Thoughts on Volume, Frequency, Genetics

[endpoint]

I'm not trying to offend anybody...like the title says, just my thoughts based on what I know and some opinions. sk*...I also haven't forgotten about you, I'm digging around for the study that supports the 48 hour recovery.



Can you elaborate? I've heard those terms before in the context of some IART stuff but I'm still pretty clueless.

-casual

my problem was that you are stating these things like they are facts.....but i am willing to move on.

individualization: you are training a person. A man or woman who has a certain amount of training experience (none-->alot). this person has good qualitys, bad qualitys, strengths weakness, different body type, different muscle fibre make up, different goals.......the list goes on.
any weight training program will have to be modified to suit this indivdual.......not some run of the mill cut and paste routine from muscle mag. not every one will adapt the same.....so their training will have to suit that. Some people can handle higher volume......from, genetics, drugs+restoration meassures, or adaptation

specificity: not every one has the same goals. When you are talking about sports this becomes more obvious. you have to taylor rep ranges, exercises, sets, tempos etc to fit in with the sport.....so that the program you give them will increase thier performance in the desired sport.
Now with the average joe off the street.
There is no way in hell i (myself) would do HST. I will be competing in a weight class the least amount of weight i gain the better (unless it builds my strength equally which wont happen on HST i will need a program for my "sport").
But take a person who wants to get "big" then you would prescribe something like HST.


so when you are giving these general rules you have to take so many things into considerartion. The most important being the indivdual and the goals.

both these topics will effect your training. and your training of others.

 

[casualbb]

lol...fair enough

Disclaimer: The above posts assume the user's goal is maximum hypertrophy, not endurance or neural strength.

-casual

 

[casualbb]

Here we go, Bryan (HST founder) helped me locate the appropriate studies.

my problem was that you are stating these things like they are facts

Here's why:

MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE. The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
Can J Appl Physiol. 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6.

abstract quote:

It is concluded that following a bout of heavy resistance training, MPS [muscle protein synthesis] increases rapidly, is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline.

And another...
Phillips, S. M., K. D. Tipton, A. Aarsland, S. E. Wolf, and R. R. Wolfe. Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. Am. J. Physiol. 273 (Endocrinol. Metab. 36): E99-E107, 1997

abstract quote:

We conclude that exercise resulted in an increase in muscle net protein balance that persisted for up to 48 h after the exercise bout...

Here's the rest of the abstracts...
first study
second study

Personal note: I mean this not to try and correct anybody. I'm just trying to present new information.

-casual

 

[sk*]

Here we go, Bryan (HST founder) helped me locate the appropriate studies.



Here's why:

MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE. The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise.
Can J Appl Physiol. 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6.

abstract quote:


And another...
Phillips, S. M., K. D. Tipton, A. Aarsland, S. E. Wolf, and R. R. Wolfe. Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. Am. J. Physiol. 273 (Endocrinol. Metab. 36): E99-E107, 1997

abstract quote:


Here's the rest of the abstracts...
first study
second study

Personal note: I mean this not to try and correct anybody. I'm just trying to present new information.

-casual

Those studies are board generalizations. In the first one they used biceps as an example but the bicep is the fastest healing bodypart. Can you really compare biceps to legs?

Also, the more poundage you start pushing the harder it becomes to recover. As DC pointed out earlier, your recovery rate only gets better by a little bit as you progress in weight but your weights go up by A LOT.

IMO, there need to be more studies done for a better conclusion. Best thing I would suggest is for everyone to find their recovery rate at their stage in their lifting carrier. Also steroids and some supplements will aid in recovery significantly.

I find that for myself, hitting a bodypart every 3days using DC's style of training works very good. I tried his routine with every 2days and my gains weren't as good.

-sk

 

[casualbb]

All I can say is that muscular and nervous systems recover at different rates. Muscular system at a more fixed one, as per the studies above. You're right about neural recovery though, that's a lot more variable.

But hey if doing what you're doing works, then do it more.

-casual

 

[endpoint]

Those studies are board generalizations. In the first one they used biceps as an example but the bicep is the fastest healing bodypart. Can you really compare biceps to legs?

Also, the more poundage you start pushing the harder it becomes to recover. As DC pointed out earlier, your recovery rate only gets better by a little bit as you progress in weight but your weights go up by A LOT.

IMO, there need to be more studies done for a better conclusion. Best thing I would suggest is for everyone to find their recovery rate at their stage in their lifting carrier. Also steroids and some supplements will aid in recovery significantly.

I find that for myself, hitting a bodypart every 3days using DC's style of training works very good. I tried his routine with every 2days and my gains weren't as good.

-sk

there are tonnes of studies out there.....most in books and research papers......not on the internet, or in bodybuilder books

 

[sk*]

there are tonnes of studies out there.....most in books and research papers......not on the internet, or in bodybuilder books

If you can direct me to books then I will go get them. I will love nothing more than to optimize my training and diet to the point of absolute efficiency.

-sk

 

[SteelWeaver]

The cool thing about threads like this, if they don't turn ito flame fests, is the amount of interesting info that is generated.

IMO the best thing to do is just learn as much as you can about physiology, etc., frame your training on some of the more proven generalisations, keep a log, then try this for a while, try that for a while, and try the other for a while Then you'll know what works for you, until adaptation sets in, then you try something else - that's why this sport is soooo cool - never-ending learning curve.

 

[Dirty Workout]

Great thread

 

[Vortexx]

Paul de Mayo said that before he became an allround bodybuilder he was a real curl-jockey, just doing 20 somewhat sets barbell curls and skull crushers at home every night... his arms grew to 18.5 inches from this. That should tell you something about muscle recovery...

However the keypoint is that he only trained arms at that time, so that he did not have to recover from grueling squats and deadlifts. Obviously Paul de Mayo no longer trains arms every day , now that he has become an allround bodybuilder, but as a rule of thumb we could assume , train a muscle as often as your CNS recovery allows you...

In order to maximize trainingfrequancy we must improve CNS recovery, or at least not doing things that are counterproductive to CNS recovery (such as lack of sleep)

Many pros have two or even three workout sessions a day in order to maximize trainingfrequency of a certain muscle. This approach allows for relative short workouts, wich in turn does no tax the CNS as much as having a marathon workouts.

However, training 3 times a day, how do you make living without bending over for Joe Weider or doing gay tricks?

|Maybe working as a bouncer you could have the time and the money to workout like that...