Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!

[dominator82]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

i am almost finished week 9, some great results, wil post them all soon, Bango, i hope someone answers your question with more knowledge than me because when i stall i will be asking the same thing

 

[u418936]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

If you're feeling overtrained, it's okay to deload for a week. If I were bango (i.e., about to start week 12 and supposed to squat a rep PR of 375x5), and I wanted to deload for a week, I'd do something like 135x5, 185x5, 225x3, 275x3, 320x1 for squats on Mon and Fri. I'd also do a similar deload on all the other lifts. The idea behind the deload is that you want to keep intensity high (to maintain strength without taxing the CNS) but volume low (to recover). The next week, I'd do the week 12 workout.

When you get stuck on all your lifts, and you don't feel like you can make any more progress, you should deload for a couple of weeks and reset the program.

 

[dominator82]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

i did the advanced 5x5, and after 4 weeks volume did the deload and peak ,thanks for the help u418936 i found that pretty simple and usefull. i just finished week 9 and my bench went from 286 pounds or 130 kg for 5 reps, to 147.5 or 325 pounds for 3, my squat went from 150kg or 330 pounds for 5 to 180kg or 396 pounds for 3, the other exercises such as pendlay row were new to me, and push press i had not done much of but it went up lots, also my palms facing me chins went from 25kg or 55 pounds for 5 to 45kg or 100 pounds for 3. For me these results were great as i hade been stuck on previous numbers for some time, to increase so much was alot of fun and taught me alot about loading and deloading that i can use forever, thanks so much to madcow and the others that gave all the info. I did not gain much muscle size and i definately ate enough as i put on fat but the main focus for this cycle was strength so i achieved my goal

 

[skyflyer231]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I'm going to do this routine sometime in the future.

 

[AJHAMMER]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

after reading only 1% of all the info available my head is already spinning, forget 90% available. I reckon 3 days workout and rest off 4 days. Do i just do only the workout that is mention ( S, D, Rows, press ..) no curls or any isolation exercises?. Just stick to the program for good amount of time, who knows how long, and not include any other exercises. I am more confused than i was before.

Help me brotha.

 

[WiggyWild]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I'm on a 600 calorie restricted diet and I have still been gaining 1 lb a week. BF is decreasing so obviously its muscle gains from this monstrous program. I've put 50 lbs on my bench and 70 lbs on my squat in like 6 weeks.

Question: I read somewhere that after you reset once or twice, you can still get some awesome strength and size gains by going to a 3x3 or 5x3 or something.

Is it a bad idea to run that program until no more gains are made?

 

[dominator82]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Ajhammer, as you said you only read 1% of the info, it took me a while but i suggest you read the training primer, then pick the intermediate level program and read it back to front a few times, it should make sense madcow has not left out any details. Wiggywild- sounds like you are getting great results, run the i have been program until you stall and plateau, then re set which ever lifts are stalled by dropping the weight by around 10% and working your way up and hopefully past your previous best,if you do this and still nothing, maybe its time to do a more advanced program or look at increasing calories if you are happy with your body fat, i notice i am much stronger when i eat higher calories, i have read nearly all the info and this was my understanding, someone correct me if i am wrong,

 

[dominator82]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

i just finished my second volume phase, noticed some weight gain this time and not much fat, all lifts went up mainly squat this time, looking forward to seeing the end results again.I noticed a HUGE difference in strength when i ate more (lots of milk,whole eggs and berry shakes because i get sick of eating) and slept more, this sounds like common sense but sometimes we forget the basics

 

[blargle]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Madcow's site says you can use the program as a template, and I'm looking to modify it a bit. I'm willing to accept slower gains at this point in order to go easier on my joints.

-Is there an acceptable substitute for hyperextensions, such as good mornings? I don't have a hyperextension machine or someone to hold my feet on a regular bench.
-Is it possible to alternate weeks of bench press and overhead press to give my shoulders a break? Aka bench/press/bench the first week and press/bench/press the next.
-Has anyone worked front squats into the program, back squat one week, front squat the next week?

 

[glennpendlay]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

yes to question 1, yes to question 2, if you want to do FS, simply alternate workouts.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey fellahs, a few questions:

1) I've been doing the olympic lifts for the past 9 months (with very little increase in weight ) and I haven't touched the bench at all. Should I start the bench under novice or intermediate?
2) What are the set/rep schemes if you want to add the high pull and power clean?

EDIT: Also, I haven't done curls/skullcrushers for 2 years. What starting weight do I go for? Nothing too intense, right?

 

[WiggyWild]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

1) I'd say 5x5 read every single thing on the site. Even a beginner will progress nicely on intermediate, they just may progress faster than the recommended uppage. Some weeks I just felt like a beast and would up the weight accordingly.

I prolly wouldn't throw in the assistance until the second or maybe even third week. Squatting 3x takes a lil time to get used to. Believe it or not it will get our abs and deads will really get your lower back. The main reason I say this though is so you can guage what effect they are having on ur big lifts so u know when to cut them.

2) I recommend following it for 8 weeks before u mess with it too much. You really have no idea how much you can gain until you try it in its raw form.

Power cleans are a fine sub for rows as the site says.

I hate to do it, but I'm cutting push press for incline. My chest looks small in comparison without that 10 lbs of extra fat hanging around!

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Another quick question. Could I just ditch the curls for some chin ups?

 

[dominator82]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

re question 2 , you can replace rows with power cleans or high pulls im pretty sure it says as the original bill star version did this. Re skull crushers and curls the program doesnt include them from what i have read but if you want to add them madcow says go for higher reps like 3x15 and of course start easy,

 

[Solid_Spartan]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I'm reading up on this right now, only on page 6. I've done the program before and got the gist of it then, but I really want to know all of the intricate details. I have a ton of reading to do, as I plan on reading the entire thread.

That said, I'm currently on week 4 of the intermediate workout. So I should be setting PRs this week. Monday was pretty easy for me, so it looks like the workout is working.

Should I make the switch to the advanced workout now? I've been training for 9 years, seriously for about five years with injuries forcing me to take some time off. Should I mess with it and begin the advanced phase now, or finish this cycle first?

And if the answer is to finish this cycle first (However long I can go while still making progress), how do I jump into the advanced workout? I'd guess I should do a deloading of 3x3 for 3-4 weeks first then get right into the advanced cycle. But that's only a guess. Any help from anyone in this thread would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dominator82]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

stick to the program till its finished, your making gains all is well, why make slower gains on the advanced program? stick to the one that gives you fastest results. Before going into the advanced one deload at least a week and see how you feel, im not one of the experts here like pendlay etc.. but i have done the advanced program twice and read most of what is here, hope i was of some use, i finished week 8 of the advanced program today, all my pb's beaten, great feeling.

 

[Solid_Spartan]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

stick to the program till its finished, your making gains all is well, why make slower gains on the advanced program? stick to the one that gives you fastest results. Before going into the advanced one deload at least a week and see how you feel, im not one of the experts here like pendlay etc.. but i have done the advanced program twice and read most of what is here, hope i was of some use, i finished week 8 of the advanced program today, all my pb's beaten, great feeling.

Definitely a help.

I crushed my PRs last week. It was ridiculously easy to do the weight. Then again, I used to be able to do these weights 2-3 years ago no problem, but the injuries really hampered my ability to lift. Now that I'm finally healthy, I'm thinking that I started this at the right time and now I'm making huge jumps back to where I was prior.

My body felt like crap this week, though. Run down from constantly being on the go, so I'm deloading for a week this week then picking it back up where I left off next week. My body could use a slight break.

 

[blargle]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I can't seem to find the part on how to deal with stalling on Monday/stalling on Friday and the percentage to reset (Intermediate program), but I remember their a post on it.. anyone have a link to it? Madcow's geocities site also doesn't seem to have that information beyond a vague mention.

 

[dominator82]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

blargle, if you stall my understanding was to reset, so if you go at 200 pounds for ex on bench and dont get it, try again dont get it, drop it to maybe 190 pounds and work your way up again, i think you re set 2 weeks back or around there

 

[4CRWZN]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey guys have started this program tonight i have used the 5x5 calculator
and have used the weights that its told me to.
i havnt seemed to be anywhere near maxing out on any of the sets??
is this ment to happen for a couple of weeks or are you ment to be setting new prs from the start??? Hellppppp..

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey guys have started this program tonight i have used the 5x5 calculator
and have used the weights that its told me to.
i havnt seemed to be anywhere near maxing out on any of the sets??
is this ment to happen for a couple of weeks or are you ment to be setting new prs from the start??? Hellppppp..

Did you read the website at all?

It is supposed to be easy for the first 4 weeks. You'll be making PR's every week form week 5 and on. It is better to start conservative, get your body ready to make the Pr's that are ahead. Stick with it.

 

[ceo]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Did you read the website at all?

It is supposed to be easy for the first 4 weeks. You'll be making PR's every week form week 5 and on. It is better to start conservative, get your body ready to make the Pr's that are ahead. Stick with it.

djeclipse! Where you been bro? Good to see you.

 

[LiquidPhire]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

This 5x5 is so sick im doing it now, loving it! so on point!

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

djeclipse! Where you been bro? Good to see you.

Hey Hows it going?

I've been busy with personal stuff, have been training on and off, but not as much as I should have. I am finally back on track and will try not to let to much get in the way of training.

Every once in a while I'll get a notification that someone replied to a thread I posted in a while back and I'll check out the board. I saw there were a few 5x5 threads going so I replied to a few.

To be honest one of the main reasons I stay away from the board is for some reason the colours of the board, the contrast of the text and the background give me a really bad headache. I always thought it was tension in my neck form doing squats, deads etc. but I realize it was just a coincidence as I was always reading this board when I was training. Other message boards are fine. It would be nice if there were other "skin" options or if we could customize it ourselves.

 

[ceo]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

To be honest one of the main reasons I stay away from the board is for some reason the colours of the board, the contrast of the text and the background give me a really bad headache. I always thought it was tension in my neck form doing squats, deads etc. but I realize it was just a coincidence as I was always reading this board when I was training. Other message boards are fine. It would be nice if there were other "skin" options or if we could customize it ourselves.

customizable skins would be a cool feature, I agree. I think it has been brought up in the past. Not sure what the story is though. I'll bring it up again though.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

customizable skins would be a cool feature, I agree. I think it has been brought up in the past. Not sure what the story is though. I'll bring it up again though.

It probably has something to do with the software they use.

Maybe an alternative skin for us to choose from. For me it is just the contrast of the lettering and the background here. 5 min of reading posts here and I get a headache that lasts all day.

I read these message boards all day long and have no problems.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/teksavvy

BeaverDams Racing :: Index

The slight colour difference, of the text and back ground make a big difference.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey guys,

I've been on the program for 23 days now and i'm liking it. I've put on about 1.9kg so far, hoping to put on a 10 more and get over 100kg

I have been having problems with monday squats. Unfortunately, I haven't been preparing myself for these heavy sessions e.g. last Monday, I tried to do a heavy session with 2 hours of sleep and without having eaten for the whole day. I ended up getting to the 4th set of squats before I decided to quit and come in tomorrow. On Tuesday, I attempted the 5RM but only got 2 reps out. Again, I didn't eat anything that day and I did do 4 sets of squats on the day before. I decided to drop back to 100kg and do 4 reps so I wouldn't be missing out on any of the work.
Anywho, this has happened for the past 2 sessions and ONLY on mondays. However, when Friday comes around, I'm able to get my 3RM easily. My question is, should I continue the program without resetting and with better planning or should I drop back until I'm able to complete a monday session?

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Well fellahs, good news. I got 110kg x3 today, so I guess I missed the 107.5x5 on monday because I needed fooooooooood.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey guys,

I've been on the program for 23 days now and i'm liking it. I've put on about 1.9kg so far, hoping to put on a 10 more and get over 100kg

I have been having problems with monday squats. Unfortunately, I haven't been preparing myself for these heavy sessions e.g. last Monday, I tried to do a heavy session with 2 hours of sleep and without having eaten for the whole day. I ended up getting to the 4th set of squats before I decided to quit and come in tomorrow. On Tuesday, I attempted the 5RM but only got 2 reps out. Again, I didn't eat anything that day and I did do 4 sets of squats on the day before. I decided to drop back to 100kg and do 4 reps so I wouldn't be missing out on any of the work.
Anywho, this has happened for the past 2 sessions and ONLY on mondays. However, when Friday comes around, I'm able to get my 3RM easily. My question is, should I continue the program without resetting and with better planning or should I drop back until I'm able to complete a monday session?

How are your other lifts going, are they going up still?

You shouldn't be failing on any of your lifts in the first 4 weeks. That tells me you made the same mistake most people make and set your weights too hight right from the start.

The first 4 weeks should be easy. Even without much sleep you should be able to get all your reps in the first 4 weeks guaranteed, as you are just building up to your 5 rem maxes by week 4.

Now that you are starting to fail you have just wasted the last month (or 23 days) as instead of adding weight to the bar for weeks to come you will probably start to fail on all your lifts soon, having to start all over again.

Check the ego, start conservatively and you will get so much more out of the program.

This program when done properly works amazingly, planed over reaching (not over training) when done right is a great thing. In the later weeks, when you're adding weight to all your lifts, eventually on friday you will barely get that 3 rep set in, and think to yourself there is no way you'll get 5 on monday. Then monday comes, and you get that 5 reps. Then firday comes and you think you'll never be able to add more to the bar after just making the reps last week, yet you get it (and so on). This program in the later weeks is hard on the body, you'll sleep like a baby at night as you'll need all that rest to recover.

Point being, it seems very easy at the beginning, only 3x per week, only a few different exercises, but once you start adding weight to the bar and making PR's, get into that over reaching part of the program, it is tough.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

How are your other lifts going, are they going up still?

You shouldn't be failing on any of your lifts in the first 4 weeks. That tells me you made the same mistake most people make and set your weights too hight right from the start.

Well I put my 1RM (120kg) into the excel sheet, and that's what I'm basing it off. I did this 1RM in November of 2008, so I didn't see a problem with it.
On that day, I also missed the power cleans. These felt extremely sluggish and they were not fast enough, and I've had this happen to me when I tried power cleaning without much sleep/food, so I thought the same thing happened again. My bench press is still increasing, but my military press is starting to get hard.

Now that you are starting to fail you have just wasted the last month (or 23 days) as instead of adding weight to the bar for weeks to come you will probably start to fail on all your lifts soon, having to start all over again.


Check the ego, start conservatively and you will get so much more out of the program.

Well I tried 110kg x 3 on Friday and I got it. I felt like I could do 110kg x 4 to be honest. I'm guessing that if I could only manage to squeeze out 107.5kg x 3 on Monday and I easily got 110kg x 3 on Friday, then I either became stronger or I didn't rest/eat well.

To be honest, my sleeping patterns are really screwed and I do think that it is impacting on training. Most nights (~4 out 7) I get 6.5-7 hours of sleep MAX whilst on the other 3, I might be lucky to get 8-9 hours.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Well I put my 1RM (120kg) into the excel sheet, and that's what I'm basing it off. I did this 1RM in November of 2008, so I didn't see a problem with it.
On that day, I also missed the power cleans. These felt extremely sluggish and they were not fast enough, and I've had this happen to me when I tried power cleaning without much sleep/food, so I thought the same thing happened again. My bench press is still increasing, but my military press is starting to get hard.



Well I tried 110kg x 3 on Friday and I got it. I felt like I could do 110kg x 4 to be honest. I'm guessing that if I could only manage to squeeze out 107.5kg x 3 on Monday and I easily got 110kg x 3 on Friday, then I either became stronger or I didn't rest/eat well.

To be honest, my sleeping patterns are really screwed and I do think that it is impacting on training. Most nights (~4 out 7) I get 6.5-7 hours of sleep MAX whilst on the other 3, I might be lucky to get 8-9 hours.

November 2008? What does that have to do with Mar 2009? It's not your all time maxes, but your current 5 rep maxes. You are supposed tot take a week and figure out your CURRENT 5 rep maxes and use them.

If you are starting to stall in only week 3 you clearly set your weight's too high and aren't going to get much out of the program. Mad cow stresses, drop the ego and be conservative with your starting 5 rep maxes, you clearly didn't listen to his avice and are paying for it now.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

November 2008? What does that have to do with Mar 2009? It's not your all time maxes, but your current 5 rep maxes. You are supposed tot take a week and figure out your CURRENT 5 rep maxes and use them.

If you are starting to stall in only week 3 you clearly set your weight's too high and aren't going to get much out of the program. Mad cow stresses, drop the ego and be conservative with your starting 5 rep maxes, you clearly didn't listen to his avice and are paying for it now.

Yes you're right. I tried to do 110kgx5 today and only got 3 reps out. What should I do now?

A bit of background about my lifting first. I had been doing olympic lifting for the past 9 months or so, but I never put on much weight. I tested my 1RM squat during this period (got 120kg) and I just assumed that this would still be the same, but it hasn't...

I've been missing the last set for squats on heavy Mondays for the past 3 weeks. The only one that I got was week 2 @ 102.5kgx5. An attachment of my "progress" is down below (sorry about the small resolution but I can't upload excel files).

Monday
===========
Squats
Bench
Power Clean
Hypers (2x10 @ 15kg)
Hanging Leg Raise (4x10)

Wednesday
===========
Squats
Mil. Press
High Pulls
Chins (3x5 body weight only)
Abs

Friday
===========
Squats
Bench
Power Clean
Dips (3x5 + 5kg)
Glute/Ham Raise (3x5-8 @ body weight only)

I've also include an image of my weight below. As you can see I've put on about 0.5kg per week. I'm pretty sure there is some muscle there because my legs have grown SLIGHTLY but it's mostly my chest and arms that have grown.

I'm thinking that since the only weight I got was 102.5kgx5 on the squat, I should use that as the 5RM. What about the rest of the lifts though? If I need to restart the WHOLE program, then would it be best to just start all over again with lower weights for everything? (chances are I may have over guessed my 5RM for everything else if I did it with the squat although I haven't failed on anything else).

Thanks for your help.

PS: When is the program meant to get "hard". Shouldn't it start getting tough after week 4? Also, if you're reading the program picture, blue cells are those that have been completed, yellow cells are those that I've missed and green cells are weights that I used to check if I should reset or not. Also my starting 5RM were as follows:

Squats: 107.5kg
Bench: 75kg
Power Clean: 75kg
M. Press: 60kg (although I moved this down to 57.5kg as I did fail 57.5kgx5 in week 3)
High Pulls: 90kg

 

[4CRWZN]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Can anyone explain what the Core Exercise Tonnage and Relavant Tonnage stuff is all about at the bottom of the spread sheet. Also with the set interval its on 12.5 should i leave it at that??

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Yes you're right. I tried to do 110kgx5 today and only got 3 reps out. What should I do now?

A bit of background about my lifting first. I had been doing olympic lifting for the past 9 months or so, but I never put on much weight. I tested my 1RM squat during this period (got 120kg) and I just assumed that this would still be the same, but it hasn't...

I've been missing the last set for squats on heavy Mondays for the past 3 weeks. The only one that I got was week 2 @ 102.5kgx5. An attachment of my "progress" is down below (sorry about the small resolution but I can't upload excel files).

Monday
===========
Squats
Bench
Power Clean
Hypers (2x10 @ 15kg)
Hanging Leg Raise (4x10)

Wednesday
===========
Squats
Mil. Press
High Pulls
Chins (3x5 body weight only)
Abs

Friday
===========
Squats
Bench
Power Clean
Dips (3x5 + 5kg)
Glute/Ham Raise (3x5-8 @ body weight only)

I've also include an image of my weight below. As you can see I've put on about 0.5kg per week. I'm pretty sure there is some muscle there because my legs have grown SLIGHTLY but it's mostly my chest and arms that have grown.

I'm thinking that since the only weight I got was 102.5kgx5 on the squat, I should use that as the 5RM. What about the rest of the lifts though? If I need to restart the WHOLE program, then would it be best to just start all over again with lower weights for everything? (chances are I may have over guessed my 5RM for everything else if I did it with the squat although I haven't failed on anything else).

Thanks for your help.

PS: When is the program meant to get "hard". Shouldn't it start getting tough after week 4? Also, if you're reading the program picture, blue cells are those that have been completed, yellow cells are those that I've missed and green cells are weights that I used to check if I should reset or not. Also my starting 5RM were as follows:

Squats: 107.5kg
Bench: 75kg
Power Clean: 75kg
M. Press: 60kg (although I moved this down to 57.5kg as I did fail 57.5kgx5 in week 3)
High Pulls: 90kg

Once again, I can't stress this enough, READ THE WEBSITE! And loose the ego.

Bill Starr 5x5 - Madcow Intermediate or Linear Version

Read everything from the introduction to the end. Read ti a few times until you understand what you are doing and why. If you had actually read the website instead of just downloading the spread sheet and punching in the numbers, you wouldn't have wasted a month doing it wrong. Instead of starting to make PR's for the next month or so you will have to restart the program and do it properly.

This is where the "loose the ego" part comes in. You are already failing on a lot of your lifts.
If you are going to actually run this program properly you will have to spend this week, take a few days and figure out your real 5 rep max on all your lifts. Find out your true 5 rep maxes, not what you think they should be, or what they were last year. You need to know your maxes as of this week.

You can use this week as a deload, don't do a full work out, just go in, warm up and figure out your 5 rep max. Give your body some rest this week and get ready for the work ahead.

Then next week you are going to start the program all over using the numbers you got form this week. For even better results I would take your current 5 rep maxes, subtract 5lbs and use them for the starting 5 rep max. Have your 5 rep max in week 5 instead of week 4. It is much better to start conservatively and work your way up to your current 5 rep maxes then to rush and fail.

If you do this it should be very easy up until week 5. Once you get to week 6 you'll be making Pr's, but it shouldn't be that hard as the previous weeks you were getting your body ready, building momentum to start making PR's. It should be easy at the start. After a few weeks of making PR's it will start to get hard.

That is all I am going to write as you need to spend time and actually read the program, get some answers for yourself.

Post a journal here, hopefully you'll do better then the last guy I tried to help that couldn't get it through his head not to fu *k with the program.

Good luck.

Spend time, read the program

Also, what is the Glute/Ham Raise? Why are you doing it?

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Can anyone explain what the Core Exercise Tonnage and Relavant Tonnage stuff is all about at the bottom of the spread sheet. Also with the set interval its on 12.5 should i leave it at that??

Why are people so dense?

DON'T FU *K WITH THE PROGRAM!

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Also, what is the Glute/Ham Raise? Why are you doing it?

They're like a cross between hamstring curls and hyperextensions. I used to do them because I got told they'd help with my squat and I subbed them for the curls/tricep extensions

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

They're like a cross between hamstring curls and hyperextensions. I used to do them because I got told they'd help with my squat and I subbed them for the curls/tricep extensions

Squatting 3x per week adding weight to the bar every week will help with your squat.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Squatting 3x per week adding weight to the bar every week will help with your squat.

Well then what should I do with curls/triceps? Just take them out?

EDIT: I know its "Don't fuck with the program" but I don't know how to do tricep extensions/curls properly. Seriously.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Well then what should I do with curls/triceps? Just take them out?

The most important thing is you add weight to the core lifts, the little stuff doesn't matter as much.

The curls and tries are in there on friday just to make the people that used to do 50 sets of curls happy. You can leave them in or don't do them, it's not a big deal. The only thing he says is if the isolation starts to get in the way of your core lifts stop doing them. For now if you want to do the curls and tries go ahead. Just 3 sets of each on friday though.

Try running the program EXACTLY as it is laid out for your first time around. After that you will get to know your body and what works and make small changes on your own. Keep a log, write everything down, so you can go back and figure out what worked for you and what didn't.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

The most important thing is you add weight to the core lifts, the little stuff doesn't matter as much.

The curls and tries are in there on friday just to make the people that used to do 50 sets of curls happy. You can leave them in or don't do them, it's not a big deal. The only thing he says is if the isolation starts to get in the way of your core lifts stop doing them. For now if you want to do the curls and tries go ahead. Just 3 sets of each on friday though.

Try running the program EXACTLY as it is laid out for your first time around. After that you will get to know your body and what works and make small changes on your own. Keep a log, write everything down, so you can go back and figure out what worked for you and what didn't.

Will do.

Also, what happens if my squat's 5RM ends up being 107.5kg? Do I still restart the WHOLE program ?(im doing the intermediate version).

PS: When testing the 5RM what intensity should I be aiming for? Should it be comfortable, medium or really hard to get all the reps out?

Thanks

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Will do.

Also, what happens if my squat's 5RM ends up being 107.5kg? Do I still restart the WHOLE program ?(im doing the intermediate version).

PS: When testing the 5RM what intensity should I be aiming for? Should it be comfortable, medium or really hard to get all the reps out?

Thanks

You said you have already failed to get 107.5 so I doubt it will be 107.5. If you manage to get 107.5 then that is your 5 rep max. Remember, you won't be lifting that again for 5 until week 5, as we are going to start conceivability.

The 5 rep max is your max. The most weight you can get 5 reps with, having good form. Anything above that 5 rep max weight you can not get 5 reps with.

Again, you won't see that weight again till week 5. That will give your body enough time to recover and build up to that weight again. By week 5 you'll be able to get that weight no problem and keep adding weight to the bar the following weeks.

read the site, he talks about micro loading etc.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I would also suggest simply reading this thread as all the questions you are asking have been answered by Madcow himself earlier in the thread.

Start at page 1 and read a little every day. You will have a better understanding of the program.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I would also suggest simply reading this thread as all the questions you are asking have been answered by Madcow himself earlier in the thread.

Start at page 1 and read a little every day. You will have a better understanding of the program.

I did that and found this little gem:

It's easier to work backward than forward. Figure out your 1x5 max, adjust downward around 10% (likely a bit more) for your 5x5 max. Put these weights at week 3. Then work backward and fill in the ramping weeks 1/2 - be conservative and start reasonably. As you go through weeks 1/2 keep watch and make sure your next week's weight and future target is still reasonable - adjust as needed. Assuming week 3 was successful add a "guess"timate to it for week 4 (if you missed the weight remains the same). Week 5 is the same weights as week 4 just the 3x3 rep scheme.

You can do the same exercise for 3x1 and 3x3 for week 8 and back out 6/7. Once you hit week 4/5 you can look ahead and readjust as needed. As you progress through the weeks just keep an eye on the next week and the target record adjusting as needed. When you hit week 8 add an increment to week 9 for all successful lifts.

After completion of the program take your week 4 and 9 successful records and you can place them in the week 3/8 slot (ideally these weeks should be records too so you'd add an increment to your previously successful records). Then do the same exercise of working forward and back but this time take into account how well you tolerated the loading/deloading and where your weights were set. Maybe you should start a bit higher on the ramp, maybe lower. It depends on you.

The most essential factor the first time through is that you start reasonably, have a plan, and be able to adjust it as you go. Maybe your target for week 3 is too light considering your success in week 2. Maybe too heavy and you want to back it down a bit and slide down week 4 also.

Once you've established pertinent records and have an idea of your tolerances, it's smooth sailing and you can really dial this program in and tailor it specifically to you. A log is invaluable.

I'll start reading lol. I'm guessing this still applies to the intermediate version?

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I did that and found this little gem:



I'll start reading lol. I'm guessing this still applies to the intermediate version?

This is for the advanced dual factor version.

Just get your 5 rep maxes and as I suggested, put them in week 5 to give yourself a little more time to ramp up the weight.

The advanced dual factor is a little different where you're building up to one single PR, where the intermediate you are making PR's every week for as long as you can (after week 4 or 5 in your case). You want to be on the intermediate for as long as you can as it is much better to be making PR's every week than every month or longer.

Keep reading. I would suggest reading his website first, and then this thread to see what questions he has answered here.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

This is for the advanced dual factor version.

Just get your 5 rep maxes and as I suggested, put them in week 5 to give yourself a little more time to ramp up the weight.

The advanced dual factor is a little different where you're building up to one single PR, where the intermediate you are making PR's every week for as long as you can (after week 4 or 5 in your case). You want to be on the intermediate for as long as you can as it is much better to be making PR's every week than every month or longer.

Keep reading. I would suggest reading his website first, and then this thread to see what questions he has answered here.

Cool, will do.

I went to the gym and found out the 5RM for two of my lifts so far. This is what I did today:

Squats: Barx5,55x5,67.5x5,80x5,80x5
Mil. Press: Barx5, 40kgx5, 50kgx4, 60kgx5 (5RM), 55kgx5 (Difficulty was 8/10)
High Pulls: 50kgx5, 60kgx5, 75kgx5, 85kgx5 (5RM) (Difficulty was 9/10)
Chins: 3x5 @ B.W
Abs: 2x10 @ B.W

Just on the high pulls, I've been doing them how I've been taught from my olympic coach. Like a deadlift to begin with, then explode at the knees and shrug high. With the 85kg weight I can shrug it just above my belly button. With the 75kg weight I can shrug it to my nipples.

I'll get the squat, power clean and bench press 5RM in two days.

Cheers.

EDIT: Also, I've noticed that when I squat, as I'm coming out of the hole into the "standing" position, the bar bounces on my traps, which bruises them like a mofo and it sometimes makes me lose tightness in my back. Should I come up out of the hole more slowly?

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Cool, will do.

I went to the gym and found out the 5RM for two of my lifts so far. This is what I did today:

Squats: Barx5,55x5,67.5x5,80x5,80x5
Mil. Press: Barx5, 40kgx5, 50kgx4, 60kgx5 (5RM), 55kgx5 (Difficulty was 8/10)
High Pulls: 50kgx5, 60kgx5, 75kgx5, 85kgx5 (5RM) (Difficulty was 9/10)
Chins: 3x5 @ B.W
Abs: 2x10 @ B.W

Just on the high pulls, I've been doing them how I've been taught from my olympic coach. Like a deadlift to begin with, then explode at the knees and shrug high. With the 85kg weight I can shrug it just above my belly button. With the 75kg weight I can shrug it to my nipples.

I'll get the squat, power clean and bench press 5RM in two days.

Cheers.

EDIT: Also, I've noticed that when I squat, as I'm coming out of the hole into the "standing" position, the bar bounces on my traps, which bruises them like a mofo and it sometimes makes me lose tightness in my back. Should I come up out of the hole more slowly?

I am no expert on squatting form (or any form for that matter), but you want that explosiveness as later on as the weight's get heavier it will help. The weight bouncing could be due to the bar you are using. I find that cheaper bars will start to bend easier as the weight goes up, the better made bars tend not to bend as much and not bounce as much at the top of the squat.

 

[ajaygill]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

wouldn't it be more beneficial to do deadlifts more, then just 4sets a week. This board does say that deads are great for size, so why only 4sets in the madcow 5x5

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

wouldn't it be more beneficial to do deadlifts more, then just 4sets a week. This board does say that deads are great for size, so why only 4sets in the madcow 5x5

Why are you so dense?

Do it as it is.

Why do you think you know better then proven strength coaches as Bill Star and mark Rippetoe? How many olympic athletes have you trained in your lifetime?

Don't fuck with the program, why is that so hard for you to understand? I

Do some reading and find the answer to your question on your own. Then maybe you'll understand just how stupid your question is.

 

[ajaygill]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

im asking a simple questions, dont have to jump on everyones case when someone trying to learn or asking a question about the 5x5. i'm here to learn and asking questions is the best way to do that.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

So I went in and tested my 5RM for squats, bench and power clean today. This is what I did:

Squat: Barx5, 60kgx5, 70kgx5, 90kgx5, 100kgx4, 105kgx5 (Difficulty = 9/10)
Bench: Barx5, 40kgx5, 50kgx5, 60kgx5, 70kgx3, 77.5kgx5 (Difficulty = 9/10)
Power Cleans: Barx5, 40x5, 50x5, 60x5, 70x3, 77.5x3 (These were really slow and I had to muscle them up so I just stopped), 70x5 (Difficulty = 8/10)
Dips: 3x8 @ B.W

So my new 5RMs are: (old ones in brackets)

Squat: 105kg (107.5kg)
Bench Press: 77.5kg (75kg)
Power Clean: 70kg (75kg)
Mil. Press: 60kg (57.5kg)
High Pulls: 80kg (90kg)

There's only a 2.5kg difference between my squat 5RMs. I guess this'd mean the difference between 5 and 3 reps.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

im asking a simple questions, dont have to jump on everyones case when someone trying to learn or asking a question about the 5x5. i'm here to learn and asking questions is the best way to do that.

You are not just trying to learn, you ask a question and don't bother to listen to the answer. You are too dense, you think your noob ass knows better then then likes of Madcow, Bill Star & Mark ripetoe.

You are a lost cause and a waste of bandwidth.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

So I went in and tested my 5RM for squats, bench and power clean today. This is what I did:

Squat: Barx5, 60kgx5, 70kgx5, 90kgx5, 100kgx4, 105kgx5 (Difficulty = 9/10)
Bench: Barx5, 40kgx5, 50kgx5, 60kgx5, 70kgx3, 77.5kgx5 (Difficulty = 9/10)
Power Cleans: Barx5, 40x5, 50x5, 60x5, 70x3, 77.5x3 (These were really slow and I had to muscle them up so I just stopped), 70x5 (Difficulty = 8/10)
Dips: 3x8 @ B.W

So my new 5RMs are: (old ones in brackets)

Squat: 105kg (107.5kg)
Bench Press: 77.5kg (75kg)
Power Clean: 70kg (75kg)
Mil. Press: 60kg (57.5kg)
High Pulls: 80kg (90kg)

There's only a 2.5kg difference between my squat 5RMs. I guess this'd mean the difference between 5 and 3 reps.

So now you have your true starting 5 rep maxes. Take those, put them at week 4 (or even better, week 5) and start the program on monday.

I am no expert in powercleans, but they shouldn't be muscled up at all. It should be an explosive movement form the floor so that all you have to do is dip under the bar to catch it. If you are "musceling" them up your form is probably shot and it is too heavy for you.

But maybe someone else here can help with power clean form. I don't do them because I don't feel my form is good enough.

 

[NBAfan#21]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey guyz. I decided that i will start a 5x5 program the monday coming up. But i read that this program isnt for beginners so i will do the Mark Rippetoe 3x5. My question is how do the weight increase work in that progra? Do i increase it by 5lbs every week? Do i keep the same weight for all the sets? What % of my 5 rep max do i start with? Thank you.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hey guyz. I decided that i will start a 5x5 program the monday coming up. But i read that this program isnt for beginners so i will do the Mark Rippetoe 3x5. My question is how do the weight increase work in that progra? Do i increase it by 5lbs every week? Do i keep the same weight for all the sets? What % of my 5 rep max do i start with? Thank you.

Start reading Guide to Novice Barbell Training, aka the Official RIPPETOE-STARTING STRENGTH FAQ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

It's all in there.

You have a few days till monday, should be enough time to really read and understand the program.

A little bit from that link I posted.

Question - What weight should I start with during the first week?

The weight you use is going to be determined by the amount you can do for 5 repetitions with proper execution and technique.

The way the "first day" is explained in Starting Strength, the trainee warms up with the bar, then adds a bit of weight and does a set of 5. Continue to add weight and do sets of 5 until form/technique breaks down. Keep the weight there, correct the technique problems/weak points, and perform 2 more sets with this weight. That is your first "3 sets of 5" workout for that exercise.

However, since we're talking about the internet, where 99% of all novices do NOT use proper technique, it has proven itself to be useful to advise that the trainee drop anywhere from 5-15% off his 5-RM, and start his next workout using that weight.

Yes, this is low. It allows for a certain fudge factor that is present when dealing with a novice's ability to evaluate his own technique performance.

 

[NBAfan#21]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Start reading Guide to Novice Barbell Training, aka the Official RIPPETOE-STARTING STRENGTH FAQ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

It's all in there.

You have a few days till monday, should be enough time to really read and understand the program.

A little bit from that link I posted.

Ok thanks but if we only remove 5-15% of our max and increase the weight by 5-10lbs every workout wouldn't it mean we would stall somewhere around the end of 2nd week. For example: My 5 rep max is probably only around 145lbs for bench press. If i remove 15% of it (22lbs) i would start with 123 lbs on the 1st day. If i increase it by 5 lbs every workout like the said i would already be at 148 lbs on the last day of my 2nd week. Is it supposed to be like that or am i doing something wrong? The smallest plates we have in our gym is 2.5lbs so 5lbs is the minimum increase i can make.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Ok thanks but if we only remove 5-15% of our max and increase the weight by 5-10lbs every workout wouldn't it mean we would stall somewhere around the end of 2nd week. For example: My 5 rep max is probably only around 145lbs for bench press. If i remove 15% of it (22lbs) i would start with 123 lbs on the 1st day. If i increase it by 5 lbs every workout like the said i would already be at 148 lbs on the last day of my 2nd week. Is it supposed to be like that or am i doing something wrong? The smallest plates we have in our gym is 2.5lbs so 5lbs is the minimum increase i can make.

Who said to increase 5lbs every week? This is the beginner program, adding weight to the bar every time you lift, not every week. And it's not a specific 5lbs, do a search here on micro loading. Most people will go to home depot and buy chains that add up to a 2.5 increase total.

 

[NBAfan#21]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Who said to increase 5lbs every week? This is the beginner program, adding weight to the bar every time you lift, not every week. And it's not a specific 5lbs, do a search here on micro loading. Most people will go to home depot and buy chains that add up to a 2.5 increase total.

I didnt say i will increase it every week. I said an increase of 5lbs every workout which would mean an increase of 15lbs on bench press per week. It just sounds like too much for me and looks like it will lead to a very early stalling. I got the 5lbs increase from the site you gave me in the programming section

"Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe, pg. 122, Practical Programming Editorial Copy
for young males that weigh between 150-200 lbs., deadlifts can move up 15-20 lbs. per workout, squats 10-15 lbs., with continued steady progress for 3-4 weeks before slowing down to half that rate. Bench presses, presses, and cleans (edit - and rows) can move up 5-10 lbs. per workout, with progress on these exercises slowing down to 2.5-5 lbs. per workout after only 2-3 weeks. Young women make progress on the squat and the deadlift at about the same rate, adjusted for bodyweight, but much slower on the press, the bench press, cleans and snatches, and assistance exercises."

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I didnt say i will increase it every week. I said an increase of 5lbs every workout which would mean an increase of 15lbs on bench press per week. It just sounds like too much for me and looks like it will lead to a very early stalling. I got the 5lbs increase from the site you gave me in the programming section

"Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe, pg. 122, Practical Programming Editorial Copy
for young males that weigh between 150-200 lbs., deadlifts can move up 15-20 lbs. per workout, squats 10-15 lbs., with continued steady progress for 3-4 weeks before slowing down to half that rate. Bench presses, presses, and cleans (edit - and rows) can move up 5-10 lbs. per workout, with progress on these exercises slowing down to 2.5-5 lbs. per workout after only 2-3 weeks. Young women make progress on the squat and the deadlift at about the same rate, adjusted for bodyweight, but much slower on the press, the bench press, cleans and snatches, and assistance exercises."

If you want you can start a little lower so you reach your current max in week 3 or 4. But keep in mind you are supposed to be making new Pr's with this program. And this program is for beginners, new to lifting. Typically new lifters are able to add weight to the bar like this for 3-4 weeks as he says. If things star to get too much for you, or you fail on a lift you can always make smaller increments.

When you reach a point where it is just too much for you, then you switch to the program that adds weight to the bar every week instead of every workout.

 

[NBAfan#21]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

If you want you can start a little lower so you reach your current max in week 3 or 4. But keep in mind you are supposed to be making new Pr's with this program. And this program is for beginners, new to lifting. Typically new lifters are able to add weight to the bar like this for 3-4 weeks as he says. If things star to get too much for you, or you fail on a lift you can always make smaller increments.

When you reach a point where it is just too much for you, then you switch to the program that adds weight to the bar every week instead of every workout.

Ok thanks man. Thats what i am going to do. I have been doing Stronglifts 5x5 before for 3-4 weeks but nothing else except that. I still consider myself a beginner even though my 1 rep max went from 110 to 160 in that program. But those gains are the reason why i dont think i could keep on gaining strength like that for 3-4 weeks since i have already gained some in the past. Anyway i will do an increase of 5lbs per workout for about 2 weeks and if i cant handle it anymore i will switch to an increase of 2lbs per workout. Do you think i could switch to Madcows 5x5 intermediate after 3-4 weeks of Rippetoe's 3x5?

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Ok thanks man. Thats what i am going to do. I have been doing Stronglifts 5x5 before for 3-4 weeks but nothing else except that. I still consider myself a beginner even though my 1 rep max went from 110 to 160 in that program. But those gains are the reason why i dont think i could keep on gaining strength like that for 3-4 weeks since i have already gained some in the past. Anyway i will do an increase of 5lbs per workout for about 2 weeks and if i cant handle it anymore i will switch to an increase of 2lbs per workout. Do you think i could switch to Madcows 5x5 intermediate after 3-4 weeks of Rippetoe's 3x5?

So you're not a new/ beginner lifter. Adding 50lbsto any lift in only 3-4 weeks is good. Isn't the stronglifts similar, and probably based on the Mark Rippetoe beginner program? It seems you're just repeating the same program.

Give it a try if your lifts don't go up I would say it's time to decrease the volume a little and move to the madcow intermediate 5 x 5. You will continue to make gains with that program.

 

[NBAfan#21]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

So you're not a new/ beginner lifter. Adding 50lbsto any lift in only 3-4 weeks is good. Isn't the stronglifts similar, and probably based on the Mark Rippetoe beginner program? It seems you're just repeating the same program.

Give it a try if your lifts don't go up I would say it's time to decrease the volume a little and move to the madcow intermediate 5 x 5. You will continue to make gains with that program.

Yea its basically the same. lol. The only difference is that i didnt wanted to do the deadlifts back then and i "fucked" with the program meaning i added some arm workouts and such after every workout session. Yeah i know i was stupid to do that. I ended up doing isolation work for my biceps 3 times a week. I still however saw some great gains. lol. Thank god i got more knowledge now and im looking to follow the program to the T now.

 

[ajaygill]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

\\

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I'd like to add some cardio on Tuesdays and Thursdays just to stay healthy and for a change. I'm going to take on HIIT but I don't know how to use it... Is it 1 min jog and then do a 30 sec sprint + 30 sec jog 4 times, repeating it another time every week?

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I'd like to add some cardio on Tuesdays and Thursdays just to stay healthy and for a change. I'm going to take on HIIT but I don't know how to use it... Is it 1 min jog and then do a 30 sec sprint + 30 sec jog 4 times, repeating it another time every week?

Start a new thread or use the search button, we're way off topic now.

 

[NBAfan#21]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Sorry if it has been answered before but i was simply wondering if the deload week is necessary after 4 weeks or do you keep going until you cant complere all reps anymore?

I also checked the 5x5 calculator and it didnt seemed to include a deload since the weight kept increasing weekly

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Sorry if it has been answered before but i was simply wondering if the deload week is necessary after 4 weeks or do you keep going until you cant complere all reps anymore?

I also checked the 5x5 calculator and it didnt seemed to include a deload since the weight kept increasing weekly

It wounds like you are doing the single factor (intermediate)?

If so the first 4 weeks are leading up to your current 5 rep PR's, after that you are making new PR's every week. You do this as long as you can, some people can go 12+ weeks adding weight to the bar making new PR's every lift, every week.

When you get to a point where you are not able to make all your reps, you can either reset the entire program, or just reset one lift. Using your new Pr's, working back up to them in 4 weeks time.

Eventually you will get overloaded and you won't be making Pr's, or you feel you just need to take it easy for a week or so. That is when you will deload for a week doing light stuff, maybe something fun like checking your 1 rep max, but the volume is much less. You may only train 1-2 days that week instead of all 3.

 

[blargle]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Which day would be the best to add power shrugs as an accessory lift? I'm guessing Friday as Monday I do good mornings, and Wednesday I deadlift.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Okay well I've just finished week 4 and I'm coming into week 5 (I took 5 weeks to get to my 5RM) and todays squat felt tough... Haven't missed anything yet, but what happens if I do? Another reset?

PS: I've been doing HIIT on tuesdays and thursdays (10 min jog + 10s/10s sprint/jog x 4)

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Nevermind my previous post. I got 105x5 easily this monday and 107.5x3 wasn't too hard today either. My current weight is 95.8kg (I somehow gained 1.6kg in the past 4 days which kind of freaks me out because all I see is a bigger belly lol).

I guess I've gained some strength on the squat since 105 was easy. Military press is going pretty strong as well but the stand out lift are the dips which have gone up by +15 kg. I don't see much size... yet

PS: thanks for your help djeclipse

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

This is how the 5 x 5 works, the sets of 3 on Friday get you ready for the set of 5 on monday. It is all about programing.

In order to add muscle you are going to have to gain weight. Just make sure its no more than 1-lbs per week and most of that should be muscle. In order to see size gain you will ahve to eat.

You should take some before pics and pics in a few weeks time, it is hard to notice any size gains as you see yourself every day in the mirror.

 

[NBAfan#21]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

In order to add muscle you are going to have to gain weight. Just make sure its no more than 1-lbs per week and most of that should be muscle. In order to see size gain you will ahve to eat.

You should take some before pics and pics in a few weeks time, it is hard to notice any size gains as you see yourself every day in the mirror.

Lol i think i am doing something wrong because i gained like 2-3 lbs in the last 5 days. I tried to eat as much as i could but i will have to slow that down because i still want to keep my 6 pack. lol. I could barely gain 1 lbs in 2 weeks when i was playing basketball almost every day.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Lol i think i am doing something wrong because i gained like 2-3 lbs in the last 5 days. I tried to eat as much as i could but i will have to slow that down because i still want to keep my 6 pack. lol. I could barely gain 1 lbs in 2 weeks when i was playing basketball almost every day.

A lot of it is probably water, but if you stopped the activity and kept eating the same you will gain weight.

It is as simple s calories burned vs calories eaten.

 

[NBAfan#21]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

A lot of it is probably water, but if you stopped the activity and kept eating the same you will gain weight.

It is as simple s calories burned vs calories eaten.

Yeah but since i wasnt really following a diet i am scared that all the weight i gain will be fat

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Yeah but since i wasnt really following a diet i am scared that all the weight i gain will be fat

Some will be, it is pretty much impossible to put on only muscle.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Yeah but since i wasnt really following a diet i am scared that all the weight i gain will be fat

Yeah this is what gets to me sometimes but then I think of what I'd look like when I'm squatting 140kg and bench 110kg.. a bad ass mofo no matter how much fat I've got

 

[stevennevets]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

This is how the 5 x 5 works, the sets of 3 on Friday get you ready for the set of 5 on monday. It is all about programing.

I've been thinking about going to failure on Friday for the 3 and 8 rep sets.

Sense there's a 2 day break coming after that and it's supposed to be preperation why not go all out?

Is this alright to do?

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I've been thinking about going to failure on Friday for the 3 and 8 rep sets.

Sense there's a 2 day break coming after that and it's supposed to be preperation why not go all out?

Is this alright to do?

You can do what ever you want, cable cross overs, seated curls, drop sets, 30 different sets for bies and tries.

But if you want the best results for this program do it AS IS! DON'T FUCK WITH THE PROGRAM. There is no need to go to failure for anything.

 

[stevennevets]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

You can do what ever you want, cable cross overs, seated curls, drop sets, 30 different sets for bies and tries.

But if you want the best results for this program do it AS IS! DON'T FUCK WITH THE PROGRAM. There is no need to go to failure for anything.

I don't think going to failure for a total of 6 sets per week is nearly as ridiculous as 60 sets for arms.
One Monday on my last set for bench I only got 4 reps instead of 5. That same Friday I added 5 pounds and again got 4 reps.

Just saying if 4+ reps is possible on Friday it might be a good idea as the transition will be a lot easier than going from 3 reps on Friday to 5 reps on Monday as written.


Still, I'll save the experimenting and tweaking for next time around.

 

[Noblesse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hello guys, I'm new but I have a few questions... is this program good for someone who's just starting to work out (the intermediate version)?

and also, does this routine hit every part of the body? cause I don't see anything for legs in it

 

[stevennevets]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I don't see anything for legs in it

Squats 3x a week.

 

[Noblesse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Squats 3x a week.

Sorry lol.

I have 1 more question, on the intermediate routine there is a Incline or Military.... does that mean inclined bench press with dumbbells ? i'm confused as to what incline/miltary actually is

 

[stevennevets]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Sorry lol.

I have 1 more question, on the intermediate routine there is a Incline or Military.... does that mean inclined bench press with dumbbells ? i'm confused as to what incline/miltary actually is

It's either incline bench with a barbell or standing shoulder presses with a barbell.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I'm up to week 7 of the program (took 5 weeks to reach my 5RM) and failed the top set for the squat (110kgx5), I only managed to get 2 reps out. The bench press and power clean went ahead as normal.

Does this mean that the squat is periodizing now? Could it be that my squat isn't moving because all of my other lifts are so weak? (I'm benching 81kgx5 and cleaning 74kgx5 and pressing 62kgx5).

I was thinking of maybe progressing with the squat on a fortnightly basis rather than a weekly basis, that way I can still increase all the other lifts while they catch up to the squat. How would I go about doing this? Or should I just reset...

Thanks.

PS: I gained 0.75kg this week so it doesn't look like a nutrition issue.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Well I tried 110kgx5 again this week and only got 4 reps. I'll be trying it again next week and if I get that, I'll be increasing the squat by 1.25% each week rather than 2.5%. Anyone else want to chime in on this?

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Well I tried 110kgx5 again this week and only got 4 reps. I'll be trying it again next week and if I get that, I'll be increasing the squat by 1.25% each week rather than 2.5%. Anyone else want to chime in on this?

What you are doing is fine. keep the other lifts moving according to the calculator for as long as you can. It seems you have reached a point in your squat where you need to make smaller increments, this is where microloading comes in, adding 1-2lbs instead of 5lbs each week.

When you failed on the squat did you get stuck and had to drop it, or did you get the 4th rep and figure you couldn't get any more. Sometimes with the squat it feels like you can't get another rep, but you end up making it.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

When you failed on the squat did you get stuck and had to drop it, or did you get the 4th rep and figure you couldn't get any more. Sometimes with the squat it feels like you can't get another rep, but you end up making it.

I got stuck and had to drop it. On the 4th rep, I lost tightness and couldn't get it back again for the 5th. I got into the hole on the 5th, and I could get up past parallel. Still, I'm only in the second PR week...

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

I got stuck and had to drop it. On the 4th rep, I lost tightness and couldn't get it back again for the 5th. I got into the hole on the 5th, and I could get up past parallel. Still, I'm only in the second PR week...

Ya, go for it again this week and if you don't make it reset the weight and start again.

Is everything else going up still? Eventually you won't be able to make really long PR runs, when that happens you may have to switch to the advanced 5 x 5 where you are making PR's less frequently.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Ya, go for it again this week and if you don't make it reset the weight and start again.

Is everything else going up still? Eventually you won't be able to make really long PR runs, when that happens you may have to switch to the advanced 5 x 5 where you are making PR's less frequently.

Power clean is going up but starting to get a lot harder
High pulls are still going up
Bench is still going up
I missed military press @ 65kg. Only got 3 reps. My previous 5RM was 60kg though, and I don't expect this lift to go past 70kg at the intermediate level.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Power clean is going up but starting to get a lot harder
High pulls are still going up
Bench is still going up
I missed military press @ 65kg. Only got 3 reps. My previous 5RM was 60kg though, and I don't expect this lift to go past 70kg at the intermediate level.

You need to start microloding. 60-65kg is a 11lb increase. That is a 8% increase for that lift, there is no way you could make 8% increases for any length of time. You need to get smaller weight's so you can go up 5lbs at a time, and then 2.5lbs/ week.

I use chains form home depot to make those 2.5lb increases to the bar.

When everything starts to stall, you take a week and do light stuff (deload), maybe try to see what your new 1rep maxes are, but don;t do as much volume, have fun.

Then reset all your weight's back 4 weeks and build back up. You should see new Pr's again after week 4 and continue on.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

You need to start microloding. 60-65kg is a 11lb increase. That is a 8% increase for that lift, there is no way you could make 8% increases for any length of time. You need to get smaller weight's so you can go up 5lbs at a time, and then 2.5lbs/ week.

I use chains form home depot to make those 2.5lb increases to the bar.

When everything starts to stall, you take a week and do light stuff (deload), maybe try to see what your new 1rep maxes are, but don;t do as much volume, have fun.

Then reset all your weight's back 4 weeks and build back up. You should see new Pr's again after week 4 and continue on.

djeclipse, what do you think about sitting in the hole with heavy weight for the squat? I tried this with 100-130kg on Friday (I got 110kgx4) to make sure I wasn't collapsing at the bottom. I sat in the hole for about 5 seconds and then dumped the bar. This "exercise" and dips are the only assistance exercises that I do on fridays.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Alright, I just finished monday's workout and missed 110kgx5 again (for the third time now). I only got 4 reps and couldn't get the 5th up, but I did another 2 reps after a few minutes rest to make sure I was getting enough work. The bench and power clean progressed as expected.
My weight has increased by 1kg since I started missing 110kg so I don't think nutrition is a problem, and I'm pretty sure I'm not being a pussy on the lift because my lips/head feel like exploding after I'm done.

I noticed that madcow mentioned on his website that people who bench alot will progress alot slower because they've been doing it for a long time. I've been squatting for ~2 years now, in the first year I could get 105x3x5 at parallel but now I'm only get 105x1x5 ATG. Should I substitute the back squat for another variation of the squat e.g. the front squat, and then return to it after some time? Should I reset and continue pushing the back squat at 1.25% per week instead of 2.5%? Should I start using advanced programming for the squat (even though lots of other guys seem to be on the linear program with a much heavier squat...)? Or should I keep pushing it at 1.25% from now on?

I'm currently leaning to the first option because this lift is srsly pissing me off now...

 

[oso0960]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Alright, I just finished monday's workout and missed 110kgx5 again (for the third time now). I only got 4 reps and couldn't get the 5th up, but I did another 2 reps after a few minutes rest to make sure I was getting enough work. The bench and power clean progressed as expected.
My weight has increased by 1kg since I started missing 110kg so I don't think nutrition is a problem, and I'm pretty sure I'm not being a pussy on the lift because my lips/head feel like exploding after I'm done.

I noticed that madcow mentioned on his website that people who bench alot will progress alot slower because they've been doing it for a long time. I've been squatting for ~2 years now, in the first year I could get 105x3x5 at parallel but now I'm only get 105x1x5 ATG. Should I substitute the back squat for another variation of the squat e.g. the front squat, and then return to it after some time? Should I reset and continue pushing the back squat at 1.25% per week instead of 2.5%? Should I start using advanced programming for the squat (even though lots of other guys seem to be on the linear program with a much heavier squat...)? Or should I keep pushing it at 1.25% from now on?

I'm currently leaning to the first option because this lift is srsly pissing me off now...

You're not ready for anything more advanced yet. You could start substituting your wednesday workout to front squatting, but make sure you still squat normally mon and fri. Personally, I would say eff the squat since the rest of the lifts are still progressing. Not meaning stop doing them, just keep trying the weight over and over lol until the rest of the exercises stall. Then I would do what Djeclipse said: deload for a week, then drop back 4 weeks and ramp back up.

Although I think Bill Starr suggested that if only one lift gives you problems, just drop that exercise back 4 weeks and try it again while the rest of your lifts continue progressing.

I know the question wasn't directed toward me, but are you relaxing when you're in the hole of the squat? IF you are that could probably be very dangerous to your lower back. Plus I've never heard of anybody doing negatives on squats.

Another thing, maybe try learning how to box squat? Louie simmons (a well known powerlifter) advocates teaching the box squat BEFORE the full squat. Just a suggestion.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

You're not ready for anything more advanced yet. You could start substituting your wednesday workout to front squatting, but make sure you still squat normally mon and fri. Personally, I would say eff the squat since the rest of the lifts are still progressing. Not meaning stop doing them, just keep trying the weight over and over lol until the rest of the exercises stall. Then I would do what Djeclipse said: deload for a week, then drop back 4 weeks and ramp back up.

Although I think Bill Starr suggested that if only one lift gives you problems, just drop that exercise back 4 weeks and try it again while the rest of your lifts continue progressing.

I know the question wasn't directed toward me, but are you relaxing when you're in the hole of the squat? IF you are that could probably be very dangerous to your lower back. Plus I've never heard of anybody doing negatives on squats.

Another thing, maybe try learning how to box squat? Louie simmons (a well known powerlifter) advocates teaching the box squat BEFORE the full squat. Just a suggestion.

I was sitting in the hole with heavy weight to make sure I wasn't relaxing. I got someone to check and my chest was up the whole time while I was sitting on my heels so I'm pretty sure my back was flat.

I'm going to reset the squat back to the first PR week (from 110kg to 107.5kg) and work my way back to 110kg with 2.5% increases (a 1 week reset).

I'll keep you guys posted.

PS: I'll try and get a video of my squatting technique for tomorrow.

 

[NOLOGY77]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Hello everyone,. How can we put some clean and jerk repetitions in the program? shall i replace a current exercise with this one every now and then?

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Sorry, I haven't been around lately. I lost interest in this board for a while as I am getting sick of having my posts deleted and getting "warnings" because I speak out when someone is preaching improper form, trying it back it up with BS medical journal claims. I don't care who you are, how long you've been here or how many posts you have, if you are going to preach wrong information about improper form I am going to call you on it.

Ironically I don't see any of those mods that delete my posts and give BS warnings in here helping anyone out.

Anyway, are you doing any other activity besides the 5 x 5? Playing any sports etc? You can substitute the front squat for the light squat on Wed as you are using less weight on the front squat. If you have failed on the squat it is time to reset the weight (just for the squat), use the weight you were using 4-5 weeks ago and work your way back up. Eventually you will reach a point where you aren't able to complete the reps for most of the lifts, at that time you take an easy week, have fun and then reset everything 4 weeks.

As for sitting in the hole with the weight on your back for any length of time, I wouldn't recommend it. You may think your form is ok, but as you're sitting there you will start to fatigue and your form will break down.

As for clean and jerk, you could substitute that on wed for the deads. Typically when I need a rest form deads, or a change I will substitute cleans for deads. I've never done the clean and jerk as i am doing over heat press on wed as well.

 

[lolwut]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Anyway, are you doing any other activity besides the 5 x 5? Playing any sports etc?

Yes, I've been doing some HIIT/sprints on tuesdays and thursdays (although I've stopped cardio doing cardio since this week) and I have a job on saturday that requires me to walk around from 9-4pm.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Yes, I've been doing some HIIT/sprints on tuesdays and thursdays (although I've stopped cardio doing cardio since this week) and I have a job on saturday that requires me to walk around from 9-4pm.

The sprints could be getting ithe way of your squat progressing. The legs never have a time to actually rest if you're squatting monday, wed, friday and doing HIT tuesday and thursday.

On the wed light squat how are your legs? Do they burn as if they are fatigued, or is the squat still feel light? If you continue to do the Running on tuesday and thursday you can try front squat on wed, or may want to drop the squat on Wed all together to give those legs some recovery time.

You know your body, you know how it feels.

Either way, it is time reset your squat back 4 weeks and work your way back up. With enough recovery time your squat should go up again.

 

[SouthernLord]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

The sprints could be getting ithe way of your squat progressing. The legs never have a time to actually rest if you're squatting monday, wed, friday and doing HIT tuesday and thursday.

On the wed light squat how are your legs? Do they burn as if they are fatigued, or is the squat still feel light? If you continue to do the Running on tuesday and thursday you can try front squat on wed, or may want to drop the squat on Wed all together to give those legs some recovery time.

You know your body, you know how it feels.

Either way, it is time reset your squat back 4 weeks and work your way back up. With enough recovery time your squat should go up again.

Good advice.

All out HIIT sprints kill my legs and CNS. I could not imagine doing them along with this program. I know many athletes have with success, but I guess this all boils down to your goals. Personally I would rather watch my squat progress, but I also do not need HIIT conditioning for any sport.

 

[djeclipse]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Good advice.

All out HIIT sprints kill my legs and CNS. I could not imagine doing them along with this program. I know many athletes have with success, but I guess this all boils down to your goals. Personally I would rather watch my squat progress, but I also do not need HIIT conditioning for any sport.

Ya, I found myself this summer on 3 soccer teams, sometimes playing 4 games a week (i'd go to the gym at lunch and play a game that night).

Playing soccer is somewhat like HIIT running as you are always sprinting, jogging, spring, jog, sprint walk etc. My legs never had a chance to recover and even wednesdays light squat had my legs on fire and the weight seemed heavy (which it should not feel heavy on wed). I had to drop the squat wed and my squats started going up again.

 

[SouthernLord]

Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n

Ya, I found myself this summer on 3 soccer teams, sometimes playing 4 games a week (i'd go to the gym at lunch and play a game that night).

Playing soccer is somewhat like HIIT running as you are always sprinting, jogging, spring, jog, sprint walk etc. My legs never had a chance to recover and even wednesdays light squat had my legs on fire and the weight seemed heavy (which it should not feel heavy on wed). I had to drop the squat wed and my squats started going up again.

That's a lot of soccer