Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Mithrandir]

tomorrow is the end of week two..I had to skip wednesday adn do cardio instead (2 hours of bball) since I jacked my back up doing rows...but tomorrow I am back on track, and I iwll throw in the pullups (since i missed them on wed) and sub the row with tbar rows with light weight so I keep my back in a recoop mode..do you think I lost too much by missing wednesday??? thanks

 

[Madcow2]

Not at all, you'll be fine.

 

[blut wump]

Would it be bad to split up some of the Day2 and Day3 work into a fourth day? Deadlifts knock the stuffing out of me and so do heavy squats on a Friday. I was thinking in terms of moving the Military Press and Chins/Pullups from Day2 and the barbell rows from Day3 to Thursday for a Day2.5.

I'm really thinking in terms of Week4. Volume would be unchanged on the week but fatigue levels might be changed with the alteration. It'd also mean that I'd be working back without having just worked chest which may be sub-optimal.

 

[Madcow2]

Generally, when you make an alteration like that you want to be consistent throughout the program as it can cause some variation in the weights you are able to lift for a given exercise. I don't see any problem with the layout though.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Not a bad idea, Blut. I'd be wary to change it around too much myself, since this is my first time going through it. I agree with Madcow in that it could change some weights around if you're not consistent, due to the level of fatigue when you hit the exercise, as opposed to hitting it fresh.

Still, the overall weekly volume is the important part, so you could probably get away with doing work on Tuesday/Thursday to divide it up. Not much need be moved around aside from deadlifts, though. It's food for though, definitely.

 

[blut wump]

It might be a good thing to lift a little more for week4 on a couple of exercises. If I'd thought about it earlier I probably still wouldn't have made the change until this week since weeks one and two were fine.

Week3's deadlift PR just put me on empty. I couldn't even power clean my warmups for Military Press and had to rest. Throw in the chins afterwards for two sets of 3 (yay, I can now do bodyweight for reps!) and then pulldowns to make up the volume. By today I was one big ache and the squats threw me back to almost empty which left the bench a struggle and then up came another 5x5 max attempt on rows. I was down to willpower again and being explosive was neither natural nor really attained.

I thought messing with week4 wouldn't distress the program if I don't lose volume and I'll be dropping down to the 2x intensity phase this time so big changes are imminent anyway. Maybe I need to work a lot more on my GPP for the future or maybe I didn't deload adequately from last cycle or maybe I'm just very susceptible to deadlift weariness.

I might leave the Military Press on the Wednesday since it might impinge on my triceps for Friday bench if moved to Thursday. At least I'll be fresh for chins and rows.

 

[Madcow2]

You'll be fine. The deadlift is taxing for everyone - maybe moreso to you because you are so new to it. Spread the volume for now and just grunt it out. Weeks 3/4 are what really determine the success of your training cycle. Plus, all of this provides more information to you about your tolerances. Maybe you are most suseptible to the deadlift right now (there is a reason why Westside avoids it), maybe 10 days of really heavy loading is adequate for you under these conditions. Maybe to get the most out of your squat you cut the deadlift back to 3x5 for the volume phase or substitute high pulls (although from the sound of it you are benefiting from the lift). All just food for thought but this is the kind of stuff you are learning.

 

[blut wump]

Thanks. Very encouraging.

There's a personal involvement with the deadlift which I don't feel with the other exercises. I feel anxiety every time I attempt it and a real sense of achievement at the end of a set. Maybe being new to it is part of that. I love it.

 

[Jim Ouini]

I just finished Wk 5 Day 3 (same weights as wk 4 of volume but 3 x 3/1x3)

I tried the mythical (to me, anyway) ATF squats for the first time. For most folks here it appears to be the de facto standard but for me I've always thought parallel was good enough and to be truthful I've missed parallel when going really heavy. Not quarter squats by any means but hips definitely above knee level.

This may not be the best time to introduce a revamped squat form but what the hell I'm kind of obsessed now with getting deep into the hole. I think like 'touch and go' deadlifts I'm going to take stock and adjust if necessary.

Anyway, looking up at a point high on the wall really helped me. I used to look straight ahead at the mirror but I felt my back was rounding too much the deeper I got.

Also, I had to narrow my stance to about shoulder width; therefore I felt my quads working a bit more. Still messing around with foot angle and suchlike.

If anyone else has any tip's 'n tricks I'd appreciate it.

I did 1-2 rep warmups up to my set of 1 x 3 (about 7 sets total. Hope that's not too much volume).

It went pretty well up to 295. Then 315 I think I missed it (my hips shot back a bit trying to get out of the hole) and 325 (which I tried since it's my max 1 x 3 day and using the same weight as last week) I didn't get low enough.

Still, I"m somewhat encouraged since I thought I'd have to start all over again at 135.

Bench
Bar x 10
135 x 5
185 x 2
230 x 3 x 3

I've never liked benching. Mostly because I suck at it. Much prefer incline db press but no biggie.

BB row
Bar x 10
135 x 5
185 x 2
235 x 3 x 3

These felt good. Nice and tight, elbow didn't hurt.

 

[Mithrandir]

I went ahead and did what i said..pullups with 35 pounds for 5x5 (though Ineeded a spot on set 4-5 on the last rep) and squats went up to 280, so I am happy about that...bench went DOWN???? I missed hte DB incline on wed..but I went down five pounds and it was STILL hard?? oh well, I guess just a bad day...MOnday could be better (starting week three, daunting)---I also threw in some hammer curls; I did these after the pullups--man you sure drop weight..about ten pounds I dropped..I love this program...I cannot wait till I can row again...I cannot wait for the second time I do this program.


mith