Vegetarian Bodybuillding

[[email protected]]

Hello,
My son,age almost 19 is trying to gain lean muscle. He is 6' 1" and weighs 171, prob with a 7-8% bodyfat. Lean,good 6 pack etc. Been lifting since he was 14 and has a very clasic natural physique - narrow hips wide shoulders good muscle shape more of a potential Frank Zane/Steve Reeves type of body. His training is solid - now on a progressive 5x5 routine I got off of this site with a weight progression built in to it. The challange is his diet. He is now and has been for a little over a year a lacto/ovo Vegetarian.He drinks protein drinks and likes vege patties and lots of vegetables. He trys to eat very clean and avoids junk food because he is deathly afraid of getting fat. He has the looks and is interested in doing some modeling for some extra cash for college.
He has trouble getting enough calories to put on muscular weight.I would like to hear from some of the more experienced people including Needto about how many calories a day he should be eating ,and how much protien to gain some lean muscle as well as ideas on doing it on a vegetarian diet. He would like to add 10-15-20 lbs of muscle , get some bigger guns,and remain lean or even get leaner. I say he may need to sacrafice a few lbs of fat while putting on muscle ,then loose it again. Any other vegetarians out there overcome this problem? Thanks! BTW steroids -legal or otherwise are not an option.

 

[heavydutyhit]

A bit more info is needed. A very detailed description of his weekly activity level. How many times a week does he lift, do cardio, ect. Does he play any sports? If so how often. Does he have a job that requires a high amount of physical activity such as construction, moving heavy boxes, ect., or does he have a desk job. Any physical hobbies that would expend a decent amount of calories we need to be aware of?

It is very important to know all of these factors when calculating a caloric intake for someone. Post up this info and i will lay it all down for you.

 

[[email protected]]

A bit more info is needed. A very detailed description of his weekly activity level. How many times a week does he lift, do cardio, ect. Does he play any sports? If so how often. Does he have a job that requires a high amount of physical activity such as construction, moving heavy boxes, ect., or does he have a desk job. Any physical hobbies that would expend a decent amount of calories we need to be aware of?

It is very important to know all of these factors when calculating a caloric intake for someone. Post up this info and i will lay it all down for you.

OK, thanks for the help.
He will be coming home from college for the summer.An actor and musician. He will be getting a job and probably something physical vs a desk type job.He is generally active when he's home ,not with a specific sport other than weight training, but imprompto activities( friends come by - "lets go...swimming,hiking,play baseball, practice music/bass guitar etc") Stays up late. likes to do cardio but I will encourage him to limit some of it while he is trying to gain muscle weight.Weight routine is 5x5 single progression via the 5x5 calculator from this site.3x a week, usually 3 basic excersizes per workout @5x5 and some days a couple of others added for like 3x8 for arms as well as some ab work.He takes lifting seriously and trains hard and regularly.Has done some MMA training but not currently.Pretty average active 18 - 19 yo.
He found when he went to veg eating and everything else the same he lost weight,mostly fat but also size. He continues to get stronger and strives to increase his weights lifted. He likes looking lean and defined, just wants to be bigger/stronger and more muscular.

 

[needtogetaas]

Proteins are made up of smaller units called amino acids. There are about 20 different amino acids, eight of which must be present in the diet. These are the essential amino acids. Unlike animal proteins, plant proteins may not contain all the essential amino acids in the necessary proportions. However, a varied vegetarian diet means a mixture of proteins are consumed, the amino acids in one protein compensating for the deficiencies of another.

Structure & Functions

Proteins are highly complex molecules comprised of linked amino acids. Amino acids are simple compounds containing carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and occasionally sulphur. There are about 20 different amino acids commonly found in plant and animal proteins. Amino acids link together to form chains called peptides. A typical protein may contain 500 or more amino acids. Each protein has it's own unique number and sequence of amino acids which determines it's particular structure and function.

Proteins are broken down into their constituent amino acids during digestion which are then absorbed and used to make new proteins in the body. Certain amino acids can be made by the human body. However, the essential amino acids cannot be made and so they must be supplied in the diet. The eight essential amino acids required by humans are: leucine, isoleucine, valine, threonine, methionine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, and lysine. For children, histidine is also considered to be an essential amino acid.

Proteins are essential for growth and repair. They play a crucial role in virtually all biological processes in the body. All enzymes are proteins and are vital for the body's metabolism. Muscle contraction, immune protection, and the transmission of nerve impulses are all dependent on proteins. Proteins in skin and bone provide structural support. Many hormones are proteins. Protein can also provide a source of energy. Generally the body uses carbohydrate and fat for energy but when there is excess dietary protein or inadequate dietary fat and carbohydrate, protein is used. Excess protein may also be converted to fat and stored.

Dietary Sources

Most foods contain at least some protein. Good sources of protein for vegetarians include nuts and seeds, pulses, soya products (tofu, soya milk and textured soya protein such as soya mince), cereals (wheat, oats, and rice), free-range eggs and some dairy products (milk, cheese and yoghurt).

Different foods contain different proteins, each with their own unique amino acid composition. The proportions of essential amino acids in foods may differ from the proportions needed by the body to make proteins. The proportion of each of the essential amino acids in foods containing protein determines the quality of that protein. Dietary proteins with all the essential amino acids in the proportions required by the body are said to be a high quality protein. If the protein is low in one or more of the essential amino acids the protein is of a lower quality. The amino acid that is in shortest supply is called the limiting amino acid.

Protein quality is usually defined according to the amino acid pattern of egg protein, which is regarded as the ideal. As such, it is not surprising that animal proteins, such as meat, milk and cheese tend to be of a higher protein quality than plant proteins. This is why plant proteins are sometimes referred to as low quality proteins. Many plant proteins are low in one of the essential amino acids. For instance, grains tend to be short of lysine whilst pulses are short of methionine. This does not mean that vegetarians or vegans go short on essential amino acids. Combining plant proteins, such as a grain with a pulse, leads to a high quality protein which is just as good, and in some cases better, than protein from animal foods. Soya is a high quality protein on its own which can be regarded as equal to meat protein.

The limiting amino acid tends to be different in different proteins. This means when two different foods are combined, the amino acids in one protein can compensate for the one lacking in the other. This is known as protein complementing. Vegetarians and vegans eating a well-balanced diet based on grains, pulses, seeds, nuts and vegetables will be consuming a mixture of proteins that complement one another naturally without requiring any planning. Beans on toast, cheese or peanut butter sandwich, muesli with milk (soya or cow's), and rice with peas or beans are all common examples of protein complementing.

Previously, it has been thought that protein complementing needed to occur within a single meal. However, it is now known that this is not necessary as the body keeps a short-term store of the essential amino acids. A well-balanced vegetarian or vegan will easily supply all the protein and essential amino acids needed by the body.

If he is ok with eating egg protein then he is in the gold too. Its the best form of protein you can eat. So have him drink egg protein a few times a day. Eat a huge verity of veggies from different types of beans to brockily. Also to help bring cal count up he can eat lots of different kinds of nuts. Also sun flower seeds,olives,and avocados are very dense in cals.

It just takes a little more thinking thats all.

 

[fortunatesun]

Bill Pearl is the most famous lacto-ovo bodybuilder. He's written several well regarded books that might be of interest. He has a website though there's nothing very specific:

Basic Nutrition by Bill Pearl - Bill Pearl Enterprises, Inc.

I also have a useful link that was posted on this forum about six years ago. It has charts breaking down the nutrient contents of various foods of interest although it doesn't have the specific amino acid profiles needto was discussing:

Lowcarb Vegetarian Protein Sources

There's an interview with John Berardi over at T-Nation where he talks about this issue:

TMUSCLE.com | Can Vegetarians Build Muscle?

Again, it might not be anything very specific to your needs but his website has an article section that is 'nutrient dense' in terms of understanding basic bodybuilding nutritional concepts and how to plan a suitable eating strategy:

John Berardi - Nutrition Articles

 

[needtogetaas]

Good shit. I love one man helping another.

 

[joe d]

all he needs to do is to start adding cals protein, carbs, fat. he should already have his balance down. so just raise then by maybe 15% and see how that goes. the food chioces are verry limited for him. if he will eat and drink them his best choices are milk and eggs for protein. if he already has a foundation dont start from scratch with his diet just inhance what he already has. we cant do anything other than to provide a rough estimate on his needs.