A comprehensive look at modern AAS cycling.

[Zyglamail]

i like the chart!!! one question though... there really isnt that big a difference between the frontload of 800 and 1200.... so when i frontload my eq, is it ok to shoot 2cc on monday and 2cc on thursday for the first 2 weeks???

blown93302, no there is not a lot of difference, but at the same time you have to think of our goals when frontloading. The numbers across the bottom represent days. While the 1200mg front load does not get quite as high at the beginning as the 2 week/800mg wk frontload, it does get to a high level about 5 days faster where as the no load cycle would not even reach those levels until about 33 days into it. This means that you should see results from the long lasting esters much faster and overall the cycle should be more efficient.

As for how you break up the dose, thats entirely up to you, if you want to only do two pokes a day, go for it. As you can see by the frequency chart, 1x VS 2x a week, the 1x a week has approximatly a 20% fluctuation in blood levels of active de-esterfied deca. Just think if you can add 20% more mass than you normally would by simply bleaking up the injections and taking them more frequently.

So exactly what would you advice to do in this case, Im on my fifth week of the following cycle:

DEI, no offense intended here, just an honest opinion, but cycle planning should be done before the cycle, not 5 weeks into it. Having said that and the fact your 5 weeks into it allready, I would just ride it out as you have planned. Then, next go round, if you so choose, take andy's advice and plan a new cycle utilizing some of the theories presented. Dont fret, your cycle is by no means wasted, you perhaps are just not getting as much as you can from it, if that makes sense. Just be aware that blood levels from the eq and deca will be with you for a while and as thier levels drop and no exogenous AAS comming in so your gains will diminush and perhaps even suffer while you wait for AAS levels to drop enough for clomid to be effective post cycle as Andy had pointed out previously.

 

[Andy13]

So exactly what would you advice to do in this case, Im on my fifth week of the following cycle:

1-5 d-bol
1-5 cyp test 400mg.
5-10 cyp test 800mg.
1-10 equipoise
1-10 deca

as deca and equipoise have long acting esters, would it be advisable to cut both of them off, on 6 or 7 week, and continue with fina (I have sensitive kidneys, so Id rather not), but how about using orals the last weeks, or increase the test mg. with a short acting ester to 1200mg. or leave it the same dose with the cyp?

BTW great info Andy and Zyg, thanks for sharing it.

I would definetly cut the eq and deca at week 6 and add fina.

Also-- there is no clinical evidence (that i know of) that says that fina is any harder on the kidneys than any other AAS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

Hey Zyg---- How about a chart for a 2x load of deca on day one and then 200mg twice weekly after that?

Also, could you trim some of the time off of the end of the chart so that there is more space between days?

 

[STORM SHADOW]

He's right. The use of a shorter ester in the beginnig of a cycle along with the longer one until it reaches full theraputic level is essentially the same as front loading..

But, that same result can be achieved by just loading the long ester.. You can save the shorter ester for the end.

Andy

ahhhhhh haaaa......now let's consider the economics of how to front load as we are not rich....ok I'm upper middle but my toys are ruining me.

Prop is about $50 for 20ml.....vs.......Cyp $65 for 10ml.....this is another reason I think front loading with them both to get blood levels up fast so nothing is wasted is cheaper this way.

Prop in the short run at the beginning and at the end is a cheap way to to go.......prop only becomes expensive in the long run.

So.....cyp 200 mgs 2 x's p/w & cheap prop 50ms ed for only a week brings it up to 750 to 800mgs per week right off the bat.....then the dbol or anadrol finishes off the numbers......no?

 

[Ulter]

I applaud your efforts here guys. I think if this helps people understand more about what they are doing it's great. It seems to me however you are over-complicating a pretty basic cycling concept. It's kind of like having a chemist give me a 500 word explanation, w/graphs, of why I need to change my oil. Mental masterbation is how I describe it.
I haven't read anywhere where you explain that all this changes and is different from person to person depending on their size and age. which is most likely WHY no one other than you Andy has written this up as an absolute formula. It's not.
There is a lot of useful information in this so people should take note of it. But don't forget a grain of salt.

 

[DROCK]

Damn, I thought I knew my shit till I came here, I'm new to the internet sites and have learned more here, as far as application than any book i've picked up. Have just started eq/dec/win/provi. and have changed it a million times based on info, wish this was up sooner. u the man...Drock

 

[athlete03]

Thanks for the info, Andy. I think this should be a sticky.

 

[Andy13]

I applaud your efforts here guys. I think if this helps people understand more about what they are doing it's great. It seems to me however you are over-complicating a pretty basic cycling concept. It's kind of like having a chemist give me a 500 word explanation, w/graphs, of why I need to change my oil. Mental masterbation is how I describe it.
I haven't read anywhere where you explain that all this changes and is different from person to person depending on their size and age. which is most likely WHY no one other than you Andy has written this up as an absolute formula. It's not.
There is a lot of useful information in this so people should take note of it. But don't forget a grain of salt.

(sigh) Ok Utler.. since we cannot account for the differences from person to person, then documented clinical reports such as half life is all we have to go on.

Simply saying "It's different from person to person" is the easy thing to say. I always joke and say that that is what you say when you want to disagree with something but don't have anything intellegent to say.

Could you please be a little more specific on WHICH components that we have covered in this thread that you feel are not valid?

 

[dumblucky]

bump this thread for a month******

 

[panerai]

Andy, I think, what Ulter tried to say, that there's no "perfect" cycle, and what you are insisting is "perfect" is just as close as it gets. It is great information, and it is very important to everyone to read it, especially with so many, many, many bs posts.
It's still a matter of choice, even for ones who already knew, the basics that you outlined so well.
You know, some people have different goals, then others, some have different genetics, some are younger, some older, some compete, some really laid back, etc, etc...
And, BTW, if you check AnabolicExtreme articles by Jasson Mueller, not sure about spelling of his name, sorry Jasson, he already did made those points, that you are stressing out now.
What I want to say, is , thank you, for GREAT POST, personally, I wish more people were as serious about scientific approach to steroids as you are! Nevertherless, don't be in a bullgod's position next to its bone, just because some other people come from practical point of view, it's not critisism, it's addition.