routine. Overtraining is probably the number one killer in motivation, it deprives sleep, and hinders fat loss.
Second, you must not fall into the myth of lighter weights with higher reps. You got your muscle by benching 240, and you have to bench 240 to keep that same muscle! Or at least around that area! Okay, now that we have that established, here’s what we do:
On Monday and Tuesday we will work our weaker body parts, rest or cardio on Wednesday and Thursday mornings, Thursday do our strongest body parts, and Friday a combination of the Monday/Tuesday workouts in a loop format. The workout I have found to work optimally for myself and my clients is this:
(Note: You may feel free to tweak, shake, and turn this example upside down.
Everybody is different, so find what works for you.)
MONDAY: Chest, Back, Abs
High intensity workouts with 60 sec rest between sets, 90 sec rest between
each exercise
(this excludes all warm up sets)
Bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps
T-bar Row 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Incline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Latpulldown to front 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Dips or Decline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Shrugs 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Flys (any type) 2 sets, 10-12 reps
Reverse flys 2 sets, 10-12 reps
Stiff-leg deadlift 3 sets, 10-12 reps
Rope ab crunch 3 sets, 10-15 reps
Reverse crunch 3 sets, 10-20 reps
TUESDAY: Shoulders, Arms
Same intensity mentioned before
Behind the neck shoulder press 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Military press 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Preacher curls 3 sets, 8-10 reps
French press or "skull-crushers" 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Shoulder raises (any type) 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Hammers 3 sets, 8-10 reps
V-bar tricep press 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Reverse forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Wednesday: Rest or Cardio
Thursday morning: Rest or Cardio
Later on Thursday: Legs
Same intensity mentioned before
Squat or Leg press 4 sets, 6-10 reps
Lying leg curl 4 sets, 6-10 reps
Standing calf raise 4 sets 6-10 reps
Leg extensions 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Seated leg curl 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Seated calf raise 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Friday night: Final Workout
Same intensity mentioned before
Bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps
T-bar Row 2 sets, 6-10 reps
Incline bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps
Latpulldown to front 2 sets, 6-10 reps
Behind the neck shoulder press 1 set, 8-10 reps
Military press 1 set, 8-10 reps
Either curl exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Either tricep exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Stiffleg deadift 1 set, 8-10 reps
Normal floor ab crunch 2 sets, 10-20 reps
Reverse crunches 2 sets, 10-20 reps
Start the carb up for 24-30 hours!
Aerobics
Before we go on, I want to address the cardio/aerobics issue. Some people find that for the first month on a CKD, cardio/aerobics is not needed. However when fat loss does start to slow down a bit, that is when most start adding 30 min. sessions on their off days. Be careful though, you do not want to hinder your Thursday leg workout. So experiment and try to only add aerobic sessions if you feel you have to.
Supplements
So we have the basic diet outline stated, the workout, now what about supplements? Things that can extremely optimize this diet regime. Well, I have to admit no allegiance to any supplement company on this one: Water. Water is important on any diet, especially low carb since there is a diuretic effect, and more importantly during the carbing period. Glycogen is stored with water! You need as much water as possible to hydrate the depleted muscle. Trust me, you will feel a huge "pump" on Sunday morning from all the stored carbs and water INSIDE your muscle.
Speaking of muscle, the god of all sports supplement right now: Creatine. It can still be used on a low carb diet. Usually 10 grams a day during the low carb days, and around 20-30 grams during the carbing period should work for most everybody. I highly recommend it for everybody who doesn’t get an upset stomach using it.
Finally, one that everyone that’s dieted before knows about: The ECA stack. Most have not used pure ECA, but mainly herbal extracts in thermogenic products sold by sports supplement companies. For a pre-work out boost and increased fat burning through thermogenics (heat), this is my favorite supplement. It does its job, you feel it happening, and it can help you psychologically when you don’t feel like working out that day.
Conclusion
With all this said, I will throw my personal opinion, thanks and motivation on or for the cyclical ketogenic diet. First of all, to me, it is the greatest diet every developed. It makes sense, works and isn’t as hard to follow as one might think. Just stay motivated and concentrate on your goal.
When you have a craving during the week for that cupcake or pasta, just go eat a delicious serving of some pepperoni and melted mozzarella cheese. Or how about a hamburger patty covered in cheddar cheese and some strips of bacon? Foods that are delicious and that can satiate hunger.
I followed this exact plan this past summer for eight weeks and loss 18 pounds of fat without any loss in muscle. It was the leanest and most vascular I had ever seen myself.
And I must give thanks where thanks are due since I did not come up with this diet. Dan Duchaine, who recently passed away, brought my attention to a CKD with his book BodyOpus and Lyle McDonald has done deep research and wrote his book The Ketogenic Diet: A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner.
This diet can be for you. Oh you’re only a mass builder? Well, lower bodyfat percentages even make you look bigger! Give it some thought and decide. Then achieve your goal. It’s worth it: A diet with true fat loss.
ok i have a few questoins ill be as blunt as possible
can i use twin labs utra fuel to carb up( i get mxed opinions)
since i weigh 235 i should shoot for 700 grmas of carbs?
im prone to binge eat is it ok to carb up every two weeks?
realisticly how much weight can i drop in 12 weeks if i follow to a tee?
what do you recomend for "carbing up" foods?
Great post Kakdiesel.
Couple of questions.
1) Is it okay to take 3000mg of ala per day.
2) What days could one incorporate the 3 day DNP cycle on this diet.
3) If one was active on the weekend, such as biking for 3-4 hours saturday and sunday. Should that person eat more carbs on Friday night and saturday to make up for the energy being burned.
4) How do vegtables such as broccli and carrots fit in with this diet. When you say cut carbs do you mean 0 carbs. Or could one say for instance have a serving of chicken and a serving of broccli with some olive oil??
Thanks
ok i have a few questoins ill be as blunt as possible
can i use twin labs utra fuel to carb up( i get mxed opinions)
since i weigh 235 i should shoot for 700 grmas of carbs?
im prone to binge eat is it ok to carb up every two weeks?
realisticly how much weight can i drop in 12 weeks if i follow to a tee?
what do you recomend for "carbing up" foods?
Yes you can use twin labs ultra fuel to carb up..but only for your first one or two meals since they are high on the glycemic index.
If you weigh 235, what poundage is of LBM and not fat? say you have 10% bf, then your lbm would be 211 pounds, which would equal out to 96 kg and you would multiply 96 by 10-12 to get the number of grams of carbs you should get (here it would be 960-1150) during the 24-36 hour carb up.
Realistically speaking, you could drop anywhere from 24-36 pounds of pure fat in 12 weeks (granted you take the right supplements and workouts)
Carb up foods? well when i did it, i was lucky in that I used junk food...i would eat candy bars post workout for the first few hours (along with whey of course ), then pizza and burgers and fries the next 24 hours..why? Well due to the fat content and relatively low GI of these foods, I slowed down digestion, became "fuller" easier, therefore insulin didnt run too high (with a CKD, the tiniest bit of simple carbs will SHOOT your insulin way up), therefore the insulin response was even and gradual and fat gain was not a problem during carb ups..
hope this helps
__________________
I'll always be number one to myself"....Moses Malone
Originally posted by Kakdiesel
Yes you can use twin labs ultra fuel to carb up..but only for your first one or two meals since they are high on the glycemic index.
If you weigh 235, what poundage is of LBM and not fat? say you have 10% bf, then your lbm would be 211 pounds, which would equal out to 96 kg and you would multiply 96 by 10-12 to get the number of grams of carbs you should get (here it would be 960-1150) during the 24-36 hour carb up.
Realistically speaking, you could drop anywhere from 24-36 pounds of pure fat in 12 weeks (granted you take the right supplements and workouts)
Carb up foods? well when i did it, i was lucky in that I used junk food...i would eat candy bars post workout for the first few hours (along with whey of course ), then pizza and burgers and fries the next 24 hours..why? Well due to the fat content and relatively low GI of these foods, I slowed down digestion, became "fuller" easier, therefore insulin didnt run too high (with a CKD, the tiniest bit of simple carbs will SHOOT your insulin way up), therefore the insulin response was even and gradual and fat gain was not a problem during carb ups..
hope this helps
yes..it slows digestion a bit...
it worked for me..see when i went NO Fat on my carb up, my insulin shot up and down like crazy..i'd be lazy as fuck on the weekends cuz of the sugar crashes...i'd sleep all day and night with HUGE amounts of water retention..
Here's how i look at it..its better for me to eat some junk food because i'll eat less...what i mean is, is when I use to eat cereal and stuff for carb ups with skim milk, i would eat 2-3 boxes in a day! i couldnt stop and i was hungry all day...that would lead to extra cals plus insulin = fat gain..
its better to eat 700 cals of burger king, and be full, than eat 2000 cals of no fat food and always be hungry and gain fat
just my opinion based on experience
Originally posted by nautica
Great post Kakdiesel.
Couple of questions.
1) Is it okay to take 3000mg of ala per day.
2) What days could one incorporate the 3 day DNP cycle on this diet.
3) If one was active on the weekend, such as biking for 3-4 hours saturday and sunday. Should that person eat more carbs on Friday night and saturday to make up for the energy being burned.
4) How do vegtables such as broccli and carrots fit in with this diet. When you say cut carbs do you mean 0 carbs. Or could one say for instance have a serving of chicken and a serving of broccli with some olive oil??
Thanks
Nautica
sorry nautica..i didnt see this earlier
1) Yes, until you reach ketosis, then stop..there's no point and youre just wasting money after that..it is VERY beneficial to take ALA during the carb up..so here's how you would do it:
ALA spread out all day monday and tuesday, then only in the morning wednesday....then stop...then on friday or saturday when you start carb up restart the ALA in higher doses to ensure good glycogen stores
2) I would not use DNP on this for many reasons..first, your gonna be filled up with free fatty acids which are very toxic....no need to add to this toxicity...
3) yes and no...depends on HOW active you are on the weekend during carb up..if you are moderately to high, then yes eat some more carbs...but if its just regular cardio I wouldnt go overboard
4) to ENSURE ketosis, i stay away from all carbs..even vegetables that are low in carbs...if you need fiber, take metamusil (sp?) or some other fiber supplements...
hope this helps.
__________________
I'll always be number one to myself"....Moses Malone
Do you really think that the workout listed above is necessary? I am just wondering not flaming. Could you stick to your own routine?
well this is why the routine up there is optimal:
First off, for most people, your legs are your strongest body part..therefore, they should be trained later in the week..
My weakest parts are chest, back (my arms grow fine)..that is why i hit them first in the week right after the huge carb up..
with the extra glycogen storage, you'll be able to push more weight during your workouts on monday/tuesday...this is why i choose to go with my weaker body parts cuz my strength actually INCREASES during the CKD because of the extra storage of water and carbs..
but if you want to stick to "your routine" thats fine...as long as you know what your doing
save whey shakes til carbs up...liquid protein can cause insulin output like carbs due to quick digestion..
therefore, it would not be wise to raise insulin levels at all while trying to get into/stay in ketosis
stick with meats and solid foods..it'll make you fuller and less hungry---a huge plus while dieting obviously
pyramid downwards so that you hit the same rep range..meaning
start out with say, 100lbs and you get it for 8 reps til failure..next set bump down to 90 pounds so that you can still get approx 8 reps til failure.
(if you can do 8 or more reps til failure with the same weight the second set, you really didnt go to true failure on your FIRST SET!)
so just go lower and lower in weight so that you can hit the rep goal on each set
__________________
Thanks Kakdesiel,
I tried the Atkins diet about 2 years or so ago and lost way too much muscle. Since, that time I have completely ignored any Keto diets. But, after reading your post I am going to give this one a try - just to switch things up a little.
I am doing the numbers now and starting Next week.
I will update everyone in a couple of weeks to let them know how it is going.
Thanks again
Nautica
Originally posted by Last_Exit
just a few questions,
In what food can I eat so much fat in one day,I know that olive/flax oil are very good but I mean solid food ??
You said that it's better to eat solid protein source instead of shakes, but after a work out, your muscles doesn't need proteins to digest fast ? shakes are better or doesn't matter ?
Last|Exit
what do you think bodybuilders did before whey protein came out in the mid eighties??? eating tuna, chicken, or whatever is fine after working out..digestion isnt THAT different vs. whey protein..
Originally posted by MASSIVEmorris
Alright, I have a few questions. If you've already answered these...let me apologize before hand. Anyways, here goes.
1) I'm doing cardio 2x a day, 5 days a week and weight training 3x a week. Is this too much? I'm trying to get ripped quickly (I don't mind a little muscle loss).
2) During the "Carb up" ...you're telling me it's better to eat things like Burger King? What's so bad about the cereal ...(High GI carbs) ...and eventually going to low GI carbs?
3) If my primary goal is to lose fat, then, would it be out of the question to "Carb up" every other week? Or, would I end up losing too much muscle (I'll sacrifice a LITTLE, not too much).
4) Lastly, should I take Vanadyl Sulfate during my "Carb up" days...Dan Duchaine suggests it, Atkins doesn't, Pasquale doesn't either.
Thanks a lot for the help...
1) if you dont mind muscle loss then workout however you want. this program was designed to keep all muscle and gain even a tiny bit.
2) i already answered this due to sugar crashes and insulin highs and lows due to no fat (which slows digestion) carb ups...plus you feel a lot fuller when eating fat along with the carbs..so instead of eating 5000 calories of no fat carbs and still being hungry, why not eat 200 calories of carbs plus fat so fat gain is not a problem. See, what happens is eating high carbs with no fat PLUS eating all those extra calories (due to never feeling full) will store fat during your carb ups more so than eating some fat and lesser carbs because of the lower insulin release.
3) Same answer as #1...if you dont mind muscle loss, do whatever you want.
4) Alpha Lipoic Acid is the ONLY supplement (except if you want to use insulin) that should be used during carbs ups do enhance glycogen storage..the vanadyle sulfate and chromium shit turned out to suck and not work very welll (only in extreme high dosages that arent even worth the money it costs). Creatine is another option during carb ups to store more water inside the muscle cells.
forget it, I just found this article :
http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/calorie.html
next time, I'll make better search
sorry
Personally, I plan on using it for 6-8 weeks. About your kidneys, I suggest you follow this link and read up on it.
http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search...ext.asp?ID=1331
In it, it states that: "there is no published evidence that a high protein diet produces any negative effect on metabolism in bodybuilders or any other type of athletes."
There has been a study on it and this is what the conclusion was...basically ... : "The combination of high protein intake and intense exercise didn't appear to impair any aspect of kidney function either."
Hope this helps.
Awesome thread; the answer to all my questions. I have been on Keto for 4 days. Never used it before and tried to put it together using various posts, until I found this one...
1) What about sugar? should I stay away from it during the week AND carb-up?
2) Do I need to keep the same meal frequency on carb-up days (6 meals)?
3) I find it hard to avoid hidden carbs; for example, Cheddar Cheese, Beef Jerky and nuts all contain carbs, which leads me to intake about 25 gms of carbs a day.
4) I can't eat my minimal calorie intake without going way above the amounts of protein, I need 115 gms of Protein, and consume about 200. Is it ok to consume twice as much prot. as needed?
Also,my keto test shows a moderate to large amount of ketones, do I need purple to show "true ketosis fat burning state".
Thanks, keep up the good posts!
1) What about sugar? should I stay away from it during the week AND carb-up?
Certainly NONE durint the week.
During the carb=up it should be ok, but its best to keep high GI items towarsd the earliest parts of the carb up, and to have fewer of them on like the 2nd day of carb-up.
2) Do I need to keep the same meal frequency on carb-up days (6 meals)?
Studies have shown little change in the effectiveness of the carb up whther the carbs were ingested in like 3 big meals or 6 smaller ones, but given the shear amount of carbs that we are taliing about, more frequent meals may be a better choice.
3) I find it hard to avoid hidden carbs; for example, Cheddar Cheese, Beef Jerky and nuts all contain carbs, which leads me to intake about 25 gms of carbs a day.
And your question?
Well, most people will go intp ketosis at 20 and 25 gns, Hidden carbs are the tough ones. Most times people are told "zero" becuase even when most people THINK zero, there are still hidden carbs. Coffee has like 1 gm, diet soda has one, an egg has one, etc. They do add up.
If people start to think they canb have SOME carbs, then these are typically added to the "hidden" ones and it ends up keepint them out of ketosis!
4) I can't eat my minimal calorie intake without going way above the amounts of protein, I need 115 gms of Protein, and consume about 200. Is it ok to consume twice as much prot. as needed?
Well, here is the problem.
To really do a CKD correctly you do want low low carbs during the week and you still want a certain amount of protein to keep lean mass. You also do NOT want to drop calories TOO low or that will create problems as well. So, there is a reason that a certain amount of protein abnd fat is recommended.
Now many guys would think "ok, but hey, if I cant do any carbs, and need a minimal amount of protein (with some fat) to make up a certain number of calories, then what if I eat MORE protein and maybe LESS fat!
Here is the problem with that.
TOO MUCH protein CAN knock you out of ketosis!
Even if you eat NO carbs at ALL, the body still has the capacity to get some glucose out of protein (maybe its glycogen, but bear with me .... I do think its glucose). So you do want to eat some protein (isntead of 100% fat) so that you hopefully minimize the amount oif protein which the body will produce by vbreaking down its own lean mass.
But if you eat TOO MUCH protein then yoru boidy may actually be able to make too much glucoise from it, and this can actually knock you out of, or prvenet you from going into, ketosis.
So,....
whenthey say X amount if protein, and Y amount of fat (and yes, some non-zero amount of carbs) then they MEAN it.
Now there is probably some leeway in this, meaning if the optimal CKD equations point to 125 gms of protein and you do 150, I would not worry too much (as long as you balance it out by changing the amount of fat you ingest so that total calories is near correct).
But I would not like double the amount if protein or anything like that.
Pardon me, but I just got done re-reading Lyle's Keto diet book again. LOL And my typing sucks ass, sorry.
__________________
Originally posted by Kakdiesel
In Case You Missed It
So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.
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The Ultimate Diet to Get Ripped while Maintaing Muscle.
I already typed this in some thread in tha Anabolic Forum, And i figured someone might benefit from it here.
This is a Strict Diet for 8 weeks. No CHEAT days, None. 56 days Straight. If you can't deal with it, then this isn't for you. If you can hang, The results will be Phenomenal.
This is a Diet for someone who is in Shape, but just needs to lose those LAST few pounds of Stubborn fat.
This diet will work ESPECIALLY for those with excess Fat in the lower abs, thighs, lower back area.
Diet Guidelines:
Avoid All starches, You don't need them if your goal is to get down to 4-7 fucking Percent BodyFat.
1. Eat Tons of Green Veggies (Fiber)
2. Eat Lots of Healthy Fats ex. Steak, Flax Oil, E.v. OliveOil, Salmon, Fish Oils, etc. (Energy)
3. Eat TONS of Protein (Preserve Muscles)
4. DRINK 1 1/2 gallons of H20 a day AT LEAST.
Avoid ALL fruit drinks, Juices, rice, breads.
Eat carbos ONLY after a grueling Glycogen depleting workout.
You will have Tons of energy from the Healthy Fats,
Good digestion from the Fiber,
and great Muscle Hardness and Protection from the Protein.
Healthy Fats = Energy
Protein = Muscle Hardness, Muscle Protection
Fiber = Digestion, and various other health Benefits.
Healthy Fats, Lots of Fiber, And TONS of Protein. That's the key.
Not only will you DROP bodyfat while maintaing Muscle, but you will ALSO have an abundance of energy and your skin (complexion) will be looking great as well.
Example of a Day...
1. 3 servings of Whey/ 1 tablespoon of Flax Oil
2. 8 - 10oz London Broil Steak (Extra Lean)/ 1-2 cups Green Veggies.
3. Grilled Salmon/ 1-2 cups Green Veggies.
4. 3 servings of Whey/ 1 tablespoon of Flax Oil
5. 2 Cans of Tuna/ Chopped Onions/Celery/ 1 tablespoon of Safflower Mayonaise.
6. (Post Workout) MRP or 2 servings of Whey/10oz Orange Juice.
7. 8-10oz Extra Lean Steak/ 2 cups Veggies.
Breaks Down to About:
Protein 1.5 - 2 grams per lb of Bodyweight
Fat .5 - .75grams per lb of Bodyweight
Carbs (only post workout) 30-50 grams
Fiber in the form of Green Veggies - As much as Possible.
Supplements:
Do NOT take ANY FAT BURNERS...why? They will Surpress your appetite TOO much, You need to eat every 2 hours. If you take a fat burner you won't be up to it.
1 Multivitamin
Extra Zinc 30 - 50mgs
Fish Oil Caps
Flax Oil Liquid
200mcg Selenium
800mgs Folic Acid
800iu Vitamin E
2grams Vitamin C
WORKOUTS:
Staying ACTIVE!! is the KEY. ALWAYSSSS stay Active.
Lift 4 times a Week. Alternate Between Heavy Low Rep workouts, and High repetition Moderate Weight Workouts.
Cardio, 4-7 days a week, Alernate Between 20 min High Intensity (Jump Ropes, Sprints) and Low intensity for 45min - 1hour (Walking, Light Jogging, Jumping Jacks (lol) )
This DIET is NOT easy by Anymeans, It takes proper planning a day ahead of time. (You have to have the Steaks/ Veggies/ Chicken/ Salmon, Thawed out Before cooking them, Put stuff in Tupper Ware..you Just have to be Prepared.)
Be prepared to Go through at LEAST 1lb of lean Steak a day, and 10 servings of Whey Powder a day and TONS of Green Veggies a day. Be prepared to be going grocery shopping at least twice a week.
Like I said ths diet is not easy, But oh well, No one said this game is Easy.
But Remember if you can stick through it for 8 Grueling weeks, You'll be Satified at the End with your Amazing Results.
Good Luck.
p.s. NEVER mix Fat and Carbs at the Same meal.
Peace,
Crumcake.
old CKD article I wrote for George24....
Its in the archives so I couldnt "bump" it back up here and instead of giving you the link i'll just repost it for ya enjoy
It has come to my attention recently by some emails from fellow bro's on elite that I should say something about cyclical ketogenic diets. I wrote an article on it for a sports supplement company's newsletter a while back and this is for any of you who are interested in this. Of course, I have left out my name on it to hide my identity since I've more than openly talked about steroid use on this board. However, I do not sell, or advocate the use of illegal substances nor does the company I wrote this article for: Enjoy
The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss
In recent media, low carbohydrate diets have been THE fad for almost everybody in America wanting to lose weight. From your secretaries, elementary school teachers, and desk clerks, to bodybuilders, models, actresses, and athletes.
However, there is a huge difference between those who follow an Atkins plan and those who follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). Atkins is a low carb plan for those who are quite sedentary, walk maybe 3 times a week at the most, and just follow normal everyday activities. So forget Atkins here. The CKD is for those who’s main concern is true fat loss and muscle preservation—muscle for sports and high intensity activities.
My opinion for those who practice Atkins is that while they do lose fat, there is much water loss and most importantly muscle loss. Something we athletes do not want. A CKD is a true fat loss diet that works undeniably, if followed properly and strictly. Yes, low carb diets can be hell at first, but after two to three weeks, there have been anecdotal reports from many dieters that the cravings for carbohydrates decrease. This route to fat burning is unlike any traditional diet all the low-fat diet authors and FDA people have been advocating in history.
I got turned onto this diet a few years back when I got tired of cutting fat and still not being able to lose those last percentage points of bodyfat without losing hard earned muscle. I would start a low-fat diet, and be a either a social misfit (not going out with my friends to party or not going out to eat). Or in the worse case, feel so deprived of delicious junk foods I missed and bail out on the diet all together. One advantage to this diet is that there is no true restrictions on food. One may eat anything labeled a "food"! Well, almost. I’ll explain later.
How the diet works.
The science behind the CKD is simple. Carbohydrates in the diet cause an insulin (a "storage" hormone) output in the pancreas. It is used to store glycogen, amino acids into muscles, while causing excess calories to be stored as fat. So common sense asks me, "How can one try to break down fat, when your body is in a storage-type mode?" Difficult to do, indeed. That is why it makes perfect sense for step one to be cutting carbs.
The next thing that happens in your body is the rise in catecholamines (a "fat mobilizing" hormone), cortisol (a "breakdown" hormone), and growth hormone. Now your body realizes there’s no more carbs to burn for energy, so it must find another energy source: fat.
This usually happens during a metabolic condition called "ketosis." This is when your liver is out of glycogen and starts to produce ketones (by-products of fatty acids). You can check your status of whether or not you are in ketosis with urinalysis strips you can pick up at any local drug store called "Ketostix." Just urinate and see if it turns color. If so, you have ketones in the urine.
When the body is fed fat and protein, it will use dietary fat along with bodyfat for energy with protein going towards repair.
As a side note, there is another reason why this diet makes the most sense to use while keeping muscle. When one follows a high carbohydrate, low-fat, reduced-calorie diet, there’s a point when some bodyfat is burned, but when the body is still in a carbohydrate burning metabolism while trying to lose "weight," it will strip down precious body protein to convert to glucose for energy.
On the other hand, during fat metabolism, protein cannot be converted into free-fatty acids for energy. Although there is no scientific research done on this, there have been reports from followers that there truly is a "protein-sparing" effect. It makes sense doesn’t it? Where else would the body look for fat energy when all dietary fat is burned? Bodyfat.
Diet Requirements Mon. to Fri.
The phrase "working smarter, not harder" applies here more than any diet one has tried. One must fully understand what they must do in order to optimize their goal. To set a CKD up, one cannot just expect to cut all carbs in the diet, train hard, and lose fat! Although some have come up with variations to this plan, the one stated in this article, I have found, has worked for myself (it got me to 6% BF), and other clients I’ve trained to the leanest, hardest they’ve ever been.
First, to set up the diet, write down your lean mass weight. Not your total weight, dough boy. If you weigh 200, but have 20% bodyfat, your lean mass weight would be around 160 pounds. Multiply this by one, getting your grams of protein requirements for a day. Make sure you eat at least one gram of protein/pound of lean mass! This is important in recovery from workouts and enough nitrogen retention to keep muscle. Next, multiply by four, to get your protein calories. Here, it is 640.
The rest of your caloric requirements for the day should be fat. Here is the catch: you must eat fat to burn fat. There’s no way around it. There are many advantages to dietary fat on this diet: Feeling of fullness since fat digestion is slow (less hunger), tastes great, and lowers blood glucose levels (lowering insulin and allow all the fat burning hormones to do their job).
So how much fat? I always recommend starting out with a 500 calorie deficit from your maintenance calories. If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.
2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.
The Weekend Carb Load
Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won’t happen on the CKD.
Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.
Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday. Now the next important issue to address is how many carbs. Some lucky individuals find that they eat whatever they want for the 24-30 hour time interval and receive perfect glycogen compensation, while others rely on a better statistical number.
What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.
100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.
A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.
So what about dietary fat? I know you’re reminding yourself, "Didn’t this guy mention pizza?" Yes, I did. And here’s why. During the first 24-30 hours of carbing up, the body will use all dietary carbohydrates to refill glycogen, protein for rebuilding, and get this: fat for energy. Still?
Just like the previous five and a half days. Makes sense. When all the carbohydrates are being used for more important functions (muscle), what else is there to be used? However, you can’t just eat all the fat you want. Keep grams of fat intake below your body weight in kilograms. Again, here our example will keep is fat below 73 during the carb-fest.
By anecdotal reports, this should keep fat regain minimal to nil. Keeping fat intake extremely low has even caused some extra fat burning during the carb up!
But people who have tried this, myself included, have complaints about insulin swings from the quick digestion of carbs: High, low, high, low. Not very fun when you want to enjoy your weekend. Some just fall into a sugar coma and sleep all day. Kind of like after eating all those sweet potatoes, mashed potatoes, and pumpkin pie after Thanksgiving dinner. Its not ONLY the tryptophan in turkey that causes sleep!
As stated before, some dietary fat should be eaten to slow digestion and keep sugar levels stable. Whether it be saturated, unsaturated, or essential fats, is the dieter’s decision. All have nine calories per gram. (Note: there is a claim that essential fatty acids such as flax seed oil increase insulin sensitivity within the muscle cells, in turn, increasing glycogen intake.)
In Case You Missed It
So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.
Some have found to enjoy a protein shake afterwards because they are easily digested. Do whatever works for you. But fat is not logical since you want the protein to fuel the healing process as quickly as possible and fat will only slow it down.
Friday afternoon, around two hours before your last workout of the week, eat two to three pieces of fruit. This will get your body/liver ready to start the carb loading and give you some energy for that final, dreadful workout (trust me, during the first few weeks, you will not want to do that final workout, but you must). Then from Friday night until Saturday at midnight or until bed, eat those carbs!
CKD Workout
Now, the question is, how do we workout to optimize muscle preservation and keep our metabolism up while dieting? Before we get into that, one must realize that during any dieting scheme there is one thing that must be done, and one thing that must not be done.
First, you must keep training volume lower than your usual routine. Overtraining is probably the number one killer in motivation, it deprives sleep, and hinders fat loss.
Second, you must not fall into the myth of lighter weights with higher reps. You got your muscle by benching 240, and you have to bench 240 to keep that same muscle! Or at least around that area! Okay, now that we have that established, here’s what we do:
On Monday and Tuesday we will work our weaker body parts, rest or cardio on Wednesday and Thursday mornings, Thursday do our strongest body parts, and Friday a combination of the Monday/Tuesday workouts in a loop format. The workout I have found to work optimally for myself and my clients is this:
(Note: You may feel free to tweak, shake, and turn this example upside down.
Everybody is different, so find what works for you.)
MONDAY: Chest, Back, Abs
High intensity workouts with 60 sec rest between sets, 90 sec rest between
each exercise
(this excludes all warm up sets)
Bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps
T-bar Row 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Incline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Latpulldown to front 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Dips or Decline bench 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Shrugs 3 sets, 6-10 reps
Flys (any type) 2 sets, 10-12 reps
Reverse flys 2 sets, 10-12 reps
Stiff-leg deadlift 3 sets, 10-12 reps
Rope ab crunch 3 sets, 10-15 reps
Reverse crunch 3 sets, 10-20 reps
TUESDAY: Shoulders, Arms
Same intensity mentioned before
Behind the neck shoulder press 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Military press 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Preacher curls 3 sets, 8-10 reps
French press or "skull-crushers" 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Shoulder raises (any type) 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Hammers 3 sets, 8-10 reps
V-bar tricep press 3 sets, 8-10 reps
Forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Reverse forearm curls 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Wednesday: Rest or Cardio
Thursday morning: Rest or Cardio
Later on Thursday: Legs
Same intensity mentioned before
Squat or Leg press 4 sets, 6-10 reps
Lying leg curl 4 sets, 6-10 reps
Standing calf raise 4 sets 6-10 reps
Leg extensions 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Seated leg curl 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Seated calf raise 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Friday night: Final Workout
Same intensity mentioned before
Bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps
T-bar Row 2 sets, 6-10 reps
Incline bench 2 sets, 6-10 reps
Latpulldown to front 2 sets, 6-10 reps
Behind the neck shoulder press 1 set, 8-10 reps
Military press 1 set, 8-10 reps
Either curl exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Either tricep exercise 2 sets, 8-10 reps
Stiffleg deadift 1 set, 8-10 reps
Normal floor ab crunch 2 sets, 10-20 reps
Reverse crunches 2 sets, 10-20 reps
Start the carb up for 24-30 hours!
Aerobics
Before we go on, I want to address the cardio/aerobics issue. Some people find that for the first month on a CKD, cardio/aerobics is not needed. However when fat loss does start to slow down a bit, that is when most start adding 30 min. sessions on their off days. Be careful though, you do not want to hinder your Thursday leg workout. So experiment and try to only add aerobic sessions if you feel you have to.
Supplements
So we have the basic diet outline stated, the workout, now what about supplements? Things that can extremely optimize this diet regime. Well, I have to admit no allegiance to any supplement company on this one: Water. Water is important on any diet, especially low carb since there is a diuretic effect, and more importantly during the carbing period. Glycogen is stored with water! You need as much water as possible to hydrate the depleted muscle. Trust me, you will feel a huge "pump" on Sunday morning from all the stored carbs and water INSIDE your muscle.
Speaking of muscle, the god of all sports supplement right now: Creatine. It can still be used on a low carb diet. Usually 10 grams a day during the low carb days, and around 20-30 grams during the carbing period should work for most everybody. I highly recommend it for everybody who doesn’t get an upset stomach using it.
Finally, one that everyone that’s dieted before knows about: The ECA stack. Most have not used pure ECA, but mainly herbal extracts in thermogenic products sold by sports supplement companies. For a pre-work out boost and increased fat burning through thermogenics (heat), this is my favorite supplement. It does its job, you feel it happening, and it can help you psychologically when you don’t feel like working out that day.
Conclusion
With all this said, I will throw my personal opinion, thanks and motivation on or for the cyclical ketogenic diet. First of all, to me, it is the greatest diet every developed. It makes sense, works and isn’t as hard to follow as one might think. Just stay motivated and concentrate on your goal.
When you have a craving during the week for that cupcake or pasta, just go eat a delicious serving of some pepperoni and melted mozzarella cheese. Or how about a hamburger patty covered in cheddar cheese and some strips of bacon? Foods that are delicious and that can satiate hunger.
I followed this exact plan this past summer for eight weeks and loss 18 pounds of fat without any loss in muscle. It was the leanest and most vascular I had ever seen myself.
And I must give thanks where thanks are due since I did not come up with this diet. Dan Duchaine, who recently passed away, brought my attention to a CKD with his book BodyOpus and Lyle McDonald has done deep research and wrote his book The Ketogenic Diet: A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner.
This diet can be for you. Oh you’re only a mass builder? Well, lower bodyfat percentages even make you look bigger! Give it some thought and decide. Then achieve your goal. It’s worth it: A diet with true fat loss.
ok i have a few questoins ill be as blunt as possible
can i use twin labs utra fuel to carb up( i get mxed opinions)
since i weigh 235 i should shoot for 700 grmas of carbs?
im prone to binge eat is it ok to carb up every two weeks?
realisticly how much weight can i drop in 12 weeks if i follow to a tee?
what do you recomend for "carbing up" foods?
Great post Kakdiesel.
Couple of questions.
1) Is it okay to take 3000mg of ala per day.
2) What days could one incorporate the 3 day DNP cycle on this diet.
3) If one was active on the weekend, such as biking for 3-4 hours saturday and sunday. Should that person eat more carbs on Friday night and saturday to make up for the energy being burned.
4) How do vegtables such as broccli and carrots fit in with this diet. When you say cut carbs do you mean 0 carbs. Or could one say for instance have a serving of chicken and a serving of broccli with some olive oil??
Thanks
ok i have a few questoins ill be as blunt as possible
can i use twin labs utra fuel to carb up( i get mxed opinions)
since i weigh 235 i should shoot for 700 grmas of carbs?
im prone to binge eat is it ok to carb up every two weeks?
realisticly how much weight can i drop in 12 weeks if i follow to a tee?
what do you recomend for "carbing up" foods?
Yes you can use twin labs ultra fuel to carb up..but only for your first one or two meals since they are high on the glycemic index.
If you weigh 235, what poundage is of LBM and not fat? say you have 10% bf, then your lbm would be 211 pounds, which would equal out to 96 kg and you would multiply 96 by 10-12 to get the number of grams of carbs you should get (here it would be 960-1150) during the 24-36 hour carb up.
Realistically speaking, you could drop anywhere from 24-36 pounds of pure fat in 12 weeks (granted you take the right supplements and workouts)
Carb up foods? well when i did it, i was lucky in that I used junk food...i would eat candy bars post workout for the first few hours (along with whey of course ), then pizza and burgers and fries the next 24 hours..why? Well due to the fat content and relatively low GI of these foods, I slowed down digestion, became "fuller" easier, therefore insulin didnt run too high (with a CKD, the tiniest bit of simple carbs will SHOOT your insulin way up), therefore the insulin response was even and gradual and fat gain was not a problem during carb ups..
hope this helps
__________________
I'll always be number one to myself"....Moses Malone
Originally posted by Kakdiesel
Yes you can use twin labs ultra fuel to carb up..but only for your first one or two meals since they are high on the glycemic index.
If you weigh 235, what poundage is of LBM and not fat? say you have 10% bf, then your lbm would be 211 pounds, which would equal out to 96 kg and you would multiply 96 by 10-12 to get the number of grams of carbs you should get (here it would be 960-1150) during the 24-36 hour carb up.
Realistically speaking, you could drop anywhere from 24-36 pounds of pure fat in 12 weeks (granted you take the right supplements and workouts)
Carb up foods? well when i did it, i was lucky in that I used junk food...i would eat candy bars post workout for the first few hours (along with whey of course ), then pizza and burgers and fries the next 24 hours..why? Well due to the fat content and relatively low GI of these foods, I slowed down digestion, became "fuller" easier, therefore insulin didnt run too high (with a CKD, the tiniest bit of simple carbs will SHOOT your insulin way up), therefore the insulin response was even and gradual and fat gain was not a problem during carb ups..
hope this helps
yes..it slows digestion a bit...
it worked for me..see when i went NO Fat on my carb up, my insulin shot up and down like crazy..i'd be lazy as fuck on the weekends cuz of the sugar crashes...i'd sleep all day and night with HUGE amounts of water retention..
Here's how i look at it..its better for me to eat some junk food because i'll eat less...what i mean is, is when I use to eat cereal and stuff for carb ups with skim milk, i would eat 2-3 boxes in a day! i couldnt stop and i was hungry all day...that would lead to extra cals plus insulin = fat gain..
its better to eat 700 cals of burger king, and be full, than eat 2000 cals of no fat food and always be hungry and gain fat
just my opinion based on experience
Originally posted by nautica
Great post Kakdiesel.
Couple of questions.
1) Is it okay to take 3000mg of ala per day.
2) What days could one incorporate the 3 day DNP cycle on this diet.
3) If one was active on the weekend, such as biking for 3-4 hours saturday and sunday. Should that person eat more carbs on Friday night and saturday to make up for the energy being burned.
4) How do vegtables such as broccli and carrots fit in with this diet. When you say cut carbs do you mean 0 carbs. Or could one say for instance have a serving of chicken and a serving of broccli with some olive oil??
Thanks
Nautica
sorry nautica..i didnt see this earlier
1) Yes, until you reach ketosis, then stop..there's no point and youre just wasting money after that..it is VERY beneficial to take ALA during the carb up..so here's how you would do it:
ALA spread out all day monday and tuesday, then only in the morning wednesday....then stop...then on friday or saturday when you start carb up restart the ALA in higher doses to ensure good glycogen stores
2) I would not use DNP on this for many reasons..first, your gonna be filled up with free fatty acids which are very toxic....no need to add to this toxicity...
3) yes and no...depends on HOW active you are on the weekend during carb up..if you are moderately to high, then yes eat some more carbs...but if its just regular cardio I wouldnt go overboard
4) to ENSURE ketosis, i stay away from all carbs..even vegetables that are low in carbs...if you need fiber, take metamusil (sp?) or some other fiber supplements...
hope this helps.
__________________
I'll always be number one to myself"....Moses Malone
Do you really think that the workout listed above is necessary? I am just wondering not flaming. Could you stick to your own routine?
well this is why the routine up there is optimal:
First off, for most people, your legs are your strongest body part..therefore, they should be trained later in the week..
My weakest parts are chest, back (my arms grow fine)..that is why i hit them first in the week right after the huge carb up..
with the extra glycogen storage, you'll be able to push more weight during your workouts on monday/tuesday...this is why i choose to go with my weaker body parts cuz my strength actually INCREASES during the CKD because of the extra storage of water and carbs..
but if you want to stick to "your routine" thats fine...as long as you know what your doing
save whey shakes til carbs up...liquid protein can cause insulin output like carbs due to quick digestion..
therefore, it would not be wise to raise insulin levels at all while trying to get into/stay in ketosis
stick with meats and solid foods..it'll make you fuller and less hungry---a huge plus while dieting obviously
pyramid downwards so that you hit the same rep range..meaning
start out with say, 100lbs and you get it for 8 reps til failure..next set bump down to 90 pounds so that you can still get approx 8 reps til failure.
(if you can do 8 or more reps til failure with the same weight the second set, you really didnt go to true failure on your FIRST SET!)
so just go lower and lower in weight so that you can hit the rep goal on each set
__________________
Thanks Kakdesiel,
I tried the Atkins diet about 2 years or so ago and lost way too much muscle. Since, that time I have completely ignored any Keto diets. But, after reading your post I am going to give this one a try - just to switch things up a little.
I am doing the numbers now and starting Next week.
I will update everyone in a couple of weeks to let them know how it is going.
Thanks again
Nautica
Originally posted by Last_Exit
just a few questions,
In what food can I eat so much fat in one day,I know that olive/flax oil are very good but I mean solid food ??
You said that it's better to eat solid protein source instead of shakes, but after a work out, your muscles doesn't need proteins to digest fast ? shakes are better or doesn't matter ?
Last|Exit
what do you think bodybuilders did before whey protein came out in the mid eighties??? eating tuna, chicken, or whatever is fine after working out..digestion isnt THAT different vs. whey protein..
Originally posted by MASSIVEmorris
Alright, I have a few questions. If you've already answered these...let me apologize before hand. Anyways, here goes.
1) I'm doing cardio 2x a day, 5 days a week and weight training 3x a week. Is this too much? I'm trying to get ripped quickly (I don't mind a little muscle loss).
2) During the "Carb up" ...you're telling me it's better to eat things like Burger King? What's so bad about the cereal ...(High GI carbs) ...and eventually going to low GI carbs?
3) If my primary goal is to lose fat, then, would it be out of the question to "Carb up" every other week? Or, would I end up losing too much muscle (I'll sacrifice a LITTLE, not too much).
4) Lastly, should I take Vanadyl Sulfate during my "Carb up" days...Dan Duchaine suggests it, Atkins doesn't, Pasquale doesn't either.
Thanks a lot for the help...
1) if you dont mind muscle loss then workout however you want. this program was designed to keep all muscle and gain even a tiny bit.
2) i already answered this due to sugar crashes and insulin highs and lows due to no fat (which slows digestion) carb ups...plus you feel a lot fuller when eating fat along with the carbs..so instead of eating 5000 calories of no fat carbs and still being hungry, why not eat 200 calories of carbs plus fat so fat gain is not a problem. See, what happens is eating high carbs with no fat PLUS eating all those extra calories (due to never feeling full) will store fat during your carb ups more so than eating some fat and lesser carbs because of the lower insulin release.
3) Same answer as #1...if you dont mind muscle loss, do whatever you want.
4) Alpha Lipoic Acid is the ONLY supplement (except if you want to use insulin) that should be used during carbs ups do enhance glycogen storage..the vanadyle sulfate and chromium shit turned out to suck and not work very welll (only in extreme high dosages that arent even worth the money it costs). Creatine is another option during carb ups to store more water inside the muscle cells.
forget it, I just found this article :
http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/calorie.html
next time, I'll make better search
sorry
Personally, I plan on using it for 6-8 weeks. About your kidneys, I suggest you follow this link and read up on it.
http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search...ext.asp?ID=1331
In it, it states that: "there is no published evidence that a high protein diet produces any negative effect on metabolism in bodybuilders or any other type of athletes."
There has been a study on it and this is what the conclusion was...basically ... : "The combination of high protein intake and intense exercise didn't appear to impair any aspect of kidney function either."
Hope this helps.
Awesome thread; the answer to all my questions. I have been on Keto for 4 days. Never used it before and tried to put it together using various posts, until I found this one...
1) What about sugar? should I stay away from it during the week AND carb-up?
2) Do I need to keep the same meal frequency on carb-up days (6 meals)?
3) I find it hard to avoid hidden carbs; for example, Cheddar Cheese, Beef Jerky and nuts all contain carbs, which leads me to intake about 25 gms of carbs a day.
4) I can't eat my minimal calorie intake without going way above the amounts of protein, I need 115 gms of Protein, and consume about 200. Is it ok to consume twice as much prot. as needed?
Also,my keto test shows a moderate to large amount of ketones, do I need purple to show "true ketosis fat burning state".
Thanks, keep up the good posts!
1) What about sugar? should I stay away from it during the week AND carb-up?
Certainly NONE durint the week.
During the carb=up it should be ok, but its best to keep high GI items towarsd the earliest parts of the carb up, and to have fewer of them on like the 2nd day of carb-up.
2) Do I need to keep the same meal frequency on carb-up days (6 meals)?
Studies have shown little change in the effectiveness of the carb up whther the carbs were ingested in like 3 big meals or 6 smaller ones, but given the shear amount of carbs that we are taliing about, more frequent meals may be a better choice.
3) I find it hard to avoid hidden carbs; for example, Cheddar Cheese, Beef Jerky and nuts all contain carbs, which leads me to intake about 25 gms of carbs a day.
And your question?
Well, most people will go intp ketosis at 20 and 25 gns, Hidden carbs are the tough ones. Most times people are told "zero" becuase even when most people THINK zero, there are still hidden carbs. Coffee has like 1 gm, diet soda has one, an egg has one, etc. They do add up.
If people start to think they canb have SOME carbs, then these are typically added to the "hidden" ones and it ends up keepint them out of ketosis!
4) I can't eat my minimal calorie intake without going way above the amounts of protein, I need 115 gms of Protein, and consume about 200. Is it ok to consume twice as much prot. as needed?
Well, here is the problem.
To really do a CKD correctly you do want low low carbs during the week and you still want a certain amount of protein to keep lean mass. You also do NOT want to drop calories TOO low or that will create problems as well. So, there is a reason that a certain amount of protein abnd fat is recommended.
Now many guys would think "ok, but hey, if I cant do any carbs, and need a minimal amount of protein (with some fat) to make up a certain number of calories, then what if I eat MORE protein and maybe LESS fat!
Here is the problem with that.
TOO MUCH protein CAN knock you out of ketosis!
Even if you eat NO carbs at ALL, the body still has the capacity to get some glucose out of protein (maybe its glycogen, but bear with me .... I do think its glucose). So you do want to eat some protein (isntead of 100% fat) so that you hopefully minimize the amount oif protein which the body will produce by vbreaking down its own lean mass.
But if you eat TOO MUCH protein then yoru boidy may actually be able to make too much glucoise from it, and this can actually knock you out of, or prvenet you from going into, ketosis.
So,....
whenthey say X amount if protein, and Y amount of fat (and yes, some non-zero amount of carbs) then they MEAN it.
Now there is probably some leeway in this, meaning if the optimal CKD equations point to 125 gms of protein and you do 150, I would not worry too much (as long as you balance it out by changing the amount of fat you ingest so that total calories is near correct).
But I would not like double the amount if protein or anything like that.
Pardon me, but I just got done re-reading Lyle's Keto diet book again. LOL And my typing sucks ass, sorry.
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Originally posted by Kakdiesel
In Case You Missed It
So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.
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The Ultimate Diet to Get Ripped while Maintaing Muscle.
I already typed this in some thread in tha Anabolic Forum, And i figured someone might benefit from it here.
This is a Strict Diet for 8 weeks. No CHEAT days, None. 56 days Straight. If you can't deal with it, then this isn't for you. If you can hang, The results will be Phenomenal.
This is a Diet for someone who is in Shape, but just needs to lose those LAST few pounds of Stubborn fat.
This diet will work ESPECIALLY for those with excess Fat in the lower abs, thighs, lower back area.
Diet Guidelines:
Avoid All starches, You don't need them if your goal is to get down to 4-7 fucking Percent BodyFat.
1. Eat Tons of Green Veggies (Fiber)
2. Eat Lots of Healthy Fats ex. Steak, Flax Oil, E.v. OliveOil, Salmon, Fish Oils, etc. (Energy)
3. Eat TONS of Protein (Preserve Muscles)
4. DRINK 1 1/2 gallons of H20 a day AT LEAST.
Avoid ALL fruit drinks, Juices, rice, breads.
Eat carbos ONLY after a grueling Glycogen depleting workout.
You will have Tons of energy from the Healthy Fats,
Good digestion from the Fiber,
and great Muscle Hardness and Protection from the Protein.
Healthy Fats = Energy
Protein = Muscle Hardness, Muscle Protection
Fiber = Digestion, and various other health Benefits.
Healthy Fats, Lots of Fiber, And TONS of Protein. That's the key.
Not only will you DROP bodyfat while maintaing Muscle, but you will ALSO have an abundance of energy and your skin (complexion) will be looking great as well.
Example of a Day...
1. 3 servings of Whey/ 1 tablespoon of Flax Oil
2. 8 - 10oz London Broil Steak (Extra Lean)/ 1-2 cups Green Veggies.
3. Grilled Salmon/ 1-2 cups Green Veggies.
4. 3 servings of Whey/ 1 tablespoon of Flax Oil
5. 2 Cans of Tuna/ Chopped Onions/Celery/ 1 tablespoon of Safflower Mayonaise.
6. (Post Workout) MRP or 2 servings of Whey/10oz Orange Juice.
7. 8-10oz Extra Lean Steak/ 2 cups Veggies.
Breaks Down to About:
Protein 1.5 - 2 grams per lb of Bodyweight
Fat .5 - .75grams per lb of Bodyweight
Carbs (only post workout) 30-50 grams
Fiber in the form of Green Veggies - As much as Possible.
Supplements:
Do NOT take ANY FAT BURNERS...why? They will Surpress your appetite TOO much, You need to eat every 2 hours. If you take a fat burner you won't be up to it.
1 Multivitamin
Extra Zinc 30 - 50mgs
Fish Oil Caps
Flax Oil Liquid
200mcg Selenium
800mgs Folic Acid
800iu Vitamin E
2grams Vitamin C
WORKOUTS:
Staying ACTIVE!! is the KEY. ALWAYSSSS stay Active.
Lift 4 times a Week. Alternate Between Heavy Low Rep workouts, and High repetition Moderate Weight Workouts.
Cardio, 4-7 days a week, Alernate Between 20 min High Intensity (Jump Ropes, Sprints) and Low intensity for 45min - 1hour (Walking, Light Jogging, Jumping Jacks (lol) )
This DIET is NOT easy by Anymeans, It takes proper planning a day ahead of time. (You have to have the Steaks/ Veggies/ Chicken/ Salmon, Thawed out Before cooking them, Put stuff in Tupper Ware..you Just have to be Prepared.)
Be prepared to Go through at LEAST 1lb of lean Steak a day, and 10 servings of Whey Powder a day and TONS of Green Veggies a day. Be prepared to be going grocery shopping at least twice a week.
Like I said ths diet is not easy, But oh well, No one said this game is Easy.
But Remember if you can stick through it for 8 Grueling weeks, You'll be Satified at the End with your Amazing Results.
Good Luck.
p.s. NEVER mix Fat and Carbs at the Same meal.
Peace,
Crumcake.
Baby Gorilla
New member
My general rule....
Might not work for everyone, but I have a compulsive eating disorder.
I learned that food was my enemy, and I changed my diet and lifestyle accordingly.
On juice or not, my diet is always the same--very clean. If I want to "cheat," I go out to a really nice resturant or buy specifically what I want to treat myself with.
The only variation is HOW MUCH I consume on juice as compared to off juice.
Might not work for everyone, but I have a compulsive eating disorder.
I learned that food was my enemy, and I changed my diet and lifestyle accordingly.
On juice or not, my diet is always the same--very clean. If I want to "cheat," I go out to a really nice resturant or buy specifically what I want to treat myself with.
The only variation is HOW MUCH I consume on juice as compared to off juice.
