Even when I was on tren/winny, 30mg/day winny, and 7% bodyfat dieting for a contest, never had joint pains from winny. I know i'm in the minority, and I'm younger, and the dosage wasn't as high... but the point is valid. Winny joint pains don't effect everyone. I believe MSM as well as glucosamine/chondroitin helps quite a bit with this, as does low-dose deca of course.