Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Really? So nobody's ever retired? Companies never grow? The economy never grows? It's all just gambling?
I mean, that's a common argument, but a pretty base and naive one.
Where to watch State of the Union Address online?
- Thread starter samoth
- Start date
Really? So nobody's ever retired? Companies never grow? The economy never grows? It's all just gambling?
I mean, that's a common argument, but a pretty base and naive one.
bakemeacookie
New member
Really? So nobody's ever retired? Companies never grow? The economy never grows? It's all just gambling?
I mean, that's a common argument, but a pretty base and naive one.
It is. Tomorrow a earthquake could hit venezuela and the market could tumble again. So what's the point? DOW is at record levels and they always bounce back. Unless you have magical powers and can predict the market accurately (and not guessing) in which i have some people who may want to talk to you
Unless you're a institutional investor with $50M lying around or have access to 2,000 hft computers to do flash trading - stock market investing is no different then goign to vegas. I'd rather take my money into areas where I am more actively involved and depend less on external factors.
c
javaguru
Banned
State of the Union is always a joke...last year Barry proposed a three year spending freeze after doubling spending that never happened (he proposed another one this year. Before that, Bush proposed we would land on Mars by 2010 in 2004....I think Nixon proposed an energy independence policy reducing imports of foreign oil....
It is. Tomorrow a earthquake could hit venezuela and the market could tumble again. So what's the point? DOW is at record levels and they always bounce back. Unless you have magical powers and can predict the market accurately (and not guessing) in which i have some people who may want to talk to you
Unless you're a institutional investor with $50M lying around or have access to 2,000 hft computers to do flash trading - stock market investing is no different then goign to vegas. I'd rather take my money into areas where I am more actively involved and depend less on external factors.
c
Arguing getting rich from exploiting arbritrage holes with day trading is quite different from arguing general, long-term market patterns. The market -- and the companies from which it's comprised -- going up is the basis of many things, including retirement funds and the success of this country.
So if I understand you right, you're arguing that every person with a retirement account is just gambling with all their money, and that statistically, they always lose it (as with casinos)? That one can't derive any relevant information from a company's balance sheets or cash flow statements?
Whether the average person likes it or not, finance plays a big role both in this country and the world. Perhaps dismissing the big people and corporations and governments as merely gamblers in the game of life is the easy way to deal with something that's not easy to understand... but that's not a concession I'm willing to make.
bakemeacookie
New member
Arguing getting rich from exploiting arbritrage holes with day trading is quite different from arguing general, long-term market patterns. The market -- and the companies from which it's comprised -- going up is the basis of many things, including retirement funds and the success of this country.
So if I understand you right, you're arguing that every person with a retirement account is just gambling with all their money, and that statistically, they always lose it (as with casinos)? That one can't derive any relevant information from a company's balance sheets or cash flow statements?
Whether the average person likes it or not, finance plays a big role both in this country and the world. Perhaps dismissing the big people and corporations and governments as merely gamblers in the game of life is the easy way to deal with something that's not easy to understand... but that's not a concession I'm willing to make.
Speculation = Gambling. Ever hear of the mortgage crisis? Speculation is not guaranteed no matter how fancy a person may talk or show you powerpoints. Nor is past history.
There's a million people who'll talk your ear off that they know how to take YOUR money and have "safe and high return" techniques. Unfortunately, there's no such thing. Those who do find it, do not tell joe blows or seek only $150M clients. Could you take my $10k and make it $15k next year with 90% guaranteed chance? I thought so. I'll keep my money in investing in active production.
The market is just moving money around. It doesn't produce anything (compare to china, which does, or saudis, who do - who is whose bitch? why?). If you can make lots of money from it (have you?) more power to you. If you don't know what you're doing = it's called gambling.
In case you forgot, it's this "gambling/speculation" that crashed & burned our economy and forced our taxes to help bail these sorry "really smart" people out. And yes, using your retirement to play around with high-risk stuff is gambling.
When these "gamblers" start taking out my taxes cuz they're completely stupid at this - I got a problem with that. If I fail at a business, do taxpayers bail me out? People like Madoff used to talk just like you too btw.
c
Last edited:
javaguru
Banned
Financial markets work like they're supposed too under the system we have. They aren't Vegas style gambling and they certainly aren't governed by the market because taxpayer money and policy skews winners and losers. Crony capitalism further skews the system and credit default swaps make mathematical sense but they cannot account for the human factor which drives all economic activity....greed and emotion. Samoth and Bakeme are arguing about nuances in a broken system where public policy interferes with the market...but what do I know.
Read some Milton Friedman if you want an expert opinion.
Read some Milton Friedman if you want an expert opinion.
nimbus
New member
skilled investors are able to determine when certain companies' share prices are undervalued with greater accuracy than guessing at random. Maybe you can't do it, but there are a lot of people out there who are more intelligent than you, understand markets better than you, and have a better social network than you. Yes there are external factors beyond the company's control, but the more you know and greater your analytical capabilities are, the less vulnerable you are to these. In fact it is knowledge of these external circumstances that is often what gives profitable investors their advantage over other traders. Yes you can still lose money investing but it is very possible for smart people who do thorough research to make money in the stock market over the long term.
And no stock prices aren't arbitrary; they are tied to earnings and projected growth. don't forget, when you buy stock, you are buying a share of the company. And for a profitable company, that is always worth something
mrplunkey
New member
If you are making medium to long-term investments in the market, you definitely aren't gambling. You are counting on an overall positive trend in the stock market which is usually a very sound assumption.
If you are making highly-informed decisions on the market based on asymmetric information then you are insider trading.
If you are trying to make quick turns on a stock using only publicly-available information, then you are gambling to a certain extent. The markets are incredibly efficient and the impact of publicly-available (and sometimes not publicly available) information gets integrated into the price very quickly.
If you are making highly-informed decisions on the market based on asymmetric information then you are insider trading.
If you are trying to make quick turns on a stock using only publicly-available information, then you are gambling to a certain extent. The markets are incredibly efficient and the impact of publicly-available (and sometimes not publicly available) information gets integrated into the price very quickly.
b0und
New member
1) Check the Dow 2000-2010 though, usual didn't hold up for the last 10 years:
Goodbye and good riddance to a decade of greed - Dec. 31, 2009
2) That's where the real money is made. Why you should not trust any investment banker/hedge fund manager.
3) Ditto
b0und (2 cents)
bakemeacookie
New member
note the keyword. Think there's tons of them around your city looking for people to give them money? Nope. For every skilled investor, there's 100 newbies doing it themselves or finding a con artist (read: madoff).
low risk = low return
high risk = high return
That formula hasn't changed in decades. But hey, if you got a formula for low risk, average/high returns - i'm all ears.
c
Last edited:
Similar threads
