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What should I do to burn fat without burning muscle?

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Smokescreen

Experienced Noob
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Heres my situation. I can only go to the gym to lift weights 4 days a week. I want to burn lots of fat but also preserve as much muscle as possible. So I take it that for this to happen, I not only need my diet to be right. But I also need to do a cardio workout after my weight training. So what should i do after I finish with my weight training?

Get on a treadmill and walk on a steep at slow speed for 30 minutes?

OR

Get on a treadmill and run at a fast pace for less minutes???
 
The more intense and shorter in duration the cardio is, the more anaerobic it is (meaning, it burns sugar for fuel, glycogen).

Stick to longer duration, somewhat lower intensity. You can start at 65-70% MHR
 
I don't know bro. I spoke to Quadsweep on this. And he is fucking ripped and huge!!! And he said that shorter and intense cardio is better. Sprints is what he does.
 
it depends on your body type bro. What worked for him or me, will not necessarly work the same for you.

best you can do is try each for 2 weeks and monitor your LBM, then draw your own conclusions

Besides, if you had your mind already set, why bother asking?
 
I do not have my mind set at all. Quadsweep told me this late last night. I just woke up a while ago. :) Still want to get more opinions on this.
 
Quadsweep doesn't know what he's talking about.

Pintoca hit it right on the first post.

The faster muscles use glycogen. The slow twich muscles use fat. Plain and simple.
 
Synpax said:
Quadsweep doesn't know what he's talking about.

Pintoca hit it right on the first post.

The faster muscles use glycogen. The slow twich muscles use fat. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Have you even seen Quadsweeps physique? How can you say that he doesn't know what he is talking about when he clearly has the physique to prove that he does know what he is talking about.
 
wesley90 said:
LOL that is funny but your gonna get it for sayin that.
Click to expand...

Whatever. He could be Arnold and that still doesn't mean he can change human physiology.

What he recommends does one thing - drain the glygocen from your muscles in a hurry. Has nothing to do with Fat.
 
I went from smooth to ripped in 4 months loosing a lot of fat and water; 230-205
(1) Eliminated all fast sugars and flours (more sugar).
(2) Rode the recliner bike at very low resistance for 30 mins everyday prior to wo.
(3) Each body part 3 exercises, 3 X 8; push/legs/pull/rest.
 
LION....recliner bike??

Does that thing really work? Seems to easy to me...maybe I should try??? Heavy resistance or what?

I use the elipical...low heart rate and easy on joints....then .5 to 1 mile on the tread...

I'm not much of an aerobics guy....
 
Yeah, the Lion has it right. I gave my mom one of those for Xmas. It's also called a recumbant stationary bike. Very comfortable. Low resistance. The idea is to get the HR in a somewhat accelerated pace but not too fast (Zone 2).
 
I personally think if you want to burn fat and save muscle, DO SPRINTS!!!. I don’t care what body type you have, go to a football field and if you are in decent shape start at one end zone and sprint as fast as you can to the other end. You will be so dead after 2 or 3 if you have never done sprints.

When I say sprints I mean you are basically accelerating the entire time, your fastest point will be when you cross the endpoint. This is very difficult to really do because it is so grueling in my opinion. I played football in college and the most ripped of my teammates were always the running backs and they were always doing sprints.

Start with 100-yard sprints and if you have a decent diet you will see your legs get bigger and stronger and the fat will melt off.

Good luck
 
There has to be something to this "sprinting" advice.

Ever compare the body of an Olympic Sprinter (or any lever for that matter) to a Long Distance Runner?

Sprinter - ripped/thick/muscular/solid
LD Runner = weak/skinny.....aka....."catabolic poster child" !

I agree with that statements about low intensity and moderate duration = fat loss but there IS something about a Sprinter's physique that cannot be denied and substantiates questions!
 
That's because the sprinting builds up muscle. They probably never had any fat to begin with, being athletes and all. So the long distance runners have no fat and no muscle, the sprinters have no fat but more muscle.

It really is bad advice if you want to lose fat. If you want muscular legs it's better advice.
 
Whacked said:
There has to be something to this "sprinting" advice.

Ever compare the body of an Olympic Sprinter (or any lever for that matter) to a Long Distance Runner?

Sprinter - ripped/thick/muscular/solid
LD Runner = weak/skinny.....aka....."catabolic poster child" !

I agree with that statements about low intensity and moderate duration = fat loss but there IS something about a Sprinter's physique that cannot be denied and substantiates questions!
Click to expand...

First, I am an endurance runner and I know a lot of endurance runners who are pretty ripped/strong.

RDJ is right - sprinting and endurance running are two entirely different things. One uses oxygen and fat for fuel (endurance), the other uses glycogen from the muscles (fat).

The reason you don't see any fat sprinters is because fat people don't sprint. You also don't see too many fat endurance runners either.

It's simple science. You can attach a device to your mouth while you run to see what kind of fuel you are using based on the contents of your breath. Sprinting is glycogen (just like bench pressing) - endurance training is fat.
 
I was under the impression that the purpose of extreme intensity (sprints, or hiit) was to rev metabolism for the rest of the day. Not being so concerned with what fuel is being used "during" the exercise, but how much more will be used after, and for the rest of the day.
 
Jesus fucking christ. So what if you do sprints and burn glycogen. That means the carbs you eat will replenish your depleted glycogen stores and not be stored as fat!!!!!
 
psychedout said:
Jesus fucking christ. So what if you do sprints and burn glycogen. That means the carbs you eat will replenish your depleted glycogen stores and not be stored as fat!!!!!
Click to expand...

Take a time out and relax.

You are correct - except you didn't loose any fat. Which is exactly what the title of the thread is.

And I don't know what sprinters you've been looking at, but they ain't got too much on the marathoners muscle-wise, particularly above the waist.
 
ok by no means am i an expert on this however i have been involved in a number of different sports football boxing martial arts powerlifting olympic lifting etc. bottom line is low intensity cardio will burn fat, high intensity cardio will burn glycogen its hard science. however if are a sprinter or a long distance runner and your volume aerobic/ or anaerobic activity is high you will burn a ton of calories and yes you will loose body fat, however high intensity cardio is not the most effecient means of loosing bodyfat, and you will have to do alot of lifting eating etc. to avoid loosing lots of muscle, so if maximum muscle gain is your goal(and you want to loose bodyfat) you will want to limit your high intesity cardio. however if you end up doing 7-14 hrs. of low intensity cardio a week and you are still not loosing bodyfat(you plateau) only thing left to do is to work in a day of high intensity cardio, which will get you in better cardio vascular shape, and alow you to do more work on low intensity cardio days but still have the same heart rate
 
bob1234 said:
however if you end up doing 7-14 hrs. of low intensity cardio a week and you are still not loosing bodyfat(you plateau) only thing left to do is to work in a day of high intensity cardio, which will get you in better cardio vascular shape, and alow you to do more work on low intensity cardio days but still have the same heart rate
Click to expand...

Actualy, if you still aren't losing fat, it's diet. Diet is a huge factor in this - more so than cardio. You can get into single digits on diet alone pretty quickly. That last little bit is tricky, and many who are in it are using drugs like clen or T3 rather than cardio.
 
ya your right anybody doing that much cardio and not loosing fat is eating bad, i put the what to do when you have reached maximum amount of low intensity cardio and you are stuck as a point of referance, but ya you have a point
 
As far as the low intensity-long duration vs. high intensity shorter duration goes, studies have been done and shown that low intensity does indeed burn fat for fuel compared to sprints and such burning glycogen for fuel. However, the studies also show that the metabolism is raised to a far higher degree for a far longer time period after the high intensity and therefore continous to burn more calories after the workout compared to the low intensity aerobics. IMO, high intensity is better but low intensity may work well for others. Regardless of which you do, as long as your diet is good, you are going to lose fat.
 
The whole premise of this discussionis wrong. No, sprinters are no Mr. Olympians and endurance athletes are not famined ethiopians (though some are ethiopian). Go look at Lance on the cover of Men Quarterly. Or Chris Leigh. Then go look at Michael Johnson. Johnson's legs/bug are bigger, but that's really it - and he's about the fastest guy ever.

And endurance athletes need to spend time in the gym just like the sprinters. They need to build their slow twitch, fat burning muscles where sprinters need to build their fast twitch, gylcogen burning muscles. They often do this with slow slow, low-count reps.
 
Carth said:
Heres my situation. I can only go to the gym to lift weights 4 days a week. I want to burn lots of fat but also preserve as much muscle as possible. So I take it that for this to happen, I not only need my diet to be right. But I also need to do a cardio workout after my weight training. So what should i do after I finish with my weight training?

Get on a treadmill and walk on a steep at slow speed for 30 minutes?

OR

Get on a treadmill and run at a fast pace for less minutes???
Click to expand...

take 1 gram primo a week :-)
 
Sorry for the bad advice, i was just told ever since high school and through college football that running more than a mile was going to burn muscle as well as fat. So i always assumed that doing sprints was the best way to burn fat without loosing muscle.

Is there any truth to that theory that running over a mile will burn muscle as well as fat?
 
Carth
1. Get diet correct. I would eliminate the sugars as much as possible. Start using fats for fuel and create a caloric deficit. This will train the body to burn fat as fuel
2. I don't believe cardio is needed at all for you. You're already under 10% Weight training can burn calories just as effectively as cardio especially circuit training.

Biggest thing for you is deit , not cardio.
yams , whole grain oats , green fibrous veggies for slow digesting carbs. Milk protein for slow digesting protein. Use usaturated fats , coconut oil and mct's for energy.
 
Why do one or the other? Why limit yourself? Work out a routine that incorporates the two. You want to preserve muscle? Sprints are anerobic so you will not only maintain muscle, you should in theory add to it all the while cranking you metabolism. You want to lose fat. LSD. Long slow Distance. Be careful not to get to a point where you are going catabolic though. Everyone here is so black and white. Come over to the grey area. theirs more than enough room!
 
musclebosun said:
Why do one or the other? Why limit yourself? Work out a routine that incorporates the two. You want to preserve muscle? Sprints are anerobic so you will not only maintain muscle, you should in theory add to it all the while cranking you metabolism. You want to lose fat. LSD. Long slow Distance. Be careful not to get to a point where you are going catabolic though. Everyone here is so black and white. Come over to the grey area. theirs more than enough room!
Click to expand...

I also like the idea of doing sprints. They will promote muscle growth , but the problem is that losing fat requires a caloric deficit. You will have a hard time building muscle on a caloric deficit. Sprints alone aren't going to burn the calories needed for fat loss. So ICan you to explain this grey area you talk about?
 
Sprints alone aren't going to burn the calories needed for fat loss. So ICan you to explain this grey area you talk about?[/QUOTE]

Go back and read my post bro. I didn't say sprints alone. I said a combination of sprints and moderate cardio. Sprints are anerobic thus at the very least preserving the existing muscle if not building more [depending on calorie intake]. Moderate cardio will burn fat if training at the right intensity and again depending on calorie intake.
 
I think people who don't know or can explain the science should keep their mouths shut on my board. Damn I wish I had mod powers. It's almost enough to go plat to keep bad advices off my board.
 
Synpax said:
I think people who don't know or can explain the science should keep their mouths shut on my board. Damn I wish I had mod powers. It's almost enough to go plat to keep bad advices off my board.
Click to expand...

LMAO!!!

Do it!!!
 
Syn, here is what you wrote last year on the topic, has your positon changed?



Here ) Muscle burning cannot be seperated from intenstity, but do not worry too much about losing muscle cause I doubt you are getting into that unless you try starving yourself.
2) Running intervals would probably be best if you can do them. Otherwise run long as far as you can at as fast as you can. Mix it up.
3) Eating? For me: Pre-cardio - Protein (1 hour digest) + carbs (unless you are cutting). Right before, water and electrolytes. After, water, protein (shake for me), and dextrose. And carbs an hour later (slow carbs - oats).
 
cwpick said:
Syn, here is what you wrote last year on the topic, has your positon changed?



Here ) Muscle burning cannot be seperated from intenstity, but do not worry too much about losing muscle cause I doubt you are getting into that unless you try starving yourself.
2) Running intervals would probably be best if you can do them. Otherwise run long as far as you can at as fast as you can. Mix it up.
3) Eating? For me: Pre-cardio - Protein (1 hour digest) + carbs (unless you are cutting). Right before, water and electrolytes. After, water, protein (shake for me), and dextrose. And carbs an hour later (slow carbs - oats).
Click to expand...
On what topic? Link?
 
Point is your telling people they dont know shit and to suck your nuts because they said the same thing you said last year. I guess you sucked nuts. If you want to delete bad advise for someone giving there thoughts then you never would of changed your way of thinking.
 
cwpick said:
Point is your telling people they dont know shit and to suck your nuts because they said the same thing you said last year. I guess you sucked nuts. If you want to delete bad advise for someone giving there thoughts then you never would of changed your way of thinking.
Click to expand...


I would also say that this is pretty extreme to look at all of someones posts for a year just to prove a point. I think we should be comparing present advice and not digging stuff up from years past like attempts to find dirt on politicians.
 
Wasn't digging up dirt to prove a point. I was looking for information on this because it seems to be pretty divided on what is best. This thread was mixed so thought I would look back to get more opionions and stumbled across that post. Just didn't understand why Syn seemed so defensive when someone else had the same advice he had.

His knowledge on this subject is by far more superior than mine but seemed out of line a few times in getting it across. I for one agree with him just didn't understand wanting to delete what he thought were ignorant posts, especially when he once thought and said the same things.
 
Lifter333 said:
I personally think if you want to burn fat and save muscle, DO SPRINTS!!!. I don’t care what body type you have, go to a football field and if you are in decent shape start at one end zone and sprint as fast as you can to the other end. You will be so dead after 2 or 3 if you have never done sprints.

When I say sprints I mean you are basically accelerating the entire time, your fastest point will be when you cross the endpoint. This is very difficult to really do because it is so grueling in my opinion. I played football in college and the most ripped of my teammates were always the running backs and they were always doing sprints.

Start with 100-yard sprints and if you have a decent diet you will see your legs get bigger and stronger and the fat will melt off.

Good luck
Click to expand...

i used to do sprints 100 yards up, 100 yards back, wait for 30 seconds, then do it again as fast as you can. it is tough shit but if you do it hard enough you feel so euphoric at the end of it. dont know about what this does in relation to fat burning and muscle maintenance as opposed to lighter and longer duration cardio, i was doing this with a high-rep lifting program and a lot of running.
 
An interesting subject for you fat burners: Paleolithic diet. If you seem unable to lose fat you may be slightly insulin resistant, which may be a result of your diet (most cardio people have high carb diets, insulin resistance is a result of insulin spikes after intake of grains, potatoes, etc).

An interesting read IMHO, see for yourself.
 
can't we all just get along? I think everyone should remember that all training is not an exact science. What works for one person will not always work for another.
 
First, what I said back then doesn't contradict what I am saying now - I said run as far as you can as fast as you can - and that me, I personally do intervals or fartlek because that was more in tune with my goal - which is a pretty good way to increase the amount of time you can stay in fat burning mode while also getting some speed work done.

Second, this isn't a chat room. There are boards where you can make all kinds of assertions and speculate - this isn't one of them. This is a place where people with serious goals go to get solid advice on matters that, if they are mis-informed, could result in injury.

So if I could, I would probably delete a lot of old threads and posts here where someone seeking advice is getting bad advice. I'd even delete/sharpen the post that is being quoted.

I'm planning to put a FAQ up when I have the time to (my own business has been beating me down lately, time-wise.) Then anyone else with some serious knowledge can peer review it and whenever we get one of these repeat questions we hear so often, we can refer them to that.
 
I think there has been some mixed advice about all this stuff. You can do cardio at a moderate intensity for longer duration say(40min to 60min) intially, and watch the response. If you feel that its too much, take a day off to reverse the look and load some carbs. Again repeat. I would not suggest doing cardio in this fashion for more than 3 days at a go. Take a day off. You'll feel much energized and motivated. That should work.
It also depends on what kinda diet you are on now. If you can be that smart guy, then don't consume any sort of carbs within an hour of doing the cardio. To overcome soreness later, I have found that SOYA shakes can greatly help (I would prefer this if I have the soy) or adding in a little carb to my whey helps. I hope that should help. (Note:Sometimes even the most experienced can get confused due to all the fuss!)
 
tgriff said:
Wow finally someone said it...
Click to expand...

I'll agree we all respond differently to different training. I am a firm believer that HIIT cardio is far more effective at burning and keeping fat off with less time wasted. I have seen many examples of this in my life. My gf fought me on this for years and ran 40+ miles per week. Now she does HIIT running 2x per week for 20-25 minutes. She is less than 8%bf year round since. There's pics in my gallery.
 
Synpax...

maybe we should all just lay on the couch all day to burn fat since close to 100% of our calories burned would be fat then. If you think that the amount of energy and what types of energy burned during exercise is what matters, you are mistaken. Training may take an hour of your day, what about the other 23? It comes to total calories burned and only that matters in relation to your BMR. If you aren't burning more calories than you are eating, you aren't going to lose weight. Nothing comes easy. Eat well and bust your ass training.

Now, there are places for both sprinting and running at 75-85%. Running the latter helps train your body to burn more fat DURING exercise. But like I said, that's only maybe an hour out of your day. What about the other 23? Sprinting burns more calories, and in the end, that is what matters most when it comes to fat loss.
 
aps1087 said:
Synpax...

maybe we should all just lay on the couch all day to burn fat since close to 100% of our calories burned would be fat then. If you think that the amount of energy and what types of energy burned during exercise is what matters, you are mistaken.
Click to expand...

You are a fucking moron.


For the ten zillionth time, there is a threshold at which point your body can no longer metabolize fat and must turn instead to glycogen that is stored in your muscles.

Once you reach that threshold, you are maximizing the amount of fat your body loses. Going beyond it doesn't increase the amount of fat your body metabolizes. It is at it's maximum.

It's similar to driving your car to is maximum natural speed - BEFORE You hit the nitro button.

This is usually at a comfortable, conversational pace.

This is science and is inexcapable regardless of what your personal experience might be telling you. Folks who say otherwise are either not accounting for something (IE - something that involves a needle) or aren't measuring properly.

I think I'm going to scan my VO2 Max test sheet so you can see the chemicals coming out of my mouth at the point where fat use levels off.
 
I hope I can help a bit on this one. I'd like to thank the dudes who said that everyone responds differently to different stimuli. what works for some might not work for others and it might do wonders for a few others

on my own experience, HIIT has the best effect on losing fat and keeping the muscles. I used to do regular aerobics for 30 - 40 mins, 5x a week and I lost fat but also lost (lots) of muscle mass. I recommend regular aerobics to anyone desperate for losing fat but when it comes to my friends who also workout, I recommend HIIT

the simple explanation synpax gave is right. regular aerobics burns fat and sprints glycogen (it hurts when I put it like that). what he's ignoring is that our metabolism is FAR from linear

on regular aerobics, somewhere near the 20th minute your body gets into the fixed state. it is "adapted" to what you're currently doing, fat becomes the main fuel, caloric burn is decreased (optimized if you look at it from the energy conservation point of view) and hell, you can keep on going as long as you want if you control the intensity and the boredom. as soon as you stop what you're doing (lets say, the treadmil) and walk home, your body will quickly get back to burning the regular amount of calories and you'll feel "fresh". keeping your heart rate on the "fat burning zone" during the exercise optimizes fat burn, no doubt about that

on HIIT (sprints, etc..) the work is mainly anaerobic, fat is hardly involved during the exercise. what happens after the workout is the key, your metabolism gets accelerated

if you sum "caloric usage during exercise" with "caloric usage post exercise", HIIT beats the crap outta regular aerobics. with one you burn fat 8 hours, with the other for 40 minutes

I find it interesting you all ignore the hormonal responses! regular aerobics have a catabolic hormonal response (probably the main cause of the muscle loss). HIIT provokes an hormonal response very similar to weight training, anabolic in other words
 
Last edited:
Synpax said:
I think I'm going to scan my VO2 Max test sheet so you can see the chemicals coming out of my mouth at the point where fat use levels off.
Click to expand...

Dude I'd like to see that, I've been considering on doing it
 
ey musclebosun, I aced the physical exams. jan 27th I have to report and check my designation ;)
anyway, getting back to the thread heh

I'm stepping in a muddy area now. if you read further, please understand that there's no such thing as linear metabolism. your body will suck up any energy resource currently (and locally) available. that includes aminoacids (aka muscle catabolism), lactate (lactic acid), fat (mainly glycerol), blood glucose, liver's glycogen stores and yadda yadda

about scanning the chemicals and etc.... like aps1087 said, which energy deposits are used the most isn't that important

reason is, if you deplete (or make use of) your muscle glycogen your body will refill those stores somehow. your blood glucose levels will go down and glucagon is released, liver's glycogen stores are used and hepatic gluconeogenesis is stimulated. lactate, aminoacids and glycerol play the "base" role in gluconeogesis, assuming you're not under heavy physical stress (aerobic metabolism, since lactate is of anaerobic metabolism) that leaves aminoacids and glycerol. the amount of energy derived from fat is greater at low intensity exercises (protein metabolism plays a role of 1% of the energy, if I remember correctly) so that makes me quite sure when saying that at rest, glycerol is "prefered" over aminoacids

ever heard that "insulin stores fat. glucagon burns fat" maximum? its pretty much true. for more info check carbohydrate metabolism, protein metabolism, krebs cycle, take a deep look into gluconeogenesis and check how all of them interact. just don't go nuts


"fat burning" and fat loss are two different things. fat loss is based in calories while fat burning is basically a way to say "stay on that treadmil till you see the grass on the outside grow"

keep your proteins up (1g/lb or 2g/kg) to help muscle maintenance and try to base your fat intake on insaturated fat. cut down on the carbs (major caloric part of most diets) to achieve the desired caloric deficit. also, there's no logic in adding fat if you're trying to lose it so stay away from lots of high glycemic index foods (all that fucking candy)


btw, synpax about your "this is science don't argue against it" attitude, you should know that most things in science aren't 100% correct and understood. specially when it comes down to the metabolism. a quick (and minor) example is why some foods cause a low-glycemic response, no one is sure if its because of a slow carbohydrate entry in the bloodstream or quick removal of carbohydrate from the blood into the muscles. no one is sure if newton's laws should be entirely revised, even after finding several proofs that point flaws in it. science is anything but sure. thats exactly why in the beginning of this post you'll read "I'm stepping in a muddy area now"
 
Can I just say that for the person that started this threat:
Carth..if that is a photo of you then whatever you are doing is working great. I don't think you need to lose anymore fat. You look amazing. Not sure how much leaner you want to get but I think you look perfect as you are.
 
u can get the hcl version of ephedrine which in my opinion works so much better. its pharma grade. add caffine and any cardio you wil lose weight.
 
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