Deadlift Program Help

[miked8c]

Thanks for your responses _Cato_.

How would this look Cato:

W1 205 255 305 355 405
W2 205 255 310 360 410
W3 210 260 310 365 415
W4 210 265 315 370 420
W5(1x5)255 300 340 385 425
W6(1x3)265 310 355 400 445
W7(1x3)280 325 370 420 465
W8(1x3)295 345 390 440 490
W9(1x3)300 350 400 450 500

I would start at week 2. Would having a single top set of three be enough volume for progress, I think it would since by week 5 these weights will be close to maximal efforts.

What do you think? please change what you think would work best. Either way I want to start with a weight above 405x5 since I already did that yesterday.

Wouldn't 20 lbs. increments per week be too big? I feel like I would stall on week 7 or something? Maybe I should do ten lbs.? BTW before this I was doing 531 for deadlift, however the weight was far too light as I was working with a training max of 375.

 

[_cato_]

I was thinking that the 20 lbs jumps might be a bit too much in those last few weeks of the routine I posted. I was also thinking, however, that the size of the jumps would be partially offset by the fact that you'd be doing roughly a 5 week buildup before you get to those heavy ass weights. So the idea is that your max will have increased quite a bit by the time you hit the higher numbers. The end result, ie the gains over time, seemed within the realm of possibilities, but hard to know what would happen. It's probably a good idea to reduce them to about 10 lbs as you suggest.

How about this:

W1 (1x5) 205 255 305 355 405
W2 (1x5) 205 255 310 360 410
W3 (1x5) 210 260 310 365 415
W4 (1x5) 210 265 315 370 420
W5 (1x5) 215 265 320 370 425
W6 (1x3) 220 275 330 385 440
W7 (1x3) 230 285 340 400 455
W8 (1x3) 235 290 350 405 465
W9 (1x3) 240 295 355 415 475

Based on current 405x7 numbers, projected 5RM: ~430, projected 1RM: ~500
End result, based on a 475x3 lift, projected final 5RM: ~450, projected final 1RM: ~525
25 lbs added onto your max in roughly 8 weeks

In case you were wondering, this is based loosely off an advanced 8-week periodized pyramid program. Normally, the first four weeks are a volume phase of 5 straight sets of 5, followed by two weeks of 3 straight sets of 3, finally two weeks of a top set of 3. Since you wanted a routine specifically for deadlifts, I felt it prudent to get rid of straight sets, given the taxing nature of the exercise (ie most people don't do straight sets on deadlifts).

The heavy sets of three should be sufficient stimulus to give you gains. Keep in mind you're only doing it for 4 weeks and it'll be quite a bit different from the 5 rep stuff, given the significantly increased loads.

 

[_cato_]

Also, feel free to do assistance work as well (probably scattered throughout the week), though perhaps tail it back in the last week or two.

Weighted ab work, weighted back extensions, GHR, light/higher rep stiff leg deadlifts, chins/pullups/lat pulldown, barbell/dumbell row etc.

 

[moya]

the mother's of all DL assistance would be goodmorning's and zercher's....
also, not to take anything away from anyone here, but those 'projected maxes' are waaay off, even moreso when the reps are above 3's... my max dead is in the 510 range, however i can get 405 for at least 15... which would put my projected max over 550... which i know it ain't gonna happen..

 

[miked8c]

That looks about right _Cato_, I think I'll use that set of numbers for my program. So your saying that instead of doing 3x3 for the last few weeks a single topset of 3 would provide enough stimulation for growth because of the demanding nature of deadlifts?

Also, should I be doing those assistance exercises the same day as my DL day?

 

[_cato_]

Moya is right about the projected maxes. They are not always accurate and can be way off for some people. Just useful guidelines. You can get similar problems using tested maxes as well because by their nature they were your max whenever you took them and not when you are working out (unless it was taken then same day). Also individuals vary in the ability to lift X percentage for Y reps, regardless of 1RM. For example, women tend to be able to lift a higher percentage of 1RM for more reps, when compared to men, regardless of what the charts predict. In sum, these are just guidelines, you'll have to adjust things yourself as you go if things are too hard/too easy. Obviously, if I was there seeing the quality of your reps (ie how fast you're doing them, form deterioration if any, etc), then I could give you more concrete answers on whether/how much to increase weight etc.

Yes Mike, the top set approach should be fine for two reasons: 1) You'll be using weight in the ~90%+ range, which is a very high intensity and gains can be elicited by intensity or volume, or a combination of the two. 2) Clinically, ~60% intensity is required to elicit strength/muscle gains. Therefore, although there is only 1 top set of three, the last three columns in the routine I posted above are sufficiently high intensity as to be in that 60%+ range. In other words, although there's only 1 top set, the other sets are still intense enough to help elicit gains, even though you might be viewing them as warmups.

As for when to do the assistance work, my answer would depend on: what are you going to be doing with the rest of your workout days? Are you going to continue 5/3/1? Or do something else?

 

[miked8c]

I've got a bench routine which will take up two days a week. Don't worry about that, I already got something figured out.

However, I am worried about my squatting. I still want to squat heavy and lately I have been doing high rep ATG squats. Last week I did 335x12, this stuff get me sore.

Do you think for my squat day instead of doing high reps I should just do low reps, would that make me less sore for my DL day? Or may I should switch to front squats, as I recover quicker from them.

 

[_cato_]

So would it look something like this?

D1: Deadlift
D2: Bench day 1
D3: Off
D4: Squat
D5: Bench day 2
D6: Off
D7: Off

If its going to be like this, you could probably do heavy back squats, since you'll have 4 days to recover for the deadlifts. Also, if its going to be along these lines, I'd spread the assistance work out. Do maybe 1-2 exercises on deadlift day, another 1-2 on squat day. Maybe try to throw overhead presses (or incline), some core work, and chins/pullups in somewhere. You could also frontsquat on DL day if you wanted.

 

[miked8c]

Monday: Bench 1
Tuesday: Deadlift
Wednesday: OFF
Thursday: Bench 2
Friday: Squat
Saturday:OFF
Sunday: OFF

So Basically, I just switched my upper body days with my lower body days from what you had originally.

Would having my bench day right after my DL day make my bench day suffer, since the DLs will probably be pretty taxing on my CNS.

On the other hand I could get away with doing my DLs after my bench day without being negatively impacted since relatively speaking I am using much less muscle on my bench day so my DL wouldn't really suffer. Please correct me if you think otherwise.

 

[_cato_]

I think what you have is fine. What did you have in mind for deadlift and squat oriented assistance work?