Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[Jim Ouini]

I just finished Day 2 of Wk 5. This week really is like a holiday.

I'm not sure how many warmups to do since it's supposed to be low volume/high intensity but I'm just working my way up to my maxes in a reasonable fashion, 1 or 2 reps just to get the feel.

DL:
Bar x 10
135 x 5
185 x 2
225 x 1
275 x 1 (sumo)
275 x 1 (reg)
295 x 1 (sumo)
295 x 1 (reg)
325 x 3 x 3 (sumo-reg-sumo)

I've been doing sumo the whole time but wanted to kind of 'test' my conventional stance since that's the way I used to do it. It went very well.

Standing Military (I suck at these)
Bar x 5
95 x 2
115 x 3 x 3.

I just realized I mis-loaded my weights. Should've been 125. No wonder it felt easy.

Dang.

Weighted Pull-Up
35 x 3 x 3

These are OK. My elbow bothers me when I do weighted so I'm only going up to chin level.

All in all I feel pretty strong this week. I am looking forward to ramping up the next few weeks to see if I've gained some strength. I'm pretty sure my deads are coming along.

EDIT: Aw man I just read this:

Deadlifts: The bar is pulled from the floor every rep. No touch and go except on warmups. The bar becomes completely deweighted on the floor before pulling again.

I've been doing touch and go. 2 and 3rd reps felt real easy

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Table of Contents for this Thread:

<testing it out and hopefully I can eventually get a Mod to edit it into the first post in this thread. If anyone notices errors or something else that should be included, please PM me>


The Program

5x5 Main Thread (Bill Starr/JS182):
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215

Program Description – Dual Factor (Good idea to read them all):
Madcow: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4491869&postcount=1
Animalmass: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497628&postcount=10
JohnSmith182: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497659&postcount=12
Deloading/Intensity Variations 2x and 3x weekly: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497645&postcount=11

Dual Factor Theory - Why this Works:
(The further one progresses the more critical it becomes to understand basic training concepts like this. If you aren't familiar with this, it is absolutely essential. This is how top athletes in sport are trained the world over and this includes adding LBM in addition to strength, speed, and power.)
JS182: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showpost.php?p=48&postcount=3
Matt Reynolds: http://www.readthecore.com/200501/reynolds-dual-factor-training.htm
Madcow (post #15 and on): http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372686

Novice Lifter Version – Single Factor:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

Weight Selection/Time Between Sets/Exercise Substitution:
(The long and short is Important/Take what you need/Don't fuck with this especially the squats. Adding some arm work once a week is fine. Subbing incline for standing military is fine. Adding core work and doing cardio is fine. Do not sub in a machine variant unless you are injured or over 65.)
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372686
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371821
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4646743&postcount=201
Sample Layout (don’t read too much into this, it’s just some random selections to illustrate how the weight would progress to the record weeks): http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4652618&postcount=211

Some Results From Members:
blut wump: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4623386&postcount=125
super_rice: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4631651&postcount=140
Ghettostudmuffin:...Week 5: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4633372&postcount=154
...........................Week 6: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4636680&postcount=166
BionicBC: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4734736&postcount=345
Ceasar989:....http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4643420&postcount=185
...................http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4690062&postcount=289

Why Haven’t Most BBers Heard of This Type of Training if It’s so Commonly Used Around the World for Athletics, Powerlifting, and Olympic Lifting?
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4627437&postcount=133
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658210&postcount=234

Beyond the 5x5 – Planning Your Training Cycles:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4643459&postcount=186

For the Drug Users – The Training Cycle and Anabolics:
(Note - I do not condone or advise the use of drugs (and really, the whole point in this is to give people a program that can actually get good results without drugs) but this comes up semi-frequently and the reason a lot of people got into drugs in the first place was because their training stalled out for a prolonged period so it makes sense to address this also so that everyone can benefit)
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4633338&postcount=153





Exercise Descriptions / A Few Other Very Successful Programs / Acceleration – Do Not Ignore This

Why Speed/Acceleration is Critical in Lifting:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4624616&postcount=62

Correct Way to Perform Barbell Rows:
(2 Variations – the one at the bottom of page 1 is best)
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366601
Links to pics: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4697367&postcount=301

The Only Shrug – The Power Shrug:
(Toss out the bullshit standard shrug - enjoy big increases in the mirror and increase your explosive power all at once)
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4712284&postcount=319

Glenn Pendlay on Mark Ripptoe’s Squat Program for New Lifters:
(routinely gets 30-40lbs of bodyweight increase within 6 months)
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658227&postcount=235

Smolov Squat Cycle:
(Considered the holy grail of squat programs - very demanding)
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4610310&postcount=107

Some General Exercise Description and Video Links:
Very detailed Squat, Deadlift, and Benchpress descriptions are stickied in the PLing forum these are 'must reads' for every lifter:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7
Videos:
http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm
http://www.joeskopec.com/assist.html
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/Home.htm







Sources for Knowledge, Interviews, Articles

Good Sources of Knowledge/Books/Links:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4323293&postcount=3

Interview with Strength Coach Glenn Pendlay:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4633481&postcount=155

Renowned Speed Coach Charlie Francis on HIT:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4678430&postcount=285

WSB Louie Simmons – What a Gym Needs:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls8.htm

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I've been doing touch and go. 2 and 3rd reps felt real easy

Yeah - that's kind of why they call it the "dead"lift as in the weight being dead on the ground. The main issue you are going to have is that the first rep is a lot harder than the subsequent ones so when you increase each week that first rep becomes a lot more of a load than it would normally be if all reps were from a deweight on the floor and identical like the rest of your exercises. Luckily this is a good break point so maybe drop back to 300/295ish (maybe more - see how it feels) for week 6 and complete the intensity phase doing it without the touch and go. Use week 6 as a barometer and just make conservative jumps to shoot for really pushing yourself week 9 and maybe week 8 if things fall into line and you guesstimate correctly. Not the end of the world though. You could have subbed leg press for full squats or something like that.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Yeah - that's kind of why they call it the "dead"lift as in the weight being dead on the ground. The main issue you are going to have is that the first rep is a lot harder than the subsequent ones so when you increase each week that first rep becomes a lot more of a load than it would normally be if all reps were from a deweight on the floor and identical like the rest of your exercises. Luckily this is a good break point so maybe drop back to 300/295ish for week 6 and complete the intensity phase doing it without the touch and go. Use week 6 as a barometer and just make conservative jumps to shoot for really pushing yourself week 9 and maybe week 8 if things fall into line and you guesstimate correctly. Not the end of the world though. You could have subbed leg press for full squats or something like that.

Thank you for the reply. I was actually wondering this exact question since I understood the key for the next 4 wks is to keep upping the weights, and dropping down a bit to accomodate for the 'dead' in the deadlift might compromise this.

I'll gauge the weights next week as I pyramid up, maybe I can handle the same. It is the intensity phase after all and to be honest reps 2 and 3 with touch & go didn't feel all that intense.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Crap, I've been doing the 'touch and go' method myself. Between this, the barbell rows (and just figuring out how to do them a week ago) and my lightweights (was coming off of being sick when I started so I was conservative with weight selection), I'll just chalk up this round to being a learning experience and nail it all the next time around.

That being said, I'm still making some pretty impressive progress this time around.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Thank you for the reply. I was actually wondering this exact question since I understood the key for the next 4 wks is to keep upping the weights, and dropping down a bit to accomodate for the 'dead' in the deadlift might compromise this.

I'll gauge the weights next week as I pyramid up, maybe I can handle the same. It is the intensity phase after all and to be honest reps 2 and 3 with touch & go didn't feel all that intense.

The issue if you are using the 3x per week deloading/intensity protocol is that you still need room to ramp the weights and the deadlift is very strenuous so this is the wrong lift to train too heavily because it might make inroads too quickly rather than leave you fresh for weeks 8/9. If you are using the 2x per week it won't be a big deal.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

The issue if you are using the 3x per week deloading/intensity protocol is that you still need room to ramp the weights and the deadlift is very strenuous so this is the wrong lift to train too heavily because it might make inroads too quickly rather than leave you fresh for weeks 8/9. If you are using the 2x per week it won't be a big deal.

Actually I'm doing the 3x per week deloading.

I read through the 2x week deload; so the basic difference I see is that in the switch to 3 x 3 instead of dropping squats on Wed, you drop the Friday workout altogether.

What are the factors one should consider when deciding which deloading protocol to use?

I read in the 2x/3x deloading link you provided that 'inadequate deloading due to improperly setting your weights' in the 3x/week will screw it up.

I had planned on simply upping my weights 5-10lbs every week from Wk 5. Is the risk in setting the weights too high too soon? I thought I read somewhere (probably in this thread) that if you fail at a weight in the intensity phase to keep pushing on through (maybe I read this wrong).

Also, you mention that one may need to adjust during this phase as well, with an extra day of rest or slashing volume (I guess this means an entire workout) - what are the factors here - missing lifts? or just physically tired/burned out?

Sorry for all the questions and if they'd already been answered in the links above.

 

[Madcow2]

The 3x per week protocol generally includes too much volume for most people to adequately deload properly and still ramp up to records for 1x3 and 3x3 in weeks 8/9. The increasing 5-10lbs per week was for the 2x per week deload but you could use it here for a few weeks if it makes sense for you. In the 3x per week you need to have targets figured for 3x3 and 1x3 and gradually progress to those over weeks 6-9. A lot of people have gotten away with keeping the weights relatively light and really only pushing records in week 9 rather than both 8/9 being greater than a relevant previous record, then deloading again before the next volume phase. That certainly will work. Another option is to take extra days and/or cut some volume as needed but "as needed" implicitly assumes some experience for a reference and most people doing this for the first time don't have that luxury.

 

[Jim Ouini]

Ok understand. Thanks.

 

[Madcow2]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Crap, I've been doing the 'touch and go' method myself. Between this, the barbell rows (and just figuring out how to do them a week ago) and my lightweights (was coming off of being sick when I started so I was conservative with weight selection), I'll just chalk up this round to being a learning experience and nail it all the next time around.

That being said, I'm still making some pretty impressive progress this time around.

It would be a shitty program if you had to nail everything perfectly to see decent results. This thing is really hard to screw up too badly. As long as people don't swap in machines or screw with it too much, it's really kind of autopilot. Obviously getting 100% may not be in the cards but 70% of a really productive 2 month training cycle is still more than most people on your standard Flex magazine program are likely to see in a year. The nice thing is that once you've gone through it once, your weight selection will be near perfect and you'll have a very solid understanding of your own tolerances so it becomes a lot easier to get as much as possible out of this or a similar style program.