Which do you believe is resposible for more strength gains, CNS stimulation or Muscle

[Deciever]

wow thats a lot to get out of a shirt!

 

[p03t1c]

i don't ever think i've heard of a person getting over 250lbs out of a bench shirt.

 

[Arioch]

I get that much out of a shirt every time I dream about benching.

Does that count?

 

[Lumberg]

Hey I think you guys (Arioch and ZZulu) are making this a black and white issue, like only CNS potentiation and size of muscle affect strength. What about concentrations of various substances within the muscle? Or the concentration of certain contractile bodies within the muscle. As per the first, this is the principle that creatine supplementation works off of, making ATP more readily available in larger amounts to muscle cells. Who knows, maybe the concentrations or relative concentrations of substances such as calcium and potassium can affect strength. A severe deficiency would certainly cause severe weakness. The second factor concerns those ratchet mechanisms in the muscle (I forget what they are called) that are in effect the actual mechanical basis for muscle contraction. Isn't it possible that the 145 lb guy who benches 450 could have more of those per muscle cell in his pecs than the 215 lb guy that benches 350? This would amount to a higher strength vs. cross sectional area ratio.

Add these factors to size and CNS efficiency and you have a damn complicated model.

 

[ZZuluZ]

Yes, the endocrine system also factors in.

Hell, even dehydration has been shown to diminue strength levels.

It was I who was trying to make a generalization for simplicity's sake; Arioch had it right.

-Zulu

 

[benchmonster]

Lately in the past few years of powerlifting it has been moving away from CNS stimulation and muscle strength but has gone to equipment. I personally know of a guy who can't bench 500 pounds with out a shirt and when he wears a shirt can hit 750 at 275 pounds body weight. Also a persons leverage, body mechanics, pain tolerance and tendon strength must also be considered.

I have heard this one ever since Bill Crawford first did his 750. Get over it dude. I have heard similar stories about Chris Confessore. Guess what, the bar touched the chest and it got locked out. Think the shirt did that? Maybe the guy inside the shirt had just a tiny bit to do with it.

I have also heard from people who have been there that both the individuals I just mentioned have done over 600 raw. But who cares? What you can do under meet conditions is what matters.

Why don't you borrow Bill's shirt and toss up 750.

B.

 

[strongestsurvive]

I know all the guy up at adirondack nataulis where bill trains, his training partner sebastian burns even told me that he can't do 500 raw. He came out and trained with mike ruggeria and I in syracuse 2 weeks before he did his first 700 bench at the arnold classic in 99 and could only bench 405 for 4 with out a shirt. If he is that strong why doesn't he do a raw meet and shut everybody up. I said it to him in person at last years world cup in york when my arm was in a brace after I just tore my tricep tendon and he didn't dare deny it.

strongestsurvive

 

[benchmonster]

Who the Hell does raw meets? I guess I need to get a shirt where Bill does, so that I can bench 650. I guess his shirt just goes up there on the platform and pushes the weight without him.

Strongest, I know you are a very good raw bencher. If these magic shirts are so great, and put 250 lbs on everyoné s bench, then why arent you benching 800? Why arent the guys like Chabot who bench 600 raw doing 850?

Shirt or no shirt, you still have to lock out the weight.

B.

 

[Deciever]

i think what he's trying to say is that the person who gets 250lbs out of his shirt, probably has very weak lats and/or poor barspeed but incredibly strong triceps, so once he gets that shirt on, it kinda brings his lats and bar speed up to par w/ his triceps.

 

[solidj55]

Ok so does anyone know where you can find info on how the Russians and Eastern European guys train??? I would be interested in knowing since they are small guys that are hella strong.