What do you think of my routine (mods, please dont move this)

[biteme]

well....sort of ....bis and tris get 9-10 sets each

Has there ever been an unbiased scientific study that shows how many sets are optimal. There seems to be so many workout theories, what works for one may not work for another due to various factors such as percentage of muscle fiber type.

 

[The Shadow]

no...but I know how many work best for me.....that and I have personally trained over 200 people over the past few years and that seems to be the maximum number of sets w.o overtraining.

 

[vinylgroover]

That's alot of sets.

I never do more than 12 for larger bodyparts, 7-9 for smaller bodyparts.

Why so much shoulder work.

By including deadlifts, you'll be able to eliminate some of the other more unproductive exercises.

 

[JohnyJuice]

hmm. alot of dudes i used to workout with used to do around 16-20 sets per excercise. So much shoulder work because there are many aspects of the shoulder, that arent used when doing other excercies. Ex: presses doesnt work rear. traps arent hit hard with really anything, etc.

 

[AAP]

TOO MANY SETS!!!!

Says who?

Muscles grow because training stimulates the muscles by small microscopic muscle tears and damage. With a good diet, the body builds itself back up stronger to withstand future stimulation. Correct? In a nutshell training=stimulation=damage. Correct? By training, you are causing self inflicted damage upon the muscle. Correct? Too much damage or not enough nutrition/recovery and the muscle will not heal. (Over training) Correct? Not enough damage (stimulation/training) to the muscle will produce minimal to zero results. Correct?

So the $64,000 question and the ideal that robs most trainees of their gains is.... What number of sets is the best? The answer of course is that set number are irrelevant. It is the amount of training/stimulation/damage a muscle receives that is more important than counting sets.

Just to illustrate my point... what number of sets will produce the best gains for chest? 4 sets or 40 sets? Do 4 sets Dorian style with balls to the wall intensity and forced reps, negatives and you will see results. Does this mean that the other system of volume training does not work? Do 40 sets Dillett style with low to moderate intensity and you will still see gains. Does this mean that Dorians modified heavy duty system does not work? Now.... what if you did 40 sets with Dorian intensity - if possible? What happens? You overtrain and shrink. Or do 4 sets with Dillett intensity and what happens? Nothing. Why is this? In one case, you receive too much damage for the muscle to compensate for. In the other case, you do not do enough sets with enough intensity to damage the muscle and end up wasting your time.

So is 19 sets for upper back too much or not enough? I would say it is just right if you do one very hard set to absolute failure on each exercise (4 exercises) and then the other 2-3 sets as contract/pump sets to push blood in and expand it. You can chase the pump even on sets consisting of low reps like 6. Of course, it is probably a given that - like most eager trainees - he is carrying each set to muscle failure. In that case, 19 sets are too much.

The big question he has to ask himself is "When should this stimulation to my muscles end?" Haney always said Stimulate, Don't Annilihate. If you are going through tender joints and tendons, low energy, lack of enthusiam then you are stimulating the muscle too much beyond it's recovery limitations. Limitations that are set first by DIET, second by RECOVERY and last by GENETICS. Don't be fooled, the first two (diet and recovery) are why 90% of trainees blame the third (genetics) for their lack of gains.

What you need to do is throw out all that garbage in your head that Joe Weider and fitness mags espouse each month. After a while, it is all generic anyway. If you look at the training routine for Mr.XXX of 2002, you can see that Mr.XXX of 1985 was doing the same thing. If it worked like they said it did, the world would be full of people that size.

Just start listening to your body. It will tell you when it is time to go. You just have to make your ego shut up long enough for you to listen and hear it. One method that was taught to me long ago that I have only met 1-2 other people who know about is a training principle called 60 reps. You go into a gym and do 60 reps for whatever bodypart you are training. You do as many sets and exercises as it takes to get to 60 reps. You do two warmups and then you start counting reps. Make each rep count. You can do 6 sets of 10 reps or you can do 30 sets of two reps. This will force you to start listening to your body. If you get to rep #45 and have not put enough effort into it.. you KNOW you have 15 reps left to bust your ass on. On the other side of the coin, if you go in and within 20 reps you have hammered that muscle hard, then you know you have 40 reps left to chase a pump with. Sounds stupid, but it works.

 

[The Shadow]

if you include traps....thats not so many sets

 

[AAP]

Has there ever been an unbiased scientific study that shows how many sets are optimal. There seems to be so many workout theories, what works for one may not work for another due to various factors such as percentage of muscle fiber type.

I just answered that.

 

[vinylgroover]

hmm. alot of dudes i used to workout with used to do around 16-20 sets per excercise. So much shoulder work because there are many aspects of the shoulder, that arent used when doing other excercies. Ex: presses doesnt work rear. traps arent hit hard with really anything, etc.

I don't know. I've never done any specific trap training, yet i have traps. I've never done any specific rear delt training yet i have rear delts. Point is, IMO if you stick with compounds exercises and multi-joint movements, all bodyparts will grow.

Include deadlifts, and you'll be sore from your traps to your calves.

 

[The Shadow]

AAP - that article is all fine and well......but for most trainees - 20 sets per bodypart are too many.

60 reps per bodypart is assinine,

I guarantee that 60 one rep maxes, compensating for the slight drop in weight, is NOT an ideal way to train.

Neither is doing 60 reps with a 100rm weight.

60 reps on a 2/4 tempo = 360 seconds or six minutes of TUT.

That might be overtraining to you and undertraining to me.....it still falls back to volume whether it be counting reps or sets or both.

The article mentions 19 setsfor back being too much if going to failure.....my question is why would you NOT go to failure on each set?

 

[The Shadow]

AAP - that is hardly a scientific study......lol