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To crunch or not to crunch???

SnipersGirl

New member
Just wanted some feedback on the value of doing abs (from an aesthetic standpoint)... Obviously working any muscle strengthens it, but do you think working abs makes them look better? I have gone through phases in which I have worked my abs furiously (usually to help lower back issues), but mostly I don't bother... No matter what, they seem to always look the same and I was just wondering if I was the only one...

40499a44-86d8-4e5f.jpg


Thanks in advance for your feedback!
 
Just wanted some feedback on the value of doing abs (from an aesthetic standpoint)... Obviously working any muscle strengthens it, but do you think working abs makes them look better? I have gone through phases in which I have worked my abs furiously (usually to help lower back issues), but mostly I don't bother... No matter what, they seem to always look the same and I was just wondering if I was the only one...

40499a44-86d8-4e5f.jpg


Thanks in advance for your feedback!

.....that is the question. Ha. I have the same question so I'm looking forward to hearing some good answers. I'm just curious...how did you lean out? How did you get your arms and belly LEAN? I'm about to post my pics.
 
Omg I have been waiting for your pics for what seems like forever!!! I can't wait!!!

On a side note I have found that when I lift heavier, I lean out more... Unfortunately, my diet really never changes... I can't seem to say no to junk food :(
 
Thass a nice tummy hunny!
Basically crunches and ab work in general is a waste of time. And for you ladies it will actually thicken your waist!
Check out J Lo....before she did her stomach routine she had a nice thin sexy waist line, but you can clearly see the diff after her stomach routine with her thick waist.
Island girl recommended that you ladies lift with a belt for this very reason. On her at least that helped keep her waid small.
As you are doing dead lifts and squats with the BBL you are working the hell out of your core. That is really all you need. Always remember to see abs its all about diet.
You all have em but if you wanna see em you have to diet down, same as us boys. Go back and check out the pics that jjtt (I think) posted.
 
Omg I have been waiting for your pics for what seems like forever!!! I can't wait!!!

On a side note I have found that when I lift heavier, I lean out more... Unfortunately, my diet really never changes... I can't seem to say no to junk food :(

Your right snipers, lifting heavy will indeed burn more cals then cardio will anyday. The reason is that heavy lifting will continue to burn cals long after you are done working out. Cardio cannot do that. As soon as you are done with cardio the cal burn stops too.
 
I do some direct ab work once or twice a week but stay away from any of the oblique stuff for the same reason Zed mentioned. It will thicken the waist. There's that famous saying...Abs are made in the kitchen. ;)
 
Just wanted some feedback on the value of doing abs (from an aesthetic standpoint)... Obviously working any muscle strengthens it, but do you think working abs makes them look better? I have gone through phases in which I have worked my abs furiously (usually to help lower back issues), but mostly I don't bother... No matter what, they seem to always look the same and I was just wondering if I was the only one...

40499a44-86d8-4e5f.jpg


Thanks in advance for your feedback!

To be honest chic I don't do direct ab work because most of the work in abs is diet to how much work you put them through ..though they do look great I'm going to hit them last when i have everything else how I want ...Looking at your pic though you have dam good tummy though wish mine was like that lol....:)
 
To be honest chic I don't do direct ab work because most of the work in abs is diet to how much work you put them through ..though they do look great I'm going to hit them last when i have everything else how I want ...Looking at your pic though you have dam good tummy though wish mine was like that lol....:)

Maybe that's why my waist stays thick. I work tons of abs. I will post a stomach pic too. No more ab work for me.
 
Maybe that's why my waist stays thick. I work tons of abs. I will post a stomach pic too. No more ab work for me.

I have the thick waist too I would die for a waist like snipers lol.


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Lol you ladies are crazy... But you sure do make me feel good about myself! ;)

At least now I can take abs off my 'To Do' list FOREVER!!! Lol

Thanks again for being amazing!
 
Well that's comforting to know that I can stop stressing over not committing to doing abs!!! :) question though- I do lift heavy. Like 225lb bench, 215 lb deadlift, etc. and bc I lift heavier, I find that my rests between sets are one or two minutes. Is that ok when thinking about caloric/fat burn or should I be sucking it up and lifting heavily but also faster?
 
Well that's comforting to know that I can stop stressing over not committing to doing abs!!! :) question though- I do lift heavy. Like 225lb bench, 215 lb deadlift, etc. and bc I lift heavier, I find that my rests between sets are one or two minutes. Is that ok when thinking about caloric/fat burn or should I be sucking it up and lifting heavily but also faster?

Sg yeah crazy We Are lol they say theres a fine line between insanity and genius I would love to think they were right but nope not quite lmao .

That's a good question Fc one I've wondered but couldn't think how to put into words lol and wow you have some great weights going on too there so strong ladies on here I love that.


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Well that's comforting to know that I can stop stressing over not committing to doing abs!!! :) question though- I do lift heavy. Like 225lb bench, 215 lb deadlift, etc. and bc I lift heavier, I find that my rests between sets are one or two minutes. Is that ok when thinking about caloric/fat burn or should I be sucking it up and lifting heavily but also faster?
Some of that depends on the type of program that you are using. For instance on a typical 5x5 it is of no concern, because these are resistance loading low volume high intensityprograms and are usually the programs that get the best results with the most peeps.

I think where this is supposed to matter more is in something like an 8x8, high volume, high intensity. In order to maintain the intensity (because of lighter weights) in this program the between set breaks are kept very short. This is for a pretty advanced lifter tho. IDK how well these work. For me at my age, 50 its just too dam much.
I get gr8 results from low volume high intensity workouts and I can recover from them adequatly.
If you think the 8x8 is something you wanna try FC give it a shot and let us know.
 
8 Sets of 8
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]During his time, Vince Gironda was credited with turning out more Mr. America winners than any trainer in the sports history. True, Vince was perhaps one of the most, if not the most, controversial person ever in the field of bodybuilding. Some of his ideas on training, nutrition, and supplements were viewed as outright ridiculous. Yet years later, many leading authorities have confirmed much of what Vince stated thirty or so years ago and have proven much of what he said as fact today. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]People tend to love or hate Vince. In either case, each side either built him up larger than life or cut him to the bone. In reality, Vince was deserving of both, but only to a certain extent. Vince, as with all high profile people, was neither as bad as those that disliked him said he was nor as good as those that loved him said he was. My personal relationship with Vince was middle of the road. I felt the sting of his sharp tongue on occasion and I was also the recipient of his goodwill and kindness. I liked Vince, respected him, and wanted to know what he had to say about things. I will be the first to admit I did not follow everything he said but I would never tell him that, I did however listen to all he said. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]I believe one of Vince’s favorite routines for the advanced bodybuilder was the 8 sets of 8 reps program. Vince was convinced this was the best routine for maximizing muscle growth in the shortest possible amount of time. It is designed to rapidly build muscle while at the same time reduce body fat. As all advanced trainers know, either one of these 4 [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]is a difficult thing to do by itself, let alone simultaneously. The 8 x 8 is also a wonderful program to follow when you hit a sticking point and need to shock muscles into a new growth pattern, whether it is an individual muscle or your entire body. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]I have seen and heard many variations on Vince’s 8 sets of 8 routine. Some suggesting performing 8 x 8 on each movement; others selecting two movements and performing 4 sets of each for a total of 8 sets. Some have suggested using three or four movements per body part. Some recommend only one movement per body part. I even read one article that stated Vince prescribed performing two movements for the chest and back, three movements for the legs, and one movement for all other body parts. Others have advised the routine be followed 3 days on and 3 days off. Some suggest following the program for 3 weeks then taking 1 week off. Some claim you are to train once per day, some twice per day and still others, three times per day. Who’s right? Which way is the real 8 x 8 to be followed? As I stated, I have seen and heard almost every variation you can think of being associated with the 8 x 8, those listed as well as others and still, I am sure, some I have not heard of. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]I can only tell you what I was told. I am not trying to suggest Vince did not advise some of or even all of the above, perhaps even other variations I did not list. Knowing Vince, he modified almost everything based on the individual and the results desired so, I can see him prescribing what I was told as well as all of the above. Vince would experiment with not only exercises, nutrition, and supplements but also people as well. He would use himself and others to test his ideas. Besides, if Vince was around today and he thought his 8 x 8 routine was causing a controversy or confusion, boy would he add more wood to the fire… he would love it. [/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
Something else you may wanna try FC is 10x3.
I use this when I get stuck. I also swap it in and out with 5x5, outside of a strict 5x5 program.
But just today I did a straight 8x8 on my squats, like this.
I did 5x5@225. Then I added on 8x8@135. With my knee issues I have to go very slowly on squats and adding weight, so I am working on more volume and adding pounds slowly.
It just depends on how you can and wanna go. The 10x3 can def be much more intense-big weights low volume. But I just wanted to give the straight 8x8 a few trys and see what happens with me.
If you do 10x3 it is straight sets, meaning that you use one weight. If you get all 10 sets of three in then you add weight next time. If not then you continue to shoot for the full 10x3. You could do the 8x8 the same way I would think and get pretty good results.
Ok I rode this horse to death so thats all!
 
Well that's comforting to know that I can stop stressing over not committing to doing abs!!! :) question though- I do lift heavy. Like 225lb bench, 215 lb deadlift, etc. and bc I lift heavier, I find that my rests between sets are one or two minutes. Is that ok when thinking about caloric/fat burn or should I be sucking it up and lifting heavily but also faster?

I think the rest time is important when lifting heavy so as to preserve form and prevent injury.

Great numbers too! :)
 
Thanks, zed! I tried to incorporate some 5x5 on leg day and did well on leg presses but get tired after that fifth set and I can only get 3 or 4 sets on squats. But I load up on weight as much as I can and that seems to work with legs coz they've grown!
 
Thanks, zed! I tried to incorporate some 5x5 on leg day and did well on leg presses but get tired after that fifth set and I can only get 3 or 4 sets on squats. But I load up on weight as much as I can and that seems to work with legs coz they've grown!

You all have some great info on here! Fc you should be proud of those numbers!! You gals are all so strong! Such a motivation! Keep up the great work!
 
Thanks, zed!
Very welcome FC!
I tried to incorporate some 5x5 on leg day and did well on leg presses but get tired after that fifth set and I can only get 3 or 4 sets on squats.
Sounds like your backwards on this chika. Always do squats first. Those are the BIG MONEY for anybodies legs.(actually from your ankles to your shoulder blades..) Then on your leg press give this a try,
Very light weight, 3x20, feet narrow, med, wide.
Its an ass blaster let me tell you, but you will get outstanding results from it. High reps on leg press do wonders, really it amazes peeps as to how well it works.
But I load up on weight as much as I can and that seems to work with legs coz they've grown!
If what your doing works.........
I am merrily providing suggestions, you do what works for you sista.
Best regards.:supercool
 
If what your doing works.........
I am merrily providing suggestions, you do what works for you sista.
Best regards.:supercool

I leg press first coz squatting hurts too bad to start. My hips and knees need the leg press to warm them up first. I've tried, several times, to squat first and it never works out. Oh well! :)
 
OK for your squat warm up try this.
Bike for 10 min @ 100-120 BPM.
Then catch your breath and.....
Do 5 sets of 12 ass to grass squats @ just bod weight.
Then get under the bar and work your way up to your work sets in 3 or 4 steps.
The ass to grass body weight squats should make a huge diff for you.
Give it a try and let us know how it works out for you.
 
Crunches are useless. Everybody really has a six pack, but not everybody can see it! You can only see abdominal definition with a low body fat percentage so it all boils down to having a clean diet. And by the way any compound workout like deadlifts/squats/pull ups builds your abdominal muscles--not crunches!
 
Your right snipers, lifting heavy will indeed burn more cals then cardio will anyday. The reason is that heavy lifting will continue to burn cals long after you are done working out. Cardio cannot do that. As soon as you are done with cardio the cal burn stops too.

THANK YOU for mentioning that! Totally agree.
Also, cardio makes me starve! What's the use of a treadmill to lose fat if I'd just go home and eat the house anyway..?
 
LOL yep^^^
 
crunches are absolutely NOT useless. They're a very useful exercise in properly strengthening the core. I'd add though that if one wishes to recontour the midsection, training the rectus abs isn't enough. Gotta blast those transverse abs as well and crunches don't activate them very effectively. Hardcore vacuuming is indispensable. I'm at the point now where I'm down on all fours with a 1 pound plate duct taped to my ab wall while vacuuming. My entire midsection is completely concave now even when totally relaxed.
 
crunches are absolutely NOT useless. They're a very useful exercise in properly strengthening the core. I'd add though that if one wishes to recontour the midsection, training the rectus abs isn't enough. Gotta blast those transverse abs as well and crunches don't activate them very effectively. Hardcore vacuuming is indispensable. I'm at the point now where I'm down on all fours with a 1 pound plate duct taped to my ab wall while vacuuming. My entire midsection is completely concave now even when totally relaxed.

Hey RW glad to have you back havnt heard from you for a while hope all is well

Donna


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I do abs every day after my routines. One day its crunches. Nothing crazy. Two sets to twenty. The next its hanging leg raises. Same stuff. The third day its the swedish ball. Two sets to failure. Since I have been doing them that way I have had abs no matter what I weighed in at. Obviously at 278 they sucked but you could see four. At 237 now I can see six to eight just standing their. At 225 they are peeled to high hell. I like finishing off my routine with light abs.
 
278 son! Unholy hell bro!
 
Diet diet diet for the abs

But I still do ab work to keep the metabolism humming on days I'm not training legs
 
I do abs every day after my routines. One day its crunches. Nothing crazy. Two sets to twenty. The next its hanging leg raises. Same stuff. The third day its the swedish ball. Two sets to failure. Since I have been doing them that way I have had abs no matter what I weighed in at. Obviously at 278 they sucked but you could see four. At 237 now I can see six to eight just standing their. At 225 they are peeled to high hell. I like finishing off my routine with light abs.

Show us the results ;p
 
You guys are the best. Thanks for the kind words. My feeling has always been to train them no matter if I am really lean or not. That way they are already there when I do lean out.
I only do what I listed earlier in the thread. I never add weight. I am afraid of making my waist bigger.
My goal for this summer is to eat more complex carbs so I have more fullness while being lean. Time will tell.
 
Um.... well... i am going to ask that no one else post pics of their abs til i go get some (abs that is haha) lol i may never eat another dozen red velvet cupcakes again!

What would i do without you guys to motivate me?!?!? :D
 
Slat, I want nice big defined six pack lumps like you. You don't do any weighted work? Is it genetic or did you develop that with just the routine you mentioned?

Also, I'm curious about your results with every day versus every other day... I have heard varying arguments about this
 
I can't see the abs in question on my iPhone. I will be checking them out on my laptop next time I'm on!!
 
Slat, I want nice big defined six pack lumps like you. You don't do any weighted work? Is it genetic or did you develop that with just the routine you mentioned?

Also, I'm curious about your results with every day versus every other day... I have heard varying arguments about this

No wieghts ever. Definately not genetic.
I don't think working them every day is a big deal. What is the worst that happens? They stop growing? In that case you just wind up with a rock solid 8 pack.
My ex does the same workout routine every single day twice a day! She barely eats. She is shredded. More so than fitness and figure girls and she looks like that 24/7/365. Her muscles are rock solid too. 100% natural! I think sometimes people rely WAY too much on science. Lets face it, every single diet on earth will make you lose weight but the majority of people will say they don't and tell you why. If you want something just work for it. Its the old fashioned way for results!
 
No wieghts ever. Definately not genetic.
I don't think working them every day is a big deal. What is the worst that happens? They stop growing? In that case you just wind up with a rock solid 8 pack.
My ex does the same workout routine every single day twice a day! She barely eats. She is shredded. More so than fitness and figure girls and she looks like that 24/7/365. Her muscles are rock solid too. 100% natural! I think sometimes people rely WAY too much on science. Lets face it, every single diet on earth will make you lose weight but the majority of people will say they don't and tell you why. If you want something just work for it. Its the old fashioned way for results!

I hear you and agree but I have very little fat over my abs and still no really good lumps... I can see all my muscles, they're just really flat. I was thinking weighed abs might help but haven't seen a huge difference.

Suggestions?
 
Try my routine. It seems to work well. Do a full range of motion and keep constant tension.

day 1: crunches. 3 sets to 25 (or to failure if you can't make it to 25)..
day 2: hanging leg raises. 3 sets to 20 (or failure again)
*keep your legs straight. Bring them all the way to eye level. No swinging.
day 3: swedish ball. 3 sets to 20 (or failure again).
*slide all the way back on the ball so that you almost fall on the back of your head. Go below parallel.

Then just repeat.

"I would rather be overtrained than undertrained" -Bruce Lee
*Note he was not talking about weight training but since no weight is added I feel it applies.
 
Try my routine. It seems to work well. Do a full range of motion and keep constant tension.

day 1: crunches. 3 sets to 25 (or to failure if you can't make it to 25)..
day 2: hanging leg raises. 3 sets to 20 (or failure again)
*keep your legs straight. Bring them all the way to eye level. No swinging.
day 3: swedish ball. 3 sets to 20 (or failure again).
*slide all the way back on the ball so that you almost fall on the back of your head. Go below parallel.

Then just repeat.

"I would rather be overtrained than undertrained" -Bruce Lee
*Note he was not talking about weight training but since no weight is added I feel it applies.

U know what? I will. You've seen the "before"... What do you think is a reasonable trial? 30 days? 90?


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Disclaimer: if you take my relationship advice, you get what you pay for....
 
U know what? I will. You've seen the "before"... What do you think is a reasonable trial? 30 days? 90?


Sent from my iPhone using EliteFitness

Disclaimer: if you take my relationship advice, you get what you pay for....

Go by how your body feels. Some days I do four sets with less reps. Some days 3 sets with a ton of reps.
 
Go by how your body feels. Some days I do four sets with less reps. Some days 3 sets with a ton of reps.

Every day, right?


Sent from my iPhone using EliteFitness

Disclaimer: if you take my relationship advice, you get what you pay for....
 
Try my routine. It seems to work well. Do a full range of motion and keep constant tension.

day 1: crunches. 3 sets to 25 (or to failure if you can't make it to 25)..
day 2: hanging leg raises. 3 sets to 20 (or failure again)
*keep your legs straight. Bring them all the way to eye level. No swinging.
day 3: swedish ball. 3 sets to 20 (or failure again).
*slide all the way back on the ball so that you almost fall on the back of your head. Go below parallel.

Then just repeat.

"I would rather be overtrained than undertrained" -Bruce Lee
*Note he was not talking about weight training but since no weight is added I feel it applies.

Ok so I'm feeling short bus slow for a moment..so maybe let's help me out. I tried doing the hanging leg raises and can only do a few that are worth a crap. Is bent leg lifts an alternative until I can be man enough to do straight legs?

Also what do you do with the Swedish ball?
 
Ok so I'm feeling short bus slow for a moment..so maybe let's help me out. I tried doing the hanging leg raises and can only do a few that are worth a crap. Is bent leg lifts an alternative until I can be man enough to do straight legs?

Also what do you do with the Swedish ball?

Start off with straight legs and then go to bent when you can't do them straight. You will build up reps quick.

I do crunches on the ball. My lower back and butt are on the top. I lean all the way back so that it almost launches me across the gym (if you are wondering... it has many times. Including infront of good looking women). I try to get my upper body as close to the floor as possible. When you feel like you are about to lose control that is the spot. You hit everything and get a sick stretch. Then crunch and start over.
 
Slat, are you doing the hanging leg raises from pull-up position or from a captain's chair?

I find it hard not to swing from pull-up position! You think that's mostly shoulder rotator strength?
 
Ok so I'm feeling short bus slow for a moment..so maybe let's help me out. I tried doing the hanging leg raises and can only do a few that are worth a crap. Is bent leg lifts an alternative until I can be man enough to do straight legs?

Also what do you do with the Swedish ball?

PS Jen, I'm so glad you asked about the "Swedish ball" because I would've been doing Russian twists with a medicine ball -- I just assumed Slat had the countries mixed up and was eating "Russian Fish" on cheat day ;)
 
Slat, are you doing the hanging leg raises from pull-up position or from a captain's chair?

I find it hard not to swing from pull-up position! You think that's mostly shoulder rotator strength?

I do both. I am trying to build back up by hanging and the machine one is too short for me. I love the hanging ones because they kick my ass trying to be stable.
 
PS Jen, I'm so glad you asked about the "Swedish ball" because I would've been doing Russian twists with a medicine ball -- I just assumed Slat had the countries mixed up and was eating "Russian Fish" on cheat day ;)

Lol!! Too funny! Yeah I even had to google a Swedish ball. I've just always called them 'the ball'.
 
Start off with straight legs and then go to bent when you can't do them straight. You will build up reps quick.

I do crunches on the ball. My lower back and butt are on the top. I lean all the way back so that it almost launches me across the gym (if you are wondering... it has many times. Including infront of good looking women). I try to get my upper body as close to the floor as possible. When you feel like you are about to lose control that is the spot. You hit everything and get a sick stretch. Then crunch and start over.

You might should post a video of this.
I can see myself easily taking out half the gym attempting this.
 
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