TRT for normal test levels???

[roostersouth]

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. Two weeks ago I turned 41 and, based on the recommendation of a friend, decided to go to an anti aging clinic to get some bloodwork done and see about the possibility of HRT. My reasons: the usual complaints of aging: low libido, weak erections, general fatigue, poorer workouts, and terrible insomnia, a decrease in the ability to gain lean muscle, and steady gains of fat around my midsection.

Some background: I have always been very active and have been an avid weight lifter for 20+ years. I run 12 miles a week. I'm 6'1 and average around 200lbs. That used to be very lean muscle, but although my diet and discipline in the gym has gotten more rigorous, it's not all lean muscle weight anymore. Over ten years ago I did a cycle of test cyp @ 600mg/week for 12 weeks. Had incredible results and ended up at 235lbs of lean muscle. Since then I've become more wholistic in my ideology, steering away from any sort of enhancers, eating paleo, etc.

Anyway, test levels from the blood test came back at 631 ng/dL total test, 11.4 pg/mL free test. According to my reading, these levels are normal and possibly even higher than the average 41 year old male. However, the doctor recommended putting me on 100mg test cyp a week because he said my levels are not optimal.

So I'm posting here today hoping to find someone else who also had "normal" test levels but decided to get on TRT. And I'd like to know what sort of benefits I can expect at such a low dose (relative to the cycle I did). Any input is greatly appreciated and sorry for the long post.

 

[Zyglamail]

With a test level like yours I would hold off on TRT and pursue other avenues. 100mg/wk test is likely only going to replace your current test levels and not give you much more. So why shut yourself down for little test gain? Spend the money on improving other areas of health and you may even find your natty test levels will increase even more.

Your insomnia is likely indicator your cortisol levels are jacked up, likely due to adrenal fatigue. Increased cortisol levels could also account for the spare tire you just cant get rid of. There are a lot of naturopaths etc that treat adrenal fatigue but it can be an expensive and time consuming process and the results can vary. Like you I had horrible sleep patterns, even when taking inositol, ZMA and melatonin before bed. As crazy as this sounds "earthing" while I sleep has made all the difference in the world.

Next, as we get older you may find your thyroid isnt performing as well as it should, hell most people in the modern world have underperforming thyroids as can be seen by the number of people who eat well and exercise but still cant lose weight. Iodine supplementation made a huge difference for me and my ability to trim down.

Lastly, a couple other nutrients to consider, especially since you are on a paleo diet. Paleo eaters often dont eat citrus fruits so have limited potassium and vit C intake. Your should be getting 4700mg of potassium a day. The RDA/RDI for vitamin C is a total joke and for optimal healing and regeneration of collagen based tissues you should be getting 3g of vit c daily.

 

[roostersouth]

Zyglamail--Thanks for the response. Ideologically, I'd like to pursue more natural remedies to my woes, but selfishly Id love to be doing another cycle again and making some gains in the gym and feeling more powerful sexually. Do you really think that 100mg/week wouldn't provide any of these benefits, like a coasting cycle? Also, I do take a good multivitamin for the potassium and vitamin intake.

 

[Zyglamail]

Zyglamail--Thanks for the response. Ideologically, I'd like to pursue more natural remedies to my woes, but selfishly Id love to be doing another cycle again and making some gains in the gym and feeling more powerful sexually. Do you really think that 100mg/week wouldn't provide any of these benefits, like a coasting cycle?

7 days after a 100mg test injection along with a midweek 700IU HCG injection puts me at like a test level of 770. That being what it is, I think it would be a very small step up in test levels for you and in the process could possibly hamper your future test levels should you opt to not stay on.

Also, I do take a good multivitamin for the potassium and vitamin intake.

Please dont take this wrong but your statement above is glaring proof that you are clearly snowed by the FDA or what ever governing bodies resides over you and have little knowledge about the importance of vitamins and minerals.

I have talked to a large number of people about their various vitamin/mineral/amino intakes and only 1 has been anywhere near to the recommended 4700mg potassium intake and that was due to heavy supplementation. I would wager your milti vit has 99mg potassium at most, thats a far cry from 4700mg.

If it has any iodine at all its likely less than 100mcg when there is some pretty compelling research showing we need 6-12mg daily.

It also likely has less than 100mg vit C which is 1/30th of the amount I recommended.

Drugs are only going to be as effective as the underlying limitations allow it to be. Bumping your test even 200 points is NOT going to solve your problems. In all actuality its likely going to make them worse.

You say you want to stick with natural remedies but also want to do another cycle. The key to getting the most out of your cycle, improving your list of symptoms, preventing injury etc is all the same thing and boils down to nutrient deficiencies.

Taking test is only going to increase the demands on your system for the nutrients you are already clearly lacking and in the short term may make you feel better but in the long run is just going to worsen all of your existing systems.

People need to stop trying to building houses on sand and concentrate on a good foundation.

 

[roostersouth]

Zyg, thanks again for your thoughtful reply. This is why I joined the forum. I would like to do another cycle--I'm just not in a place where I would have access to any that I trust. That's why I'm thinking through this opportunity and trying to educate myself the best I can to make the most out of it--which might mean passing it up altogether (and that's certainly the direction I'm leaning in right now). I guess if I want to do another cycle I need to approach this in another way....

Most importantly--I don't want to build a house on sand and am taking your nutrition advice very seriously and will pay more attention to my intake and am certainly willing to add more supplementation. Turning 41 has been sort of hard for me and I want to do all I can to hold onto my youth and physique as much as I can. Sorry for the ignorant questions. The help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Zyglamail]

Turning 41 has been sort of hard for me and I want to do all I can to hold onto my youth and physique as much as I can. Sorry for the ignorant questions. The help is greatly appreciated.

Ive got a few years on you and believe me, I wish I had my current knowledge 20 years ago. As things sit, I have my own host of issues I am trying to work through with proper supplementation. Its a slow process for many reasons but I am noticing some pretty significant changes in body composition and performance in the gym in a relatively short amount of time.

There are a lot of misconceptions about nutrition, one being you can get everything you need from your diet but you cant. Todays soils are too depleted and most peoples diets are too limiting.

Next, people think just taking the recommended daily allowance is all that needed. In some cases, like potassium, the RDA (ie 4700mg)is actually a pretty good number to strive for but in many other cases its not even close to whats needed.

For example look at iodine, the rda is like 150mcg. Thats the bare minimum to keep a person from getting goiter but it does not take into account the necessity of iodine for the rest of the body. Read all of the info here OPTIMOX RESEARCH INFORMATION for some compelling data showing why we need more iodine and why just taking what you think you need (at least to start) is not going to help.

Vitamin C is another nutrient so often overlooked for good health. Its a powerful antioxidant and our government says you should not take more than 2000mg a day. Vit C is crucial for collagen creation among other things, arteries, joints, tendons, ligaments are all made from collagen. Athletic people cause more damage to all this tissue and without Vit C in adequate doses deterioration ensues. Vit C also has a short half life so multiple doses should be taken over the course of the day (or liposomal C should be used).

The body has a specific need for many nutrients and when that need is not met the bodies internal stores get depleted and your body basically uses whats taken in daily and some critical functions suffer. In order to restore the cellular levels of various nutrients you need to take MORE than what the body needs so there is ample for the body to use for its daily functions and excess to go toward replenishing stores.

This is the reason that so many people fail to "feel" a benefit from a nutrient and in turn dont place much value on them. They arent taking enough to replenish stores which in turn provides optimal function. They simply take enough to meet daily needs.

Some of the worlds top professional trainers wont even begin a training program until a client has gone through a full blown battery of tests and spent 3-6 months going through a "loading phase" where they take large doses of deficient nutrients to bring the bodies levels to an optimal state.

This is done because a client paying top dollar expects top results and they wont get them if the body is not in a position to acheive the best results. The trainers reputation and future are on the line and the foundational nutrition is so important and can make or break their success even with the best training program in the world.