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Young and low T

Crazy Barbarian

Crazy Barbarian

New member
Im not happy to post these results as they put me in a debby downee kind of mood.
Age: 20 ht: 6'3 1/2 wt: 225 bf:14-17%
Years training: 4
Dead- 525 squat- 305 bench-265

Never cycled, never done a ph, taken normal supplements like whey and creatine since I was 16, took one tribulus supplement at 18,

So should I go on trt? I want to have kids when im older but I also want to live a happy life...

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Crazy Barbarian said:
You guys s super helpful...

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Have some damn patience!

NO! your too young for HRT, your T is low because you are deficient in one or more nutrients. Fix the underlying problem and T will go up.
 
Crazy Barbarian said:
I eat a lot of healthy food ... what could I possibly be deficit in...

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The naiveity of your reply proves my point. Im not going to recreate the wheel and explain to you the dozens of places you may be deficient but suffice it to say the FDA recommended daily allowance is by and large a joke.

Our farmland is overfarmed and devoid of many nutrients so the food we eat is lacking as well.

Next, we are inundated with toxins daily that tax our bodies and use up resources for detoxification.

The very fact that your T is in the tank at your ages screams deficiency and the chances of it resolving itself are slim to non.

So you can stick your head in the sand and TRY and get on TRT (and doing so will undoubtedly leave the door open to additional deficiency issues to rear their ugly head) OR you can try and solve your problems now and likely avoid some more serious issues down the road.
 
Okay then why did my doc say I didnt have a nutrient deficiency, what could I be deficient in? What should I take?

That would help a lot more then just basically calling me an idiot.

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Crazy Barbarian said:
Okay then why did my doc say I didnt have a nutrient deficiency
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Because doctors have about as much nutritional education as you apparently do. Most of them also buy into the RDA bullshit, they are doctors not nutritional experts.


Crazy Barbarian said:
what could I be deficient in? What should I take? That would help a lot more then just basically calling me an idiot.
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Your not an idiot but you are naive. Anyone who sits back and doesnt even question whats wrong with them and blindly takes the word of one man (or woman) with "Dr." in front of their name is going to set themselves up for a world of hurt in the future.

You need to open you mind and start questioning things. Many nutrients go into making hormones and they are influenced by many bodily processes.

Have you even googled "low testosterone" and read any of the pages that address the condition? I can give you a whole slew of things to look into but its going to be a waste of my time because your going to see my list and blow me off so why should I waste my time if your not going to even take the time to help yourself?

Your test levels are not normal, especially for someone your age. Finding the deficiency is going to be a long road and likely cost a bit of money in the form of tests and supplements. It can take a long time to build up various nutritional elements in the body and you wont be able to judge the effects until you do. This is not going to be a quick fix so you have to be committed to finding the problem.

This isnt as easy as me just giving you a list of supplements and why so many people out there suffer from a myriad of problems. They simply see a doc, told they are OK and sent on their way and dont question it. Id recommend you simply start googling "natural cures for low testosterone" and see what you come up with, dont focus on these all in one test booster products but pay attention to the everyday nutrients needed in the process. Learn about the various causes. Read medical papers, studies and websites to learn how nutrients affect your body. Seek out a naturopath or functional medicine practitioner to get you on the right track.

You literally have the world at your fingertips with the internet and apparently refuse to use it. I wish I had access to the shit we have now when I was your age.

Maybe even try a book. SOmething like this..

http://www.amazon.com/Drugs-That-Do...=1383705792&sr=8-15&keywords=David+Brownstein
 
At 20 though even if his diet consisted of McDonald and Burger King it still should be in normal range . There's more to it than nutrition in ur case I would assume .. What does ur dr recommended ?
 
Aplopez8 said:
At 20 though even if his diet consisted of McDonald and Burger King it still should be in normal range .
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You think so huh? Deprive yourself of vitamin C and see how long it takes for you to fall apart. Do you think the rash of juvenile diabetes sweeping the western world is just bad luck or nutritional?

The problem with deficiencies is they arent acute. They dont present a simple easy indicator of a problem. They appear as reduced system functions which in turn get classified as a disease when ignored long enough. Its not until the "disease state" that doctors even usually get involved and when they do they just want to throw prescriptions drugs at you.

At the end of the day, nutritional deficiencies may not be the root cause of his problem but they will surely be exacerbating it. So even if he were to go down the nutritional path to find a solution what does he have to lose? On the other hand what does he have to gain? A whole lot of practical knowledge, a better understanding of many of the bodies inner workings and a much healthier base on which to apply medicinal therapies.
 
Bro I eat really clean , im talking, fish, chicken, red meat, turkey, sweet potatoea, asparagus, mixed greens, veggies mixed, brown rice, pasta whole wheat... its not my nutrition bro im not trying to be an ass but my doctor specifically said "its not a nutritional deficit, your extremely healthy"

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Crazy Barbarian said:
Bro I eat really clean , im talking, fish, chicken, red meat, turkey, sweet potatoea, asparagus, mixed greens, veggies mixed, brown rice, pasta whole wheat... its not my nutrition bro im not trying to be an ass but my doctor specifically said "its not a nutritional deficit, your extremely healthy"
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And your doc did every test imaginable? And he is a nutritionist? Your T levels are in the tank so NO your not extremely healthy. If you were extremely healthy you wouldnt have low T levels. How can that no be obvious?

Its your body and your life, stick your head in the sand, I really dont care. Im simply trying to expand your very closed universe but if your not willing to learn or question things there is nothing I can do, good luck.
 
you keep saying im close minded but you still have not given me a valuable answer as to what nutrients i could be lacking.... even though like ive said before, i eat like a bodybuilder, everything nutrient dense and clean!
 
Crazy Barbarian said:
you keep saying im close minded but you still have not given me a valuable answer as to what nutrients i could be lacking.... even though like ive said before, i eat like a bodybuilder, everything nutrient dense and clean!
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I havent given you a valuable answer? What exactly is a valuable answer in your opinion?

And what have you done to aid in the resolution of your problem? Have you logged your food intake and recorded all the macro nutrients you get on a daily basis? If so, where is the data?

If you dont want to put forth any initiative to find it, im certainly not going to waste my time.

Ive tried to prod you in the right direction and you keep telling me your diet gives you what you need and your doc says your extremely healthy.

There are whole books written on the subject and you want me to sit here and rewrite a book? Ive already explained it can be a long drawn out process to figure out which of the many things you could be lacking to cause your issue. Pick up a damn book, use the web, I honestly dont care but dont sit here and tell me im not helping you when its clear your not willing to help yourself.

Just go back to your doc and go on TRT.
 
Zyglamail said:
You think so huh? Deprive yourself of vitamin C and see how long it takes for you to fall apart. Do you think the rash of juvenile diabetes sweeping the western world is just bad luck or nutritional?

The problem with deficiencies is they arent acute. They dont present a simple easy indicator of a problem. They appear as reduced system functions which in turn get classified as a disease when ignored long enough. Its not until the "disease state" that doctors even usually get involved and when they do they just want to throw prescriptions drugs at you.

At the end of the day, nutritional deficiencies may not be the root cause of his problem but they will surely be exacerbating it. So even if he were to go down the nutritional path to find a solution what does he have to lose? On the other hand what does he have to gain? A whole lot of practical knowledge, a better understanding of many of the bodies inner workings and a much healthier base on which to apply medicinal therapies.
Click to expand...

Am I missing something? Does this guy live in some third world country and he's not getting any proper nutrition
 
Zygla is giving very top knowledge and info here. I would take his advice into serious consideration. Honestly.

You can't have low T for no reason at your age. Take into consideration and find out what the deficiency is that is causing it. Fix it. And then see what the results are. Find the reason why it's low not just jump into what can increase it by jumping on TRT.
 
Aplopez8 said:
Am I missing something? Does this guy live in some third world country and he's not getting any proper nutrition
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Im not sure where he lives but your totally snowed if you think you can get all the nutrients you need from diet alone without supplementation.

Of course my above comment also assumes your educated enough to realize the FDA's RDA by and large is based on poor science.

It is not nearly as common for a younger individual like the OP to display signs of a deficiency as some who is 40+ but its certainly not impossible and becoming more common every day as the food that make up our diet get less and less from over farmed soil and the meat we eat is feed a poorer food source and pumped full of chemicals. Combine the deteriorating food source with with highly increased exposure to stressors and toxins and we have a much greater need for antioxidants than our ancestors.

Ive been where you are, blindly ignoring the important details of nutrients thinking I got what I needed from food, but there is lots of solid science that proves otherwise so I am not asking anyone to believe me. Im encouraging your to go discover it for yourself and if you dont want to do that, thats fine also. However I am not going to sit here and argue about it when I have spent decades reading the science and your clearly have not.

The topic is vast, far too much for me to cover here on the forum and I am still discovering new science every day, sometimes actually old science swept under the rug.

If you want to prove to me Im wrong and that the diet in the first world is all encompassing, lets have a little discussion. How about we talk about the RDA for vitamin C? I believe the RDA for that is 60mg. Why dont you explain to me why that number is adequate.
 
I eat 4-5 meals a day, each with 50 g protein, 60-100g carbs, little fat
Example:
Meal1- greek yogurt, honey, hemp hearts, oatmeal , super food fruit and green concentrate supplement

Meal2- fish, red meat, veggies, healthy carbs, beans, rice, sweet potato

Meal3- same thing, some form of protein with veggies and clean carbs

Meal4-heavy protein, heavy veggies , lower amount of carbs

Inbetween meals im drinking protein shakes with 30gs in each.

I told you its not my nutrition.

I habe to ask, I smoke weed regularly, can that lower t?

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Crazy Barbarian said:
Now im just pumping myself full of multi vitamins... great
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LOL, this is getting comical! Did you graduate high school? Are you seeking to further your education? If so, do yourself a favor and take some biology classes.

Many nutrients have virtually no toxicity level while others can cause disease if levels are too high or too low. So your idea of pumping yourself full of multi's isnt the brightest of ideas. But thats okay, you werent going to do that anyway because your doc said your extremely healthy.....oh, except that you have the test levels of an 80 year old man.

You clearly dont understand that nearly all disease (and yes one could classify low test, especially at your age a disease) to be a symptom of a nutrient deficiency. The defining property of a nutrient is its ability to metabolize into 1 or more substances that have the ability to donate electrons. Certain tissues in the body have affinities for certain nutrients and when the oxidative stress on a particular organ can not be overcome by the influx of electrons from the consumed nutrients, which is greatly affected by organ affinities to said nutrients, then the oxidative stress builds, organ function declines and the signs of disease begin to emerge.

How different people respond to nutrients is influenced by genetic predisposition as well as many other environmental factors so if 10 people are exposed to a given toxin, 3 may exhibit one symptom, 3 different symptoms and the remaining 4 yet different symptoms all together.

So to try and put things simply, unless you have a genetic mutation causing you to produce low amounts of testosterone then what your low level of testosterone is telling me is that your intake of nutrients is not providing the necessary electrons to overcome the oxidative stress on one or more organs in your body and in turn are not functioning optimally (ie hence your low testosterone).

Why doesnt your doctor address this issue? Likely for 2 reasons. First of all the insurance companies dictate what can be done so if your borderline low but absent of other major symptoms of a problem then the insurance companies deem there isnt a problem and the docs hands are tied. Secondly, if the doctor cant throw a prescription at it, its likely outside of his training and expertise to address.
 
So wtf do you think im deficient in and how do I go about figuring that out or changing it...

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Dont worry... he will be eating your lunch shortly.

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From what I have read pain meds will also cause low test

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Crazy Barbarian said:
So wtf do you think im deficient in and how do I go about figuring that out or changing it...
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Hard to say since you havent given me specifics about your diet. As I have already said, log your food and track the nutrient content. Once you can tell me how much of the various nutrients you get, then I can begin to tell you where your your short.

Generally speaking A good starting point for anyone is:
200-400mg CoQ10
fish/flax oil
avoid salt thats refined (salt is good as long as its unrefined, like celtic sea salt)
800-1600mg magnesium
try and keep manganese under 2mg
make sure your multi has vit K in it
Avoid supplemental calcium (most people already have a phosphorus/calcium imbalance) and drinking milk, especially with Vit D added
Taurine, arginine, citruline 1-3g daily
Try and get 2000iu vit D, possibly as much as 10,000 but this is one that can be bad if you get too much, blood test to make sure your in the sweet spot.
melatonin before bed 3-6mg (helps for restful sleep and is a good antioxident.
Vit E 800-300IU
vit A at least 10,000IU
Vit c 3g daily at least in divided doses, going to 10 or more G a day isnt a bad thing either.
lysine 3g daily
proline 1-3g daily
glutathione precursors or liposomal glutathione

I recommend iodine/iodide as well but it needs to be done with some knowledge due to its other supplementation requirements etc and honestly I dont think your ready for it. I think however that this is likely one of your issues, iodine not only plays a key role in thyroid health, which closely effects other hormones, but its also crucial to prostate and testicular function.

As for smoking weed, any smoking, causes oxidative stress that in turn steals electrons and the electron shortage is what in turn causes the onset of disease. Nutrition is a about a lot more than just getting fats, carbs and proteins. Its also a lot more than just nutrient breakdown of the food you eat but also the oxidative and toxic load imposed on your system.

Everyones toxic load is different, those that eat a lot of protein like athletes generally eat a lot of meat. The body lackes enzymes to digest larger portions, undigested protein sitting in the digestive tract putrefies and causes toxin. Amalgum fillings causes toxins. Those that work with and are in contact with a lot of plastics or chemicals are flooded by toxins.

Maybe if you look at food as more than just fuel and consider it a source of electrons and its these electrons that get used up destroying toxins, pathogens, bacteria etc, it will help you understand that there are many things in life that increase our need for electrons and due to stress, pollutants, pathogens etc its basically impossible for a human to thrive on whole food alone.

Note I used the word thrive. The process of being malnourished (ie electron deficient) manifests itself in many ways and doesnt happen overnight. So many of the signs of aging and especially the stuff that seems to afflict those who are older like heart disease, diabetis, cataracts, glaucoma, parkinsons etc etc are really due to long term electron deficiencies.
 
Zyglamail said:
Hard to say since you havent given me specifics about your diet. As I have already said, log your food and track the nutrient content. Once you can tell me how much of the various nutrients you get, then I can begin to tell you where your your short.

Generally speaking A good starting point for anyone is:
200-400mg CoQ10
fish/flax oil
avoid salt thats refined (salt is good as long as its unrefined, like celtic sea salt)
800-1600mg magnesium
try and keep manganese under 2mg
make sure your multi has vit K in it
Avoid supplemental calcium (most people already have a phosphorus/calcium imbalance) and drinking milk, especially with Vit D added
Taurine, arginine, citruline 1-3g daily
Try and get 2000iu vit D, possibly as much as 10,000 but this is one that can be bad if you get too much, blood test to make sure your in the sweet spot.
melatonin before bed 3-6mg (helps for restful sleep and is a good antioxident.
Vit E 800-300IU
vit A at least 10,000IU
Vit c 3g daily at least in divided doses, going to 10 or more G a day isnt a bad thing either.
lysine 3g daily
proline 1-3g daily
glutathione precursors or liposomal glutathione

I recommend iodine/iodide as well but it needs to be done with some knowledge due to its other supplementation requirements etc and honestly I dont think your ready for it. I think however that this is likely one of your issues, iodine not only plays a key role in thyroid health, which closely effects other hormones, but its also crucial to prostate and testicular function.

As for smoking weed, any smoking, causes oxidative stress that in turn steals electrons and the electron shortage is what in turn causes the onset of disease. Nutrition is a about a lot more than just getting fats, carbs and proteins. Its also a lot more than just nutrient breakdown of the food you eat but also the oxidative and toxic load imposed on your system.

Everyones toxic load is different, those that eat a lot of protein like athletes generally eat a lot of meat. The body lackes enzymes to digest larger portions, undigested protein sitting in the digestive tract putrefies and causes toxin. Amalgum fillings causes toxins. Those that work with and are in contact with a lot of plastics or chemicals are flooded by toxins.

Maybe if you look at food as more than just fuel and consider it a source of electrons and its these electrons that get used up destroying toxins, pathogens, bacteria etc, it will help you understand that there are many things in life that increase our need for electrons and due to stress, pollutants, pathogens etc its basically impossible for a human to thrive on whole food alone.

Note I used the word thrive. The process of being malnourished (ie electron deficient) manifests itself in many ways and doesnt happen overnight. So many of the signs of aging and especially the stuff that seems to afflict those who are older like heart disease, diabetis, cataracts, glaucoma, parkinsons etc etc are really due to long term electron deficiencies.
Click to expand...

This is really good information... Zygla, im impressed man.. that was well broken down. I supplement all of the above except iodine. How do you suggest taking this? Is there a supplement that it usually stacks with or is it something you can get alone?

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Shrine1 said:
This is really good information... Zygla, im impressed man.. that was well broken down. I supplement all of the above except iodine. How do you suggest taking this? Is there a supplement that it usually stacks with or is it something you can get alone?
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Iodine supplementation can be tricky. Iodine causes the release of toxic halides which cause a whole slew of side effects, Many people who supplement I start getting these side effects, assume its the iodine causing problem and cease supplementation, blame the iodine and continue to the perpetuate the fear that iodine is bad.

There are some iodine aficionados who consume massive amounts of iodine daily and have done so for years with no problems. They claim you cant have too much. Most of the docs seem to opt for a more realistic approach with a goal of whole body sufficiency which simply means to give the body enough iodine so that all of its stores are full and can remain full.

The key to that is a loading phase. On average its stated that at 50mg daily of a lugols solution or iadoral you will reach this point in 90 days at which point you cat back to 12mg daily. Ideally you want to do a "loading test" at the 90 day mark. You take a single 50mg iadoral tablet and collect urine for next 24 hours, send a sample off to the lab and when the body is excreting >90% its deemed saturated and you can goto a maintenance dose. conversely If you were to simply start at and only take 12mg a day it would take a year or more for your body to reach sufficiency.

Some people jump right to 50mg other taper up over time. The link below offers guidance from one individual which I feel is fairly accurate. Pay close attention to his supplement list, selinium is very important and required if the extra iodine is going to be of optimal help. I would add Boron to the list as well 3-9mg daily.

http://home.comcast.net/~jocy1/junk/The Guide to Supplementing with Iodine.pdf

Lugols is a solution based on iodine and iodide, iadorol is a tablet form of the lugols solution. These are what I would recommend. Many guys with symptoms of low T will, in addition to oral iodine intake, paint their testicles with lugols solution. Lugols does absorb through the skin and a rudimentory test to determine how deficient you are is to paint about a 2" spot of lugols on your inner arm and see how long it takes to be absorbed. If it lasts 24 hours your should be pretty close to iodine sufficient, the faster it gets absorbed and disappears the more deficient you are.
 
I would listen close to what ziggie is writing.. he is a genius on this stuff.

he comes off tough but so what.. would you rather someone come on here and blow you off like a doc will do after examining you for 3 minutes and just say "yeah lets just put you on HRT for life" ??? or would you rather someone tell you how to correct the underlying problem without jerking you around or cutting corners... that is the thing with docs is that they LOVE to cut corners, after all they have their tennis match to get to.. they don't get paid to fix your problem, they get paid to put you on drugs and do tests on you. fixing your problem actually makes them LESS money as they want you to keep coming in

also the ONLY reason you know you have low T is cause you tested it. so kudos to you for doing that.. however do you know that 99% of your peers do not test it and have no clue? and i bet a huge percentage are also nutrition deficient. when i was 20 i probably was the same way but back then i had no clue about testosterone or that other shit. like ziggie said you have access to the internet today with a wealth of info so don't take things personal when someone is being direct with you. ziggie is VERY passionate about this shit and I don't blame him. problem is our world is so damn overpopulated that in 50 years the way things are going everyone at 20 will have low T and that will be considered normal

as far as your pot smoking being bad..ummm.. yeah? did u really think it was good for you? sounds like you are just a pothead when you say you smoke everyday. lets assume you stopped smoking pot, your T levels might jump 100 points.. if you took proper multi another 100 points.. if you stopped stressing over this stuff and enjoyed life at 20.. another 100 points.. now you are suddenly up close to 600. you say you have a bodybuilder diet.. is that everyday religiously? or is that just a couple times a week cause at 20 i have no doubt you also make trips to fast food places or grab a pizza..
 
I'm telling you Zyglamail is the man when it comes to nutrition. He blows my mind at how well he knows this shit. I always love reading anything he posts.

~ JohnyCoolNuts ~
 
Since we are on the topic of nutrients I would like to see what your thoughts are on fish oil- DHA and EPA.. I take 450mg of each, but my question is.. should I be taking more? Should I take both like I have been?

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Im a bit rusty on my fish oil but the general consensus that I subscribe to is fish oil is a good thing as long as its from cold sources and not heat processed which causes the oil to become rancid which just adds to our toxic load. 3g seems to be a good starting point. I know a lot of high end athletes literally take >10g a day. Have to be careful with thinning your blood too much though.

Recently there was a study done on selenium and vit E as they relate to prostate cancer. Over the course of the study they found in the men who got prostate cancer there were elevated amounts of omega 3's. They also claimed the the selenium had no effect and vit E raised risk slightly.

The problems with so many of these nutritional studies is that first and foremost the overall health of an individual is questionable at best and secondly a complete nutritional evaluation isnt done for participants and in cases where one element may be missing from a diet, adding others may promote the bodies secondary actions that are often (inaccurately) linked to disease or make something worse.

What I mean by the above is that often times having a nutritional imbalance can have a negative effect and if that isnt considered or taken into account then it can lead to an inaccurate or at least misleading outcome.

A prime example of this is iodine and selenium. If you supplement with selenium and are iodine deficient it will just make your iodine deficiency even worse. Thyroid health does have a direct effect on prostate health so maybe the results from the study were also impacted by degrading thyroid function by adding selenium but not iodine?
 
Zyglamail said:
Im a bit rusty on my fish oil but the general consensus that I subscribe to is fish oil is a good thing as long as its from cold sources and not heat processed which causes the oil to become rancid which just adds to our toxic load. 3g seems to be a good starting point. I know a lot of high end athletes literally take >10g a day. Have to be careful with thinning your blood too much though.

Recently there was a study done on selenium and vit E as they relate to prostate cancer. Over the course of the study they found in the men who got prostate cancer there were elevated amounts of omega 3's. They also claimed the the selenium had no effect and vit E raised risk slightly.

The problems with so many of these nutritional studies is that first and foremost the overall health of an individual is questionable at best and secondly a complete nutritional evaluation isnt done for participants and in cases where one element may be missing from a diet, adding others may promote the bodies secondary actions that are often (inaccurately) linked to disease or make something worse.

What I mean by the above is that often times having a nutritional imbalance can have a negative effect and if that isnt considered or taken into account then it can lead to an inaccurate or at least misleading outcome.

A prime example of this is iodine and selenium. If you supplement with selenium and are iodine deficient it will just make your iodine deficiency even worse. Thyroid health does have a direct effect on prostate health so maybe the results from the study were also impacted by degrading thyroid function by adding selenium but not iodine?
Click to expand...

I also read the some of the same studies regarding too much Omega.. I know one is for heart health and the other is for brain so im assuming taking both is a plus... but that helps in terms of a benchmark to how much one can supplement fish oil.

I also supplement vitamin e.. ill have to do a bit more research becuase I didnt know of any studies leading to prostate cancer..

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What so many people also fail to realize is theres a direct correlation between optimal thyroid function and just about every other process in the body. Time and time again I see people complain of low T and when I ask about the thyroid they say "my doc said its fine"....bullshit! Fine for the doctor means you are not clinically hypo or hyper (ie you lab results are in range). But that does NOT mean its functioning optimally. Iodine (and essential nutritional partners) are what the body needs for optimal thyroid function.

Think of it like a muscle and how strong you were back when you started lifting. You were healthy and could move around, feed yourself etc, you were FINE! But now after some time in the gym, you are a lot stronger, more athletic. Thats the difference between "clinically fine" and "optimal".

The relationship between thyroid function and sex hormones is fairly well documented. Here is one of many such abstracts on it. Please note that at the end they comment on radioiodine therapy and how its detrimental, and it is, but the negative results that RADIOACTIVE iodine and other improper forms of iodine has on the body is what has the medical community scared off. When I talk about iodine supplementation I am talking about inorganic, non-radioactive iodine supplementation.

Thyroid hormone deficiency affects all tissues of the body, including multiple endocrine changes that alter growth hormone, corticotrophin, glucocorticoids, and gonadal function. Primary hypothyroidism is associated with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which is reversible with thyroid hormone replacement therapy. In male children follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) is elevated and associated with testicular enlargement without virilization. Men with primary hypothyroidism have subnormal responses of luteinizing hormone (LH) to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) administration and normal response to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). Free testosterone concentrations are reduced in men with primary hypothyroidism and thyroid hormone replacement normalizes free testosterone concentrations. In men with primary hypothyroidism, prolactin is not consistently elevated (except in men and children with longstanding severe primary hypothyroidism), but prolactin declines following thyroid hormone replacement therapy. Thyroid hormone is known to affect sex hormone-binding hormonal globulin (SHBG) concentrations. Men with hyperthyroidism have elevated concentrations of testosterone and SHBG. Thyroid hormone therapy in normal men may also duplicate this elevation. In addition estradiol elevations are observed in men with hyperthyroidism, and gynecomastia is common in them as well. In contrast to patients with primary hypothyroidism, men with hyperthyroidism exhibit hyperresponsiveness of LH to GnRH administration and subnormal responses to hCG. Radioactive iodine therapy (RAI) of men treated for thyroid cancer produces a dose-dependent impairment of spermatogenesis and elevation of FSH up to approximately 2 years. Permanent testicular germ cell damage may occur in men treated with high doses of RAI. RAI commonly increases serum concentrations of FSH and LH while reducing inhibin B levels without affecting serum concentrations of testosterone. Thus, radioiodine therapy transiently impairs both germinal and Leydig cell function that usually recover by 18 months posttherapy.
Click to expand...
 
Zyglamail said:
What so many people also fail to realize is theres a direct correlation between optimal thyroid function and just about every other process in the body. Time and time again I see people complain of low T and when I ask about the thyroid they say "my doc said its fine"....bullshit! Fine for the doctor means you are not clinically hypo or hyper (ie you lab results are in range). But that does NOT mean its functioning optimally. Iodine (and essential nutritional partners) are what the body needs for optimal thyroid function.

Think of it like a muscle and how strong you were back when you started lifting. You were healthy and could move around, feed yourself etc, you were FINE! But now after some time in the gym, you are a lot stronger, more athletic. Thats the difference between "clinically fine" and "optimal".

The relationship between thyroid function and sex hormones is fairly well documented. Here is one of many such abstracts on it. Please note that at the end they comment on radioiodine therapy and how its detrimental, and it is, but the negative results that RADIOACTIVE iodine and other improper forms of iodine has on the body is what has the medical community scared off. When I talk about iodine supplementation I am talking about inorganic, non-radioactive iodine supplementation.
Click to expand...

Earlier in this thread you mentioned the importance of not only supplementing with Iodine, but also Boron and Selenium.. Are the other two a must have when going through the therapy?

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Shrine1 said:
Earlier in this thread you mentioned the importance of not only supplementing with Iodine, but also Boron and Selenium.. Are the other two a must have when going through the therapy?

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If you supplement selenium without adequate iodine or iodine without adequate selenium you will have problems so those two should be supplemented together. Boron you can skip but it really is one of the often overlooked supplements.
 
Zyglamail said:
If you supplement selenium without adequate iodine or iodine without adequate selenium you will have problems so those two should be supplemented together. Boron you can skip but it really is one of the often overlooked supplements.
Click to expand...

Ok cool.. I actually went to the supplement store yesterday to check out these two products as well as boron. But ill prob take your advice and go to amazon. I think its a bit cheaper then super supps. I selenium right there with it, but does brand matter with selenium?
 
Iodine brand is pretty important, lugols or iodarol, your likely not going to find either in a supplement store, pretty specialized. Selenium brand doesnt matter much, absorbability will differ a bit from but not enough to matter. I like the source naturals boron myself since its from 3 sources and in 3mg caps, so one with breakfast, lunch and dinner is convenient.
 
Thanks for all the info bro this thread has been very educational. I believe I probably suffer from fibroid issues based on everything that you've gone over. I'm 31 and after my last cycle my testosterone levels we're in the mid 500s. I got blood done before my cycle and I can't remember how low they were but they were lower than they should be for my age.

I also believe that I have thyroid issues because for the amount of activity and as hard as I work out I feel as if I should be able to burn fat and stay leaner than I have been.

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One interesting thing I have noticed since starting iodine supplementation is I have much less, if any testicular atrophy due to TRT. Im still taking my weekly HCG but it used to be pretty noticeable when I neared my HCG time.

I know my thyroid was not functioning optimally either, its a lot more common than most people think. No matter how clean I ate I just couldnt get rid of belly fat. That can boil down to a a few things, adrenal stress, under active thyroid and high toxicity.

Im in the process of putting together all the supporting data and am going to write a little paper on it. Some people are actually starting to listen and it will save me from recreating the wheel in a bunch of threads. :)
 
Let me know when you do bro... this is very good information. Im looking forward to starting this therapy.
My wife had hyperthyroidism and it changed to hypothyroidism and she now takes armour she got prescribed from here naturopath. I would like to get hers corrected if I could. In a case like that would she have to stay on that forever?

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There is a pretty good chance it could be reversed but will likely take a long time. In addition to iodine (and possibly selenium deficiency) she likely is carrying around a lot of fluoride/bromide so in a case where someone is truly hypo they need to detox so the iodine/selenium can do its job. That process can take a year or more. If she already has a naturopath I would see if they are willing to work with her on iodine supplementation to attempt resolution.

Id start with an iodine loading test with bromide toxicity, think its about $150. That will give you the current iodine and bromide levels. Then I would decide if she wants to go all in or simply ease into it. If she wants to ease in, get lugols solution 5% and start with a drop a day (6mg iodine/iodide combo) for a week and add a drop a week until she gets to 50mg or so.

If she just wants to go all in you can either use lugols or iodarol(50mg) and hit the ground running. Run 50mg or so for a good 90 days and retest iodine/bromide and adjust accordingly. If iodine loading comes back as good but bromide is still high you can stay at the high iodine dose to continue to detox or cut back to about 12mg. High dose vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) will speed up detoxing as well. The more she can tolerate a day the better, split up in many doses. I take 3g 5-7 times a day myself, its cheap and beneficial for so many things.

If she wants to give it a try and you need some lab names for bromide toxicity/iodine loading test PM me.
 
I also recommend milk thistle or any legitimate liver detox to speed up the process.

How do I know if I'm 'toxic' and need to detoxify first before using iodine?
 
EnduranceBrah said:
I also recommend milk thistle or any legitimate liver detox to speed up the process.

How do I know if I'm 'toxic' and need to detoxify first before using iodine?
Click to expand...

Do you drink fluoridated water? any bread? And just plain exposure to plastics etc all around us gaurantees you have halide toxicity. Toxicity is a given.

HBO Online
 
Here is a great video on iodine supplementation for those interested. This really should be one of the first steps for anyone looking for optimal performance.

 
Why is there such a large difference between your squat and dead?

I dead 465 and squat 450....those shouldn't be so far apart...
 
I dont think the op is paying any attention to this thread. He thinks im crazy because nutrition cant possibly have any effect on health or hormone levels.
 
Another Doc discusses iodine, how the lab tests are just a small peice of the puzzle, importance of supplementation to restore proper thyroid function.





And here is another series, largely about testosterone but mentionns iodine/thyroid.







 
I had sub 300 levels when I was 18. Eventually gave in when I was 21. I'm usually around the 1300 ng mark now days. I would recommend it if a clomid/ HCG restart failed. Did you ever have a testicular injury? That's what caused mine.
 
Sir i m 21year old..!! And my height is 5foot 4inch....
But acc to my dad its short my dad is nearly 5:11 .....
So sir i want to ask that can i increase my height if yes then how??
I will thanking u sir
 
You can't increase your height bro. Just because your dad is tall doesn't mean anything. I'm 6'2" and my fiancé is 4'11". Guess what. If we have kids, it doesn't mean they follow my height.
 
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