Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below armyranger516
New member
Morning
After Workout
After Workout
Best time to do Cardio?
- Thread starter armyranger516
- Start date
Vinchezo79
New member
Yes sir. Morning bro. Fasted cardio. Burns the fat right off. You feel your stomach burning when your done. Feels great!
Jen10
New member
Why never fasted?
Hit_the_weightS
New member
I have a very physical job.
Should I still be doing cardio as well as lifting?
Just curious
Should I still be doing cardio as well as lifting?
Just curious
Faststangxxx
New member
Fasted morning cardio (not intense) will ramp up your metabolism all day. I do at least 40 min 3-4 days a week. I also have a pretty physical job with rest periods. I just view it as extra cardio through out the day...
---------------------------------
It's not roid rage, I just don't like you...
Bustin' my ass so I can save yours...
---------------------------------
It's not roid rage, I just don't like you...
Bustin' my ass so I can save yours...
Sorry I missed this but I think that if you are fasted and do intense cardio you will burn muscle.
if it is nice and easy cardio all the fuel will come from sugar and fat.. if it is intense muscle will be burned.
Irrelevant. It's a myth that you burn fat when doing cardio on an empty stomach. You still have glucose in your system unless you haven't eaten for days -- in which case you'd be burning more muscle tissue than fat.
Cali72
New member
Have to agree with Judo on this one.
Keeping your heart rate at bout 100-120 should ensure more muscle preservation than doing high intensity cardio on an empty stomach.
I do about 45-50 minutes cardio 5 times a week first thing on an empty stomach when I wanna drop body fat and it works big time.
You're dropping weight because you're burning a lot of calories and eating less. It has nothing to do with the time of day. There is also ZERO evidence that a particular heart rate burns more calories other than you;re expending more energy. That can be done with extended effort, or shorter high intensity effort. In other words, if you run a mile in 10 minutes or walk a mile in 30 minutes -- you still travelled one mile and the amount of calories burned is about the same.
Faststangxxx
New member
I clearly said not intense...I am well aware that intense cardio in the morning will burn muscle.
---------------------------------
It's not roid rage, I just don't like you...
Bustin' my ass so I can save yours...
---------------------------------
It's not roid rage, I just don't like you...
Bustin' my ass so I can save yours...
Cali72
New member
Keeping your heart rate at not >120 ensures less muscle burning when doing morning fasted cardio.
Well I think so.
Obviously you will burn muscle but what we are really trying to find here is an environment that is best for dropping bodyfat and minimizing muscle loss.
Personally I am a big fan of low intensity high duration morning fasted cardio.
Exactly.. To lose weight the formula is simple.. Energy in < energy out..
from a 100% math basis you might be right.. im not aware of studies that show it but there are other things that I think come into effect when you train in the morning.
I learned all of this as an athlete years ago but here are a few things:
when you wake up at 5am to run.. you will not be up until 2am wasting time
you will not be up at midnight snacking away
you will not snack during the day because you are focused on weight loss our your fitness all day
you can not make up a workout that you overslept for
a lot of it MIGHT be mental and thats fine with me... A ton of pro athletes or future pro athletes are up at 5am to get their morning run in or do their roadwork or get their first training session in
if you want to get 3 workouts in a day say cardio, weights, skill training then 6am is the best time for cardio.. noonish is best for weights and night time is the best for skill.. for me and my guys or my type of athletes
I know plenty of athletes doing 4 workouts a day.. basically 1 cardio, 1 weights/strength & conditioning and 2 skill workouts.. if you dont do the cardio in the am it will be hard to do all that..
Now I know this is primarily a bodybuilding board
so some of this seems useless or WRONG but its not.. its just different and hopefully there are some bits and pieces we can all learn from each other.
I learned all of this as an athlete years ago but here are a few things:
when you wake up at 5am to run.. you will not be up until 2am wasting time
you will not be up at midnight snacking away
you will not snack during the day because you are focused on weight loss our your fitness all day
you can not make up a workout that you overslept for
a lot of it MIGHT be mental and thats fine with me... A ton of pro athletes or future pro athletes are up at 5am to get their morning run in or do their roadwork or get their first training session in
if you want to get 3 workouts in a day say cardio, weights, skill training then 6am is the best time for cardio.. noonish is best for weights and night time is the best for skill.. for me and my guys or my type of athletes
I know plenty of athletes doing 4 workouts a day.. basically 1 cardio, 1 weights/strength & conditioning and 2 skill workouts.. if you dont do the cardio in the am it will be hard to do all that..
Now I know this is primarily a bodybuilding board
so some of this seems useless or WRONG but its not.. its just different and hopefully there are some bits and pieces we can all learn from each other.but what is the best strategy to maximize the results????
Eat less and move more.
Sustained!!!!!!
I do it in the morning - Kick start of the day and you have it done...
johnnyboy3689282
New member
Id take a serving of bcaas and drink a glass of water and do 40 minutes early when you wake up... Empty stomach and the bcaas will help your body combat the catabolic effect your muscles will feel after not having proper fuel of nutrients and minerals.... Also after you are done with your lifting..NEVER BEFORE..... Common mistake... You always want to burn fat when your body is in fat burning mode. I would also sugest that if you cardio after workout, you should sip on BCAAS throughout the workout as well as add another serving before, with some water...
Good luck
Johnny
Good luck
Johnny
Along the bcaa route I find taking a half scoop of whey really helps to take the body out of catbolism and jump starts your metabolism. Doing cardio then will still give you the benefits of the fasted cardio but you will take less energy from muscle and more from fat.
Sent from my iPhone using EliteFitness app
Sent from my iPhone using EliteFitness app
cooltrouble
New member
Son
The best time to do cardio is WHEN YOU HAVE THE FRAKING TIME. PERIOD.
You wont belive the amount of chicks that pass out, I mean flat out fucked up and laying on the floor in the gym, after dropping on thier asses on the treadmill from doing a lot of crazy shit. When we bring them back to themselves, 8 out of 10 didnt have breakfast or anything to eat cuz these jackasses want to burn fat so they work out on an EMPTY STOMACH. OH I heard it from my girl friend to do that cuz it worked for her.
Some of the fellas are just the same also, wanting the new metro sexual look and all that bullshit wanting to fit into skinny jackets. Gimme a fucking break.
If the morning works for you, then cool , son! By the time you get to the gym at the end of the day, after work, all you need to do is carb up a bit to get thru your cardio or workout. NEVER, and I MEAN NEVER, do shit on completly EMPTY STOMACH. Yeay yeahyeah all the studies out their say do this and do that, with all the fancy numbers to back up university this , university that!
Find out what works for your body and rock with it. Find a fat burner that work and go with it. Find a carb meal that gives you good energy and go for it. It could be as simple as a fucking granola bar and half an apple.
Do you bro. Just be safe about it.
CT
The best time to do cardio is WHEN YOU HAVE THE FRAKING TIME. PERIOD.
You wont belive the amount of chicks that pass out, I mean flat out fucked up and laying on the floor in the gym, after dropping on thier asses on the treadmill from doing a lot of crazy shit. When we bring them back to themselves, 8 out of 10 didnt have breakfast or anything to eat cuz these jackasses want to burn fat so they work out on an EMPTY STOMACH. OH I heard it from my girl friend to do that cuz it worked for her.
Some of the fellas are just the same also, wanting the new metro sexual look and all that bullshit wanting to fit into skinny jackets. Gimme a fucking break.
If the morning works for you, then cool , son! By the time you get to the gym at the end of the day, after work, all you need to do is carb up a bit to get thru your cardio or workout. NEVER, and I MEAN NEVER, do shit on completly EMPTY STOMACH. Yeay yeahyeah all the studies out their say do this and do that, with all the fancy numbers to back up university this , university that!
Find out what works for your body and rock with it. Find a fat burner that work and go with it. Find a carb meal that gives you good energy and go for it. It could be as simple as a fucking granola bar and half an apple.
Do you bro. Just be safe about it.
CT
1 sometimes you gotta make time.. squeeze out 25hrs in a 24 hr day.. again there is a psychological factor to getting up and running. its not just math or cals in vs cals out.. the mental factor can make a huge difference.. a great coach of mine once said how productive was the last hour you were awake last night vs what I want you to do from 530am-630m.. is it easy.. nope.. but is it worth it.. yup
2 never do anything on an empty stomach.... no reason to state that.. none.. if it doesnt work for you thats fine
2 never do anything on an empty stomach.... no reason to state that.. none.. if it doesnt work for you thats fine
Generally speaking I agree BUT high intensity work causes the bodies metabolism to be elevated for an additional 12-24 causes causing an added fat burning effect that has been documented in many studies.
red crayon
New member
Based on my experience I know that everyone is different. So what works great for me might not work for you. With that said If I wanted to do my cardio at the best time I would keep a log book and include my diet, body weight, Cardio session information (Time of day and length also record when last weight training session was). This is a trial and error process but you will be able to determine the best time.
I do my cardio sessions in the morning on an empty stomach. I try to sweat and stay sweating untill its over. I also drink as much water as I can during cardio. I dont do any cardio near a weight training session. I believe that only invites your body to go into a catabolic state.
I do my cardio sessions in the morning on an empty stomach. I try to sweat and stay sweating untill its over. I also drink as much water as I can during cardio. I dont do any cardio near a weight training session. I believe that only invites your body to go into a catabolic state.
ConanX
Banned
I lost the most fat by doing morning cardio fasted. BUT I really don't have much time for that and I wake up so damn hungry.
I find that the easiest time for me is right after weight training. My heart rate is already elevated so I can just jump on the bike.
ECA stack makes a big difference to me in my cardio weight loss as well.
If you are on AAS, you probably don't have to worry about losing muscle from cardio. Just get the cardio in and you're good.
I find that the easiest time for me is right after weight training. My heart rate is already elevated so I can just jump on the bike.
ECA stack makes a big difference to me in my cardio weight loss as well.
If you are on AAS, you probably don't have to worry about losing muscle from cardio. Just get the cardio in and you're good.
johnnyboy3689282
New member
Not even with the use of BCAAs? Pretty sure they make you body not catabolic... In fact leaving your body anabolic. And if there is no energy supply added and your body is loaded with bcaas, this should in fact make your go to the fat source and absorb the water for energy... So doing cardio with the use of BCAAs will help make your body not eat your muscle but fuel from another source... pretty sure that was basic anatomy, but if you can refere a study or some logs that state other wise im sold on it... Help me during pre contest cutting.... body was 100 % more fueled... i do believe in the placebo effect however... but just interested... because if it doesnt matter, id save the supplement... Thanks bro
Johnny
Johnny
if you are on or above 10% bf% and you do mild intensity cardio with or without bcaas or a shake ill bet big money that you will not notice any difference in muscle loss over time.
I love bcaas I take in a lot of them but its not gonna make much if any difference for most people on an am jog. You wake up hungry but there is plenty of sugar in your liver and muscles to burn. the body does not want to burn up muscle. thats a survival instinct. If you are above 10% you have plenty of sugar and fat to burn. IF you are not running from a wolf and keep your intensity mild your body has plenty of time to take fat and turn it into energy. Imo save the bcaas for another time.
I love bcaas I take in a lot of them but its not gonna make much if any difference for most people on an am jog. You wake up hungry but there is plenty of sugar in your liver and muscles to burn. the body does not want to burn up muscle. thats a survival instinct. If you are above 10% you have plenty of sugar and fat to burn. IF you are not running from a wolf and keep your intensity mild your body has plenty of time to take fat and turn it into energy. Imo save the bcaas for another time.
Even though morning cardio has been embraced by bodybuilders as a "tried and true" fat loss technique, there is definitely not a unanimous agreement about its effectiveness, especially in the scientific community. Most competitive bodybuilders are die-hard advocates of doing cardio first thing in the morning before eating their first meal. They believe it will cause them to mobilize more stored body fat and increase their metabolic rate all day long.
There’s quite a bit of scientific literature supporting the a.m. fasted cardio theory, but generally, the exercise physiologists and scientists tend not to buy it. They subscribe to the energy balance hypothesis, which states; as long as you burn more calories than you consume in each 24 hour period, then the time of day you burn them doesn’t matter, nor does whether you burn them from fat or carbohydrate.
If you have even the most rudimentary understanding of human physiology and physics, you have to concede that the timing of your cardio is not the most important factor in fat loss. When you do your cardio won’t make or break you. Simply doing it whenever it’s convenient and following a mildly calorie restricted diet is what’s important. However, there’s a very strong case for doing fasted a.m. cardio and if you want to gain every legal and ethical advantage possible in your quest to get leaner then it’s definitely something you should take a closer look at and experiment with.
The argument in favor of fasted early morning cardio goes something like this:
1. When you wake up in the morning after an overnight 8-12 hour fast, your body’s stores of glycogen are somewhat depleted (especially if you are on a reduced carb diet and you cut back on carbs late in the day). Doing cardio in this state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.
2. Eating causes a release of insulin. Insulin interferes with the mobilization of body fat. Less insulin is present in the morning; therefore, more body fat is burned when cardio is done in the morning.
3. There is less carbohydrate (glucose) "floating around" in the bloodstream when you wake up after an overnight fast. With less glucose available, you will burn more fat.
4. If you eat immediately before a workout, you have to burn off what you just ate first before tapping into stored body fat (and insulin is elevated after a meal.)
5. When you do cardio in the morning, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you burn calories during the session so you definitely benefit from it, but you fail to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your metabolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to sleep.
Research supports this theory. A study performed at Kansas State University and published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise showed that a kilogram of fat is burned sooner when exercise is done in the fasted state in the morning than when it’s done later in the day. The researchers measured respiratory gas exchange, caloric expenditure and carbohydrate and fatty acid metabolism, and found that the amount of fat burned during aerobic exercise amounted to 67% of the total energy expenditure in the morning after a 12 hour fast. This is substantially higher than the 50% expenditure achieved when the same exercise was done later in the day or after eating.
A similar study from The Journal of Applied Physiology looked at the effects of aerobic exercise on lipid oxidation in fed versus fasted states. The researchers concluded, "our results support the hypothesis that endurance training enhances lipid oxidation in men after a 12 hour overnight fast." Yet another scientific paper, Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss," reports, "The ability of exercise to selectively promote fat oxidation should be optimized if exercise is done during morning fasted metabolism."
Despite the fact that increased fat burning from morning cardio seems logical and is backed by research, the majority of scientists and exercise physiologists vehemently deny its effectiveness. They are quick to point out that you can find a study to support almost any theory you want to advocate. Interestingly though, even the most dyed in the wool academics agree that you’ll burn more fat in the fuel mix as compared to sugars. The real controversy lies in whether this fact has any impact on overall fat loss in the long run.
Exercise Physiologist Greg Landry, MS, author of "The Metabolism System for Weight Loss and Fitness," explains, "I agree that you burn a fuel mix that is a little higher in fat if you’re exercising on an empty stomach. However, I think the real question is, does that matter? I believe we have a ‘pool’ of calories stored in different forms in the body (fat, glycogen, etc.), so ‘burned’ calories all come from the same pool. Thus, it really doesn’t matter that the fuel mix has a little more fat in it at a given time. If it’s pulling from fat stores at that time, then it’s pulling less from glycogen stores and thus future consumed calories will be a little more likely to be stored as fat because glycogen stores are a little fuller. So it’s all a wash."
Lyle McDonald, an expert on bodybuilding nutrition and author of "The Ketogenic Diet," agrees. He argues that the body will compensate later in the day and is simply "too smart" for strategies like this to make a substantial difference in results: "All that research says is that you burn a greater proportion of fat this way, which I agree with 100%," says Lyle. "The majority of research shows that as far as real world fat loss goes, it doesn’t really matter what you burn. Rather, 24-hour calorie balance is what matters. Because if you burn glucose during exercise, you tend to burn more fat the rest of the day. If you burn fat during exercise, you burn more glucose during the day. The end result is identical. If that weren’t the case, then athletes like sprinters who never ‘burn fat’ during exercise wouldn’t be shredded. Basically, they burn so many calories that they remain in balance and don’t gain any fat. So, while morning cardio probably provides some psychological benefits to bodybuilders who are programmed to do it that way, I can’t say that I think it will result in greater ‘real world’ fat loss, which is what matters."
When it comes to "real world" fat loss, few people have more experience than Chris Aceto. A successful bodybuilder and nutritionist to some of the top pro bodybuilders in the world, Aceto is a firm believer in morning cardio. He unequivocally states, "The fastest way to tap stored body fat is to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach."
Aceto believes that looking at calories only in terms of energy in vs. energy out is "limited thinking." He asserts that there are more factors involved in "real world" results than just energy balance. This all comes back to the old argument, are all calories created equal? "Absolutely not!" Aceto declares. "A calorie is not just a calorie and exercise physiologists ‘freak out’ when they hear this."
"These guys are working from the assumption that it’s just a matter of calories in vs. calories out, period," Chris continued. "With that line of reasoning, they’d be forced to say that if I consume nothing but candy bars and Coca-Cola, and take in 100 calories less than maintenance, I’d lose weight. We know it’s not that simple. You also have to account for ratios of carbs, protein, and fat. Then there’s meal frequency too: From real world results we know you put down more muscle mass from 5 or 6 meals a day than from 3 meals a day. There are more things involved than just calories."
Whether or not morning cardio in the fasted state increases "real world" fat loss is still the subject of controversy, but there are many other reasons you might want to consider making it a part of your daily routine. Landry, despite his doubts about whether the fuel source matters, admits, "If I had to pick a single factor I thought was most important in a successful weight loss program, it would have to be to exercise first thing in the morning."
Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning (whether fasted or not):
1.It makes you feel great all day by releasing mood-enhancing endorphins.
2. It "energizes" you and "wakes you up."
3. It may help regulate your appetite for the rest of the day.
4. Your body’s circadian rhythm adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to wake up at the same time every day.
5. You’ll be less likely to "blow off" your workout when it’s out of the way early (like when you’re exhausted after work or when friends ask you to join them at the pub for happy hour).
6. You can always "make time" for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.
7. It increases your metabolic rate for hours after the session is over.
Of all these benefits, the post-exercise increase in your metabolic rate is one of the most talked about. Scientists call this "afterburn" effect the "excess post-exercise oxygen consumption" or EPOC for short.
Looking only at the number of calories and the type of calories burned during the session doesn’t give you the full picture. You also need to look at the increased number of calories you continue to burn after the workout is over. That’s right - work out in the morning and you burn calories all day long. Imagine burning extra fat as you sit at your desk at work! That’s the good news. The bad news is, the degree of EPOC is not as great as most people think. It’s a myth that your metabolism stays elevated for 24 hours after a regular aerobic workout. That only happens after extremely intense and/or prolonged exercise such as running a marathon.
After low intensity exercise, the magnitude of the EPOC is so small that its impact on fat loss is negligible. Somewhere between 9 and 30 extra calories are burned after exercise at an intensity of less than 60-65% of maximal heart rate. In other words, a casual stroll on the treadmill burns some calories and provides other health benefits, but will do next to nothing to increase your metabolism after the workout is over via the EPOC mechanism.
EPOC increase with the intensity (and duration) of the exercise. According to Wilmore and Costill in "Physiology of Sport and Exercise," the EPOC after moderate exercise (75-80%) will amount to approximately .25 kcal/min or 15 kcal/hour. This would provide an additional expenditure of 75 kcal that would not normally be calculated in the total energy expended for that activity. An extra 75 calories is definitely nothing Earth shattering. However, it does add up over time. In a year that would mean (in theory) you would burn an extra 5.2 lbs of fat from the additional calories expended after the workout.
One way to get a significant post exercise "afterburn" is by using more intense cardio workouts such as high intensity interval training (HIIT). HIIT is done by alternating brief periods of high intensity work (85% or more) with brief periods of lower intensity work. Studies on the effects of HIIT have demonstrated a much higher EPOC, which can add substantially to the day’s calorie expenditure. In one study, scientists from the University of Alabama compared the effects of two exercise protocols on 24-hour energy expenditure. The first group cycled for 60 minutes at a moderate intensity. The second group performed HIIT, cycling for two minutes at high intensity followed by two minutes at a low intensity. The group that performed the HIIT burned 160 more calories in 24 hours than the low intensity group. That means the HIIT group would burn an extra 11.8 pounds of fat in one year if they did HIIT five days a week instead of conventional training.
Ironically, weight training has a much higher magnitude of EPOC than aerobic training. Studies have shown increases in metabolic rate of as much as 4-7% over a 24-hour period from resistance training. Yes - that means bodybuilding does burn fat – albeit through an indirect mechanism. For someone with an expenditure of 2500 calories per day, that could add up to 100 - 175 extra calories burned after your weight training workout is over. The lesson is simple: Anyone interested in losing body fat who is not lifting weights should first take up a regimen of bodybuilding. Worrying about details such as whether to do cardio fasted or fed is pointless if you're not even taking advantage of the major body-composition improving benefits of weight training!
A common concern about doing cardio in the fasted state, especially if it’s done with high intensity, is the possibility of losing muscle. After an overnight fast, glycogen, blood glucose and insulin are all low. As we’ve already concluded, this is an optimum environment for burning fat. Unfortunately, it may also be an optimum environment for burning muscle because carbohydrate fuel sources are low and levels of the catabolic stress hormone cortisol are high. It sounds like morning cardio might be a double-edged sword, but there are ways to avert muscle loss.
All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you don’t overdo it, you shouldn’t worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and re-building muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and it’s a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.
How do you build up more muscle than you break down? First, avoid excessive cardio. Aceto suggests limiting your cardio on an empty stomach to 30 minutes, and then it would be "highly unlikely that amino acids will be burned as fuel." He also mentions that "a strong cup of coffee should facilitate a shifting to burn more fat and less glycogen. If you can spare glycogen, you’ll ultimately spare protein too."
Second, give your body the proper nutritional support. Losing muscle probably has more to do with inadequate nutrition than with excessive aerobics. Provide yourself with the proper nutritional support for the rest of the day, including adequate meal frequency, protein, carbohydrates and total calories, and it’s not as likely that there will be a net loss of muscle tissue over each 24-hour period.
Third, keep training with relatively heavy weights, even during a fat loss phase. Using light weights and higher reps thinking that it will help you get more "cut" is a mistake: What put the muscle on in the first place is likely to help you keep it there.
Still petrified of losing your hard-earned muscle, but you’d like to take advantage of the fat-burning and metabolism-boosting effects of morning cardio? One strategy many bodybuilders use is to drink a protein shake or eat a protein only meal 30 minutes or so prior to the morning session. The protein without the carbs will minimize the insulin response and allow you to mobilize fat while providing amino acids to prevent muscle breakdown.
In conclusion, it seems that A.M. cardio has enough indisputable benefits to motivate most people to set their alarms early. But let’s talk bottom line results here: Does doing morning cardio in a fasted state really result in more "real world fat loss" than cardio performed at other times of the day or after eating? I have to believe it does. Common sense, research and experience from 28 bodybuilding competions all tell me so. Nevertheless, this will obviously continue to be an area of much debate, and clearly, more research is needed. In the meantime, while the scientists are busy in their labs measuring respiratory exchange ratios, caloric expenditures and rates of substrate utilization, I’m going to keep waking up at 6:00 AM every morning to get on my Stairmaster for some (pretty intense) cardio.
References
1. Aceto, Chris. Everything you need to know about fat loss. Club Creavalle, Inc. (1997).
2. Bahr, R. Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption – Magnitude, Mechanisms and Practical Implications. Acta Physiol Scand. Suppl. (1992) 605. 1-70.
3. Bergman, BC, Brooks, GA. Respiratory gas-exchange ratios during graded exercise in fed and fasted trained and untrained men. Journal of Applied Physiology. (1999) 86: 2.
4. Brehm, B.A., and Gutin, B. Recovery energy expenditure for steady state exercise in runners and non-exercisers. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. (1986) 18: 205,
5. Brybner, BW. The effects of exercise intensity on body composition, weight loss, and dietary composition in women. Journal of American College of Nutrition, (1997) 16: 68-73
6. Landry, Greg. The Metabolism System for Weight Loss. Greg Landry. (2000).
7. Maehlum, S., etc al. Magnitude and duration of post exercise oxygen consumption in healthy young subjects. Metabolism (1986) 35 (5): 425-429.
8. McCarty, MF. Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss. Medical Hypothesis. (1995) 44: 325-330
9. McDonald, Lyle. The Ketogenic Diet. Morris Publishing, (1998).
10. Melby, C. et al. Effect of acute resistance exercise on post exercise energy expenditure and resting metabolic rate. J Applied Physiology, (1993). 75: 1847-1853
11. Wilmore, Jack, Costill, David. Physiology of Sport and Exercise. (1999) 2nd ed. Human Kinetics
12. Tremblay, A, et al, Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism (1994) 43: 818-818
13. Treuth, M.S., Hunter, G.R., & Williams, M. Effects of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and substrate oxidation. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise. (1996) 28, 1138-1143
14.Wilcox, Harford & Wedel. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, (1985) 17:2
There’s quite a bit of scientific literature supporting the a.m. fasted cardio theory, but generally, the exercise physiologists and scientists tend not to buy it. They subscribe to the energy balance hypothesis, which states; as long as you burn more calories than you consume in each 24 hour period, then the time of day you burn them doesn’t matter, nor does whether you burn them from fat or carbohydrate.
If you have even the most rudimentary understanding of human physiology and physics, you have to concede that the timing of your cardio is not the most important factor in fat loss. When you do your cardio won’t make or break you. Simply doing it whenever it’s convenient and following a mildly calorie restricted diet is what’s important. However, there’s a very strong case for doing fasted a.m. cardio and if you want to gain every legal and ethical advantage possible in your quest to get leaner then it’s definitely something you should take a closer look at and experiment with.
The argument in favor of fasted early morning cardio goes something like this:
1. When you wake up in the morning after an overnight 8-12 hour fast, your body’s stores of glycogen are somewhat depleted (especially if you are on a reduced carb diet and you cut back on carbs late in the day). Doing cardio in this state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.
2. Eating causes a release of insulin. Insulin interferes with the mobilization of body fat. Less insulin is present in the morning; therefore, more body fat is burned when cardio is done in the morning.
3. There is less carbohydrate (glucose) "floating around" in the bloodstream when you wake up after an overnight fast. With less glucose available, you will burn more fat.
4. If you eat immediately before a workout, you have to burn off what you just ate first before tapping into stored body fat (and insulin is elevated after a meal.)
5. When you do cardio in the morning, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you burn calories during the session so you definitely benefit from it, but you fail to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your metabolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to sleep.
Research supports this theory. A study performed at Kansas State University and published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise showed that a kilogram of fat is burned sooner when exercise is done in the fasted state in the morning than when it’s done later in the day. The researchers measured respiratory gas exchange, caloric expenditure and carbohydrate and fatty acid metabolism, and found that the amount of fat burned during aerobic exercise amounted to 67% of the total energy expenditure in the morning after a 12 hour fast. This is substantially higher than the 50% expenditure achieved when the same exercise was done later in the day or after eating.
A similar study from The Journal of Applied Physiology looked at the effects of aerobic exercise on lipid oxidation in fed versus fasted states. The researchers concluded, "our results support the hypothesis that endurance training enhances lipid oxidation in men after a 12 hour overnight fast." Yet another scientific paper, Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss," reports, "The ability of exercise to selectively promote fat oxidation should be optimized if exercise is done during morning fasted metabolism."
Despite the fact that increased fat burning from morning cardio seems logical and is backed by research, the majority of scientists and exercise physiologists vehemently deny its effectiveness. They are quick to point out that you can find a study to support almost any theory you want to advocate. Interestingly though, even the most dyed in the wool academics agree that you’ll burn more fat in the fuel mix as compared to sugars. The real controversy lies in whether this fact has any impact on overall fat loss in the long run.
Exercise Physiologist Greg Landry, MS, author of "The Metabolism System for Weight Loss and Fitness," explains, "I agree that you burn a fuel mix that is a little higher in fat if you’re exercising on an empty stomach. However, I think the real question is, does that matter? I believe we have a ‘pool’ of calories stored in different forms in the body (fat, glycogen, etc.), so ‘burned’ calories all come from the same pool. Thus, it really doesn’t matter that the fuel mix has a little more fat in it at a given time. If it’s pulling from fat stores at that time, then it’s pulling less from glycogen stores and thus future consumed calories will be a little more likely to be stored as fat because glycogen stores are a little fuller. So it’s all a wash."
Lyle McDonald, an expert on bodybuilding nutrition and author of "The Ketogenic Diet," agrees. He argues that the body will compensate later in the day and is simply "too smart" for strategies like this to make a substantial difference in results: "All that research says is that you burn a greater proportion of fat this way, which I agree with 100%," says Lyle. "The majority of research shows that as far as real world fat loss goes, it doesn’t really matter what you burn. Rather, 24-hour calorie balance is what matters. Because if you burn glucose during exercise, you tend to burn more fat the rest of the day. If you burn fat during exercise, you burn more glucose during the day. The end result is identical. If that weren’t the case, then athletes like sprinters who never ‘burn fat’ during exercise wouldn’t be shredded. Basically, they burn so many calories that they remain in balance and don’t gain any fat. So, while morning cardio probably provides some psychological benefits to bodybuilders who are programmed to do it that way, I can’t say that I think it will result in greater ‘real world’ fat loss, which is what matters."
When it comes to "real world" fat loss, few people have more experience than Chris Aceto. A successful bodybuilder and nutritionist to some of the top pro bodybuilders in the world, Aceto is a firm believer in morning cardio. He unequivocally states, "The fastest way to tap stored body fat is to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach."
Aceto believes that looking at calories only in terms of energy in vs. energy out is "limited thinking." He asserts that there are more factors involved in "real world" results than just energy balance. This all comes back to the old argument, are all calories created equal? "Absolutely not!" Aceto declares. "A calorie is not just a calorie and exercise physiologists ‘freak out’ when they hear this."
"These guys are working from the assumption that it’s just a matter of calories in vs. calories out, period," Chris continued. "With that line of reasoning, they’d be forced to say that if I consume nothing but candy bars and Coca-Cola, and take in 100 calories less than maintenance, I’d lose weight. We know it’s not that simple. You also have to account for ratios of carbs, protein, and fat. Then there’s meal frequency too: From real world results we know you put down more muscle mass from 5 or 6 meals a day than from 3 meals a day. There are more things involved than just calories."
Whether or not morning cardio in the fasted state increases "real world" fat loss is still the subject of controversy, but there are many other reasons you might want to consider making it a part of your daily routine. Landry, despite his doubts about whether the fuel source matters, admits, "If I had to pick a single factor I thought was most important in a successful weight loss program, it would have to be to exercise first thing in the morning."
Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning (whether fasted or not):
1.It makes you feel great all day by releasing mood-enhancing endorphins.
2. It "energizes" you and "wakes you up."
3. It may help regulate your appetite for the rest of the day.
4. Your body’s circadian rhythm adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to wake up at the same time every day.
5. You’ll be less likely to "blow off" your workout when it’s out of the way early (like when you’re exhausted after work or when friends ask you to join them at the pub for happy hour).
6. You can always "make time" for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.
7. It increases your metabolic rate for hours after the session is over.
Of all these benefits, the post-exercise increase in your metabolic rate is one of the most talked about. Scientists call this "afterburn" effect the "excess post-exercise oxygen consumption" or EPOC for short.
Looking only at the number of calories and the type of calories burned during the session doesn’t give you the full picture. You also need to look at the increased number of calories you continue to burn after the workout is over. That’s right - work out in the morning and you burn calories all day long. Imagine burning extra fat as you sit at your desk at work! That’s the good news. The bad news is, the degree of EPOC is not as great as most people think. It’s a myth that your metabolism stays elevated for 24 hours after a regular aerobic workout. That only happens after extremely intense and/or prolonged exercise such as running a marathon.
After low intensity exercise, the magnitude of the EPOC is so small that its impact on fat loss is negligible. Somewhere between 9 and 30 extra calories are burned after exercise at an intensity of less than 60-65% of maximal heart rate. In other words, a casual stroll on the treadmill burns some calories and provides other health benefits, but will do next to nothing to increase your metabolism after the workout is over via the EPOC mechanism.
EPOC increase with the intensity (and duration) of the exercise. According to Wilmore and Costill in "Physiology of Sport and Exercise," the EPOC after moderate exercise (75-80%) will amount to approximately .25 kcal/min or 15 kcal/hour. This would provide an additional expenditure of 75 kcal that would not normally be calculated in the total energy expended for that activity. An extra 75 calories is definitely nothing Earth shattering. However, it does add up over time. In a year that would mean (in theory) you would burn an extra 5.2 lbs of fat from the additional calories expended after the workout.
One way to get a significant post exercise "afterburn" is by using more intense cardio workouts such as high intensity interval training (HIIT). HIIT is done by alternating brief periods of high intensity work (85% or more) with brief periods of lower intensity work. Studies on the effects of HIIT have demonstrated a much higher EPOC, which can add substantially to the day’s calorie expenditure. In one study, scientists from the University of Alabama compared the effects of two exercise protocols on 24-hour energy expenditure. The first group cycled for 60 minutes at a moderate intensity. The second group performed HIIT, cycling for two minutes at high intensity followed by two minutes at a low intensity. The group that performed the HIIT burned 160 more calories in 24 hours than the low intensity group. That means the HIIT group would burn an extra 11.8 pounds of fat in one year if they did HIIT five days a week instead of conventional training.
Ironically, weight training has a much higher magnitude of EPOC than aerobic training. Studies have shown increases in metabolic rate of as much as 4-7% over a 24-hour period from resistance training. Yes - that means bodybuilding does burn fat – albeit through an indirect mechanism. For someone with an expenditure of 2500 calories per day, that could add up to 100 - 175 extra calories burned after your weight training workout is over. The lesson is simple: Anyone interested in losing body fat who is not lifting weights should first take up a regimen of bodybuilding. Worrying about details such as whether to do cardio fasted or fed is pointless if you're not even taking advantage of the major body-composition improving benefits of weight training!
A common concern about doing cardio in the fasted state, especially if it’s done with high intensity, is the possibility of losing muscle. After an overnight fast, glycogen, blood glucose and insulin are all low. As we’ve already concluded, this is an optimum environment for burning fat. Unfortunately, it may also be an optimum environment for burning muscle because carbohydrate fuel sources are low and levels of the catabolic stress hormone cortisol are high. It sounds like morning cardio might be a double-edged sword, but there are ways to avert muscle loss.
All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you don’t overdo it, you shouldn’t worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and re-building muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and it’s a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.
How do you build up more muscle than you break down? First, avoid excessive cardio. Aceto suggests limiting your cardio on an empty stomach to 30 minutes, and then it would be "highly unlikely that amino acids will be burned as fuel." He also mentions that "a strong cup of coffee should facilitate a shifting to burn more fat and less glycogen. If you can spare glycogen, you’ll ultimately spare protein too."
Second, give your body the proper nutritional support. Losing muscle probably has more to do with inadequate nutrition than with excessive aerobics. Provide yourself with the proper nutritional support for the rest of the day, including adequate meal frequency, protein, carbohydrates and total calories, and it’s not as likely that there will be a net loss of muscle tissue over each 24-hour period.
Third, keep training with relatively heavy weights, even during a fat loss phase. Using light weights and higher reps thinking that it will help you get more "cut" is a mistake: What put the muscle on in the first place is likely to help you keep it there.
Still petrified of losing your hard-earned muscle, but you’d like to take advantage of the fat-burning and metabolism-boosting effects of morning cardio? One strategy many bodybuilders use is to drink a protein shake or eat a protein only meal 30 minutes or so prior to the morning session. The protein without the carbs will minimize the insulin response and allow you to mobilize fat while providing amino acids to prevent muscle breakdown.
In conclusion, it seems that A.M. cardio has enough indisputable benefits to motivate most people to set their alarms early. But let’s talk bottom line results here: Does doing morning cardio in a fasted state really result in more "real world fat loss" than cardio performed at other times of the day or after eating? I have to believe it does. Common sense, research and experience from 28 bodybuilding competions all tell me so. Nevertheless, this will obviously continue to be an area of much debate, and clearly, more research is needed. In the meantime, while the scientists are busy in their labs measuring respiratory exchange ratios, caloric expenditures and rates of substrate utilization, I’m going to keep waking up at 6:00 AM every morning to get on my Stairmaster for some (pretty intense) cardio.
References
1. Aceto, Chris. Everything you need to know about fat loss. Club Creavalle, Inc. (1997).
2. Bahr, R. Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption – Magnitude, Mechanisms and Practical Implications. Acta Physiol Scand. Suppl. (1992) 605. 1-70.
3. Bergman, BC, Brooks, GA. Respiratory gas-exchange ratios during graded exercise in fed and fasted trained and untrained men. Journal of Applied Physiology. (1999) 86: 2.
4. Brehm, B.A., and Gutin, B. Recovery energy expenditure for steady state exercise in runners and non-exercisers. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. (1986) 18: 205,
5. Brybner, BW. The effects of exercise intensity on body composition, weight loss, and dietary composition in women. Journal of American College of Nutrition, (1997) 16: 68-73
6. Landry, Greg. The Metabolism System for Weight Loss. Greg Landry. (2000).
7. Maehlum, S., etc al. Magnitude and duration of post exercise oxygen consumption in healthy young subjects. Metabolism (1986) 35 (5): 425-429.
8. McCarty, MF. Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss. Medical Hypothesis. (1995) 44: 325-330
9. McDonald, Lyle. The Ketogenic Diet. Morris Publishing, (1998).
10. Melby, C. et al. Effect of acute resistance exercise on post exercise energy expenditure and resting metabolic rate. J Applied Physiology, (1993). 75: 1847-1853
11. Wilmore, Jack, Costill, David. Physiology of Sport and Exercise. (1999) 2nd ed. Human Kinetics
12. Tremblay, A, et al, Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism. Metabolism (1994) 43: 818-818
13. Treuth, M.S., Hunter, G.R., & Williams, M. Effects of exercise intensity on 24-h energy expenditure and substrate oxidation. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise. (1996) 28, 1138-1143
14.Wilcox, Harford & Wedel. Medicine and Science in Sports & Exercise, (1985) 17:2
KillaMilla
Banned
Proven fact by multiple sources that the best time to do cardio is whatever the best time for u is! So in other words there in no such thing as a "best time" other than ur damn well ready. If ya dnt believe me then do the research
I dont want to keep beating a dead horse so ill stop w/ this line of reasoning after this post.
I dare anyone right now that is not waking up at 5am to start doing so and start jogging for 30 mins at 515am. In one month report back on your weight loss, weight gain, your personal succes, your business success, your overall mood, etc etc
now I dont mean go to bed at 2 after drinking, wake up at 5 jog and pass out until noon..
I mean embrace the lifestyle necessary to wake up at 5am and start getting sh!t done.
lol.. sucks its december.. not the easiest time to start jogging at 5am .. but just think about it even if you are not committed enough to do it.. all i can say is its worth it in about 100 different ways.
btw im a business owner and I dont have to be at work until 9am but im up and jogging at 6am everyday.
I dare anyone right now that is not waking up at 5am to start doing so and start jogging for 30 mins at 515am. In one month report back on your weight loss, weight gain, your personal succes, your business success, your overall mood, etc etc
now I dont mean go to bed at 2 after drinking, wake up at 5 jog and pass out until noon..
I mean embrace the lifestyle necessary to wake up at 5am and start getting sh!t done.
lol.. sucks its december.. not the easiest time to start jogging at 5am .. but just think about it even if you are not committed enough to do it.. all i can say is its worth it in about 100 different ways.
btw im a business owner and I dont have to be at work until 9am but im up and jogging at 6am everyday.
I will be doing it next week and then I have some travel planned for holiday but come beginning of jan I will be in the gym for some am cardio then get ready for work and continue life as it should be. My goal is the destroy fat and I know I will get results but doing this while already on a depleted diet will probably only allow me to do this for 6 weeks at a clip and then take 2-4 weeks off of the Am cardio session to get some extra recovery time and then repeat.
Sent from my iPhone using EliteFitness app
brandonp005
New member
That's how I do mine when that time comes to really shred up! I hate it and cuss Needto when he makes me but it simply works! Haha
johnnyboy3689282
New member
They say that jay cutler used to do a 7 am, after his workout and then about 11-12 pm at home session of cardio a day... The last one was jsut to burn extra calories off eaten throughout the day and it wasnt done when his body was in fat burning mode... so i guess i can understand why doing it anytime will help... i dont think that there is one specific strategy... i know body builders that believe in cardio before there workout, it gets them lose so theo and workout dont hurt them selves and they use BCAAs and drink a protein shake in between the cardio... There fucking huge and ripped so its all about finding your own method with attempting all of them and seeing how your body truly responds to each indivdually. I personally would never do cardio before i worked out....
AM Cardio for me on empty stomach.... My best results.. Good write up on understanding glycogen depeletion...
johnny
AM Cardio for me on empty stomach.... My best results.. Good write up on understanding glycogen depeletion...
johnny
for us as bodybuilders I would do the cardio after your workout. whether that means later in the day when you work out in the morning or directly after your workout.. save your energy for your weight training. then after stretch out.. then go grab food.. get some carbs in your system quickly.. then eat a nutritious meal consisting of carbs, cals, and protein.
also i am under the assumption that cardio means something like running or a fast paced walk. i see some guys do elliptical work before their workouts, really that is a waste of time.. the elliptical is the biggest waste of time you could do, i have a detailed thread that i started talking about why its a waste of time in the cardio section
now for the guys who are desperate to lose weight its a totally different ball game.. you shouldn't have to get to that point though if you eat clean throughout the year.. don't slack off and put yourself in that situation in the first place.
also i am under the assumption that cardio means something like running or a fast paced walk. i see some guys do elliptical work before their workouts, really that is a waste of time.. the elliptical is the biggest waste of time you could do, i have a detailed thread that i started talking about why its a waste of time in the cardio section
now for the guys who are desperate to lose weight its a totally different ball game.. you shouldn't have to get to that point though if you eat clean throughout the year.. don't slack off and put yourself in that situation in the first place.
one thing i have noticed every time someone cites one of these studies is that "10-12 hour fasted state"
I wonder how many people in the "real world" can mange this. I doubt most of us "real world" people get 10-12 hours of sleep or can fast effeciently before bed in order to meet this 10-12 hour fasted state. But, then again if we get up at 5/6 AM to do cardio i'm sure u could stop eating at 8 PM or so to get the 10-12 hours of fasting these studies cite. Once again most "real world" people i would think have a problem with being able to do this or the commitment
Just a thought
I wonder how many people in the "real world" can mange this. I doubt most of us "real world" people get 10-12 hours of sleep or can fast effeciently before bed in order to meet this 10-12 hour fasted state. But, then again if we get up at 5/6 AM to do cardio i'm sure u could stop eating at 8 PM or so to get the 10-12 hours of fasting these studies cite. Once again most "real world" people i would think have a problem with being able to do this or the commitment
Just a thought
Anytime you can fit it in!!!
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
Didn't read the thread. Don't know when it's from. I may have already responded.
But the answer is...it doesn't matter.
But the answer is...it doesn't matter.
louisiana
New member
We have the same idea! I do the same in the mornings mon-fri. On Saturday and Sunday I run around the track 2 miles fasted. I never felt so good or looked this good. I'm down to 205lbs and going for 200lbs. Don't listen to people that says cardio is not necessary.
Similar threads
