Why the AMES test does not say DNP is safe

[sk*]

AMES should not be the sole test for DNP (and perhaps not even a test at all). But dismissing AMES does not also dismiss all the other published, peer-reviewed medical tests that find DNP to ATTACK tumors (rather than causing them), and to attack resistance bacteria, and to PROTECT cells from mutagens/mutations.

Okay, so we can dispense with AMES, but that doesn't dispense with the other medical info that says some NICE things about DNP, too.

Am I saying DNP is safe as Flintstones vitamins? Heck, no. But I'm saying that if we want honest information, we need to emphasize the "honest" as well as the "information," and HONESTLY, not all the data on DNP is bad. Some is; a lot isn't.

Some of the mods are promoting dnp to be safer than ephedrine blah blah, and when asked what about free radicals??? They will say, "oh take your vitamins" ... and also never fail to bring up that dnp passed the AMES test. Then some of their parrots go on and repeat that dnp passed the ames test so it can't cause cancer.

All I want is for some people to be more curtious of other peoples' LIVES. Most of us here aren't chem majors nor are even interested in the area to study it, so this means the moderators have a good deal of responsibility ... at least the ones that claim to be a "guru" on the subject.

-sk

 

[sk*]

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[MrMakaveli]

From Andy13:

By now, every one knows that DNP acts at the powerhouse of the cell, the mitochondria. DNP causes the disipation of the proton motive force which makes ATP synthesis by oxidative phosphorilation less efficient. That means that your electron transport system of generating the proton gradient that drives the synthesis of ATP has to work a whole lot harder to make the same amount of ATP.. That's exactly why your metabolism gets boosted!

The problem here is that all the DNA in the cell is not entirely in the nucleus. Mitochondria have their own DNA as well. And mitochondrial DNP codes for some of the mitochondrial proteins that aid in metabolism and a whole host of other things.

What happens during oxidative phosphorilation (making ATP from the proton gradient) is that, in the end, molecular oxygen gets reduced to water. Sometimes, this doesn't go so well and peroxides instead of water form in the mitochondria. These are harmful free radicals that cause mutations in mitochondrial DNA. So, you say, "no problem, I'll just load up on my alpha lipoic acid and it's all good, right?'' Unfortunetly, WRONG. NO antioxidant can enter the mitochondria inner membrane. It's impermeable to everything but O2 water and CO2. And free radical formed inside the mitochondria runs wild inside changing everything from the membrane to the mitochondrial DNA.

While cancer is associated with NUCLEAR DNA mutations, parkinson's disease, general aging, alsheimer's and the things about old people that make them OLD (like reduced motor skills, hearing loss) is caused by mutations in mitochondrial DNA.

People who have a genetic predisposition to diseases like parkinson's, alzheimer's and huntington's disease tend to fuck up that reduction of molecular oxygen to water a bit more often that others. These people should re-think DNP use.

 

[SofaGeorge]

Excellent post. You are a great asset to the boards.

 

[sk*]

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[EngiCream]

AMES should not be the sole test for DNP (and perhaps not even a test at all). But dismissing AMES does not also dismiss all the other published, peer-reviewed medical tests that find DNP to ATTACK tumors (rather than causing them), and to attack resistance bacteria, and to PROTECT cells from mutagens/mutations.

Okay, so we can dispense with AMES, but that doesn't dispense with the other medical info that says some NICE things about DNP, too.

Am I saying DNP is safe as Flintstones vitamins? Heck, no. But I'm saying that if we want honest information, we need to emphasize the "honest" as well as the "information," and HONESTLY, not all the data on DNP is bad. Some is; a lot isn't.

thank you...I just used some of DNP for Dummies post over on Animal's board.

 

[sk*]

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[bigrand]

Good points.
All other Phenols and benzene compounds have tested positive as carcinogens, but DNP stays negative....
Now after reading what you have stated, i will concede that the AMES test is not a proof, but the fact that DNP was negative to other phenols is a good thing. Michtochondrial mutation wont neccesarialy mean reproduction of a malignant cell line, the nuclear DNA hasent been mutated.
Also, like was stated, it takes around 7 mutations in a DNA strand to make cells malignant, where is there any proof if any that DNP will even cause 1 ot these mutations.

In terms of DNP being used as an anti cancer drug, i believe it was because of the body's increase in temp and the tendancy of malignant tumors to be more temperature sensitive than other body tissues.

NFG, could i email you about this type of thing, im trying to decide where to tak emy education and this is the type of thing im interested. Ill start with a mico or molecular bio first though....

I also want to know something else.....
The body destroys mutated cells with the immune system.
why does a mutated cell last long enough to become malignant and then why is it not killed by the immune system?
Cancer is a VERY interesting topic for me, its killed very important people to me, so any knowledge on it is appreciated...

 

[sk*]

Can't believe so many were claiming "dnp passed AMES so it can't cause cancer", but now all those people are out of sight.

I would LOVE to hear fonz's responce here.

-sk

 

[sk*]

Now we shouldnt go around yelling "DNP can cause cancer" and shit....
The truth is, the AMES test is/was vastly used to detect carcinogens and DNP passed the test.
Instead of stating reasons as to why DNP isnt a good candidate for the AMES test, how about showing us proof that DNP IS carcinogenic.
Are you ready to base your opinions off of one persons belief on how the AMES test is inadiquate?

I am not making an opinion yet, I am just dissapointed in some of the people.

I have taken dnp before, and rather my buddy NFG is wrong.

-sk