Which do you believe is resposible for more strength gains, CNS stimulation or Muscle

[solidj55]

I forgot to also ask those that may know, I was reading somewhere late last night that sprints are supposed to be good for CNS carry over into strength sports because they teach explosiveness and speed but I dont know how true that is. What do you guys think??

 

[endpoint]

solidj55

there are some russian powerlifting routines on here

http://www.worldpowerlifting.com/

 

[ZZuluZ]

Don't quote me on this, but if you want explosiveness stick to the O-Lifts.

And you don't want to train like the Eastern Europeans do. Synaptic facilitation seems to be the name of the game. That means you're in the gym all day [or at least 3 times].

-Zulu

 

[endpoint]

Synaptic facilitation would require more than 3 visits to the gym.
more like 20.


Ps i still stand by my statement of stimulants being able to help your CNS performing better

 

[ZZuluZ]

'Synaptic facilitation would require more than 3 visits to the gym.
more like 20. '

No, you're thinking of the term synaptic facilitation termed by Pavel Tsatsouline. It has more than one application.

'Ps i still stand by my statement of stimulants being able to help your CNS performing better"

And you are wrong, I believe, as stimulants only stimulate the endocrine system. But since you stand by it; do you have a source?

I can't think of any external factor which would potentiate the nervous system except for hypnosis.

-Zulu

 

[Arioch]

Hey I think you guys (Arioch and ZZulu) are making this a black and white issue, like only CNS potentiation and size of muscle affect strength.

Eh? I am saying just the opposite, that it is impossible to say, and that there are far too many factors to have anything beyond simple working theories.

What about concentrations of various substances within the muscle?

Depends. Using limit strength as the example, there is not a lot that will affect this aside from certain issues which I will adress below. Hydration is a key factor, however.

As per the first, this is the principle that creatine supplementation works off of, making ATP more readily available in larger amounts to muscle cells.

ATP-CPK cycle takes about 6-10 seconds to effect a contractile change. Not too many lifts take that long to complete, however long it sometimes feels like. If one were doing more than one rep, this would certainly be an issue.

Who knows, maybe the concentrations or relative concentrations of substances such as calcium and potassium can affect strength. A severe deficiency would certainly cause severe weakness.

This is quite true, as well as numerous other minerals. Once again the importance of proper nutrition is displayed.

Isn't it possible that the 145 lb guy who benches 450 could have more of those per muscle cell in his pecs than the 215 lb guy that benches 350? This would amount to a higher strength vs. cross sectional area ratio.

Already been adressed. Differences in motoneuron function, motor unit ennervation, rate coding, synchronization, etc. are all part of the Neurophysiological structure that affects the ability of a muscle to generate force. And as was previously mentioned, it is hard to draw the line as to where neural ends and hypertrophyic response ends, as even fiber structure and size can effect the functioning of the motoneurons.

 

[solidj55]

I just looked at that website about the russians and looked at some of the workouts, records, and pics. All I can say is how in the hell do these guys not over train when they are hitting bench twice a day, three times per week? I know they didnt do a lot of reps but there percentages of maxes were as heavy as 80-85% on some days. I guess you cant argue with the strength they have though. I would think even on "gear" that they would overtrain at that kind of workout. Can someone please explain the logic behind it? I know that if I hit a good bench on Monday then I am still too sore Thursday to do a full range of motion press. Thats why I hit the board presses on Thursday. Oh well I cant do a Russian routine lol.

 

[solidj55]

Oh yea and I forgot to add that in all of the pictures of the bench pressers they were all wearing poly shirts.

 

[ZZuluZ]

You've got to understand that these athletes have been doing this for years. They have the work capacity to pull it off.

They never train anywhere NEAR failure [at all, near] either.

-Zulu

 

[solidj55]

I never hardly ever train to failure either but I may try something similar to the russians, just not two time per day and most definetly not three times a day. I will hit it once per week and have another day to do a similar movement. We will see though.