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Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!
- Thread starter BionicBC
- Start date
Don't you think Bill Starr's 5X5 is too little?
I follow Arnold's routine:
1st set: 15 to failure.
2nd set: Increase weight: 10 to failure
3rd set: Increase weight: 8 to failure.
4th set: Increase weight: 6 to failure
5th (optional): Same weight, try 6 to failure.
I think by definition, a set means to failure, but not in Bill Starr's method.
Am I wrong?
I follow Arnold's routine:
1st set: 15 to failure.
2nd set: Increase weight: 10 to failure
3rd set: Increase weight: 8 to failure.
4th set: Increase weight: 6 to failure
5th (optional): Same weight, try 6 to failure.
I think by definition, a set means to failure, but not in Bill Starr's method.
Am I wrong?
blut wump
New member
A set is just a grouped number of repetitions, maybe even just a single. There's no implication of failure.
With the dual factor system it's generally optimal not to go to failure. The first stage is about overloading the body's ability to recover from fatigue so you run a fairly high volume which taxes the body's, rather than just the muscle's, ability to recover. At the point where the body is about to make you stop working out you ease up on it and give it its recovery period. It'll then generally take about a month before it is fully back to normal during which time you work the intensity phase of the program and keep the volume fairly low.
As to whether it's too little: it wasn't for me. You may be in better shape than I was when I ran it but then you'll probably run higher weights or work faster or add one or two more exercises than I did if that's the case so that it'll be fine for you. Madcow has mentioned that even elite athletes will run Bill Starr's program and make gains.
With the dual factor system it's generally optimal not to go to failure. The first stage is about overloading the body's ability to recover from fatigue so you run a fairly high volume which taxes the body's, rather than just the muscle's, ability to recover. At the point where the body is about to make you stop working out you ease up on it and give it its recovery period. It'll then generally take about a month before it is fully back to normal during which time you work the intensity phase of the program and keep the volume fairly low.
As to whether it's too little: it wasn't for me. You may be in better shape than I was when I ran it but then you'll probably run higher weights or work faster or add one or two more exercises than I did if that's the case so that it'll be fine for you. Madcow has mentioned that even elite athletes will run Bill Starr's program and make gains.
Mithrandir
New member
Bionic, I did not mean to do it that way, I was focusing on the lift and on my back, and my knees just stuck..ha, I am not supporting fucking your hams up from lifting it wrong..btw, I slept 11 damn hours today (2.24 PM now)--I think this program makes me tired..my hams are soooo jacked..no bball 
Mith
Mith
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
*********UPDATE*********
Week 9, Day 3, 4/7/05
SQUAT-since this is my last week of this round of 5x5, and a record-setting week at that, I decided to max out on Squat.
135x3
225x3
315x1
405x2=I was going to try just for one, as my previous best was 365x2-3 (last week), but it came up so easy i did two reps!
455x1=I had to try, and Ill be damned if i didnt get it. Fuckin awesome....
BENCH
(PS-i hate bench press.)
135x3
225x1
245x3, 3 sets
ROW
135x3
225x1
265x3, 3 sets
So now that im Finished with my first run of the 5x5, I can definately say that this program works for building massive strength. Im not sure EXACTLY how much all my lifts went up, because Im not too sure of my previous maxes. Somewhere in the area of:
Previous Max---------------Current Max
SQUAT-------about 300-350 455
BENCH----250 (when on), 235 (off) 265
DEADLIFT----around 365 455
455lbs+265lbs+455lbs=1175lbs. Not too bad, IMO. (current bodyweight=190lbs, about 8-9% b/f. To add to these results, for the past 4 weeks or so Ive cut my carbs in half more or less, been doing cardio 3 times a week for 30-45 minutes, and reduced my calories down a good bit to 'cut up' for summer, so the scale reads basically the same as when i started, but I believe I gained a few pounds of muscle, and lost some bodyfat. Im very pleased. Im resting until Monday and Im gonna do it again, with some slight variations.... Thanx Madcow2...
Bionic
*********UPDATE*********
Week 9, Day 3, 4/7/05
SQUAT-since this is my last week of this round of 5x5, and a record-setting week at that, I decided to max out on Squat.
135x3
225x3
315x1
405x2=I was going to try just for one, as my previous best was 365x2-3 (last week), but it came up so easy i did two reps!
455x1=I had to try, and Ill be damned if i didnt get it. Fuckin awesome....
BENCH
(PS-i hate bench press.)
135x3
225x1
245x3, 3 sets
ROW
135x3
225x1
265x3, 3 sets
So now that im Finished with my first run of the 5x5, I can definately say that this program works for building massive strength. Im not sure EXACTLY how much all my lifts went up, because Im not too sure of my previous maxes. Somewhere in the area of:
Previous Max---------------Current Max
SQUAT-------about 300-350 455
BENCH----250 (when on), 235 (off) 265
DEADLIFT----around 365 455
455lbs+265lbs+455lbs=1175lbs. Not too bad, IMO. (current bodyweight=190lbs, about 8-9% b/f. To add to these results, for the past 4 weeks or so Ive cut my carbs in half more or less, been doing cardio 3 times a week for 30-45 minutes, and reduced my calories down a good bit to 'cut up' for summer, so the scale reads basically the same as when i started, but I believe I gained a few pounds of muscle, and lost some bodyfat. Im very pleased. Im resting until Monday and Im gonna do it again, with some slight variations.... Thanx Madcow2...
Bionic
Last edited:
Mithrandir
New member
I have a question.. I think I nerfed my back today...my spine and my neck are wrecked...??? will this pain go away?
I squated first 260 3x5 270 2x5
then benched 155 2x5 160 3x5 (last rep on the last two sets, I had a spot)
then row (this is when it hurt) 2x5 135 3x5 185
I made sure I had good form, and my friend made sure my back was straight, arched and not twisting for any reason. I was about at a 60 degree angle and I pull the weight to my abdomen focusing on the weight and pinching my shoulders back..but my neck hurts so bad I cannot turn my head to see if cars are coming, and my back hurts really badly too. Will I be okay for Monday's wokrout??? please help
Thanks
I squated first 260 3x5 270 2x5
then benched 155 2x5 160 3x5 (last rep on the last two sets, I had a spot)
then row (this is when it hurt) 2x5 135 3x5 185
I made sure I had good form, and my friend made sure my back was straight, arched and not twisting for any reason. I was about at a 60 degree angle and I pull the weight to my abdomen focusing on the weight and pinching my shoulders back..but my neck hurts so bad I cannot turn my head to see if cars are coming, and my back hurts really badly too. Will I be okay for Monday's wokrout??? please help
Thanks
Jim Ouini
New member
I just finished Wk 4 Day 3 (Max + Squat 1 x 5, Bench 5 x 5, BB row 5 x 5).
I failed on some of my lifts, so I had to ratchet down a bit to get my reps in. Not sure if it was the cumulative loading, the max deads on Wed, the fact that I caught a cold on Wed (damn Bally's gym) or maybe I'm just weak.
Squat:
Bar x 10
185 x 5
225 x 5
275 x 5
315 x 5
365 x 3 ANNTF (Ass nowhere near the floor), failed. Maybe too big a jump.
345 x 5 (last weeks max)
I brought my belt just in case but ended up not using it at all. Maybe I should have on my 365 attempt. But trying to go through the whole thing beltless (except for maybe wk 9-10)
Bench
Bar x 10
135 x 5
185 x 2
230 x 2 x 5
230 x 1 x 4 (failed of 5th rep)
225 x 2 x 5 (last weeks' max)
BB row
Bar x 10
135 x 5
185 x 2
235 x 5 x 5. Had to use a little body english last few reps. Otherwise pretty good form, pulling off the floor and back parallel.
This was a tough week, looking forward to Wk5, I feel like I just won a trip to the Bahamas.
I failed on some of my lifts, so I had to ratchet down a bit to get my reps in. Not sure if it was the cumulative loading, the max deads on Wed, the fact that I caught a cold on Wed (damn Bally's gym) or maybe I'm just weak.
Squat:
Bar x 10
185 x 5
225 x 5
275 x 5
315 x 5
365 x 3 ANNTF (Ass nowhere near the floor), failed. Maybe too big a jump.
345 x 5 (last weeks max)
I brought my belt just in case but ended up not using it at all. Maybe I should have on my 365 attempt. But trying to go through the whole thing beltless (except for maybe wk 9-10)
Bench
Bar x 10
135 x 5
185 x 2
230 x 2 x 5
230 x 1 x 4 (failed of 5th rep)
225 x 2 x 5 (last weeks' max)
BB row
Bar x 10
135 x 5
185 x 2
235 x 5 x 5. Had to use a little body english last few reps. Otherwise pretty good form, pulling off the floor and back parallel.
This was a tough week, looking forward to Wk5, I feel like I just won a trip to the Bahamas.
question for madcow. i have a friend that hopefully wants to start weight training. I was thinking of putting him on the nonperiodized program but there are 2 issues:
1. hed be just learning the form on squats and dls. is it safe for him to go to a 5rm from the beginning?
2. he is nowhere near flexible enough to do barbell rows properly. what would be good to increase flexibilty, and what could he do meanwhile?
thanks!
1. hed be just learning the form on squats and dls. is it safe for him to go to a 5rm from the beginning?
2. he is nowhere near flexible enough to do barbell rows properly. what would be good to increase flexibilty, and what could he do meanwhile?
thanks!
Jim Ouini
New member
Yeah it was a pretty sorry set. I didn't prepare myself very well for the lift, had a lot of negative thoughts in my head wondering if I should be wearing my belt or not.
It was pretty embarrassing, to the point where if one of Bally's finest tapped me on the shoulder afterward and said to me 'Sir, could I interest you in some personal training sessions', I don't think I'd rightfully been able to dispute it.
It was pretty embarrassing, to the point where if one of Bally's finest tapped me on the shoulder afterward and said to me 'Sir, could I interest you in some personal training sessions', I don't think I'd rightfully been able to dispute it.
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