The Truth abou ANWR.

[pin]

FIRST… do you know what ANWR is?
ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Now… A comparison

And some perspective

NOTE WHERE THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT AREA IS…

(it's in the 'ANWR Coastal Plain')

THIS IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATS, LIBERALS AND 'GREENS' SHOW YOU WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT ANWR

…and they are right… these ARE photographs of ANWR

ISN'T ANWR BEAUTIFUL? WHY SHOULD WE DRILL HERE (AND DESTROY) THIS BEAUTIFUL PLACE?

…

WELL… THAT'S NOT EXACTLY THE TRUTH

Do you remember the map?

The map showed that the proposed drilling area is in the ANWR Coastal Plain

Do those photographs look like a coastal plain to you?

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

…
THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE…
THAT IS NOT WHERE THEY ARE WANTING TO DRILL!
THIS IS WHAT THE PROPOSED EXPLORATION AREA ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE IN THE WINTER

AND THIS IS WHAT IT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE IN THE SUMMER

HERE ARE A COUPLE SCREEN SHOTS FROM GOOGLE EARTH

AS YOU CAN SEE, THE AREA WHERE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT DRILLING IS A BARREN WASTELAND.



OH… AND THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE EFFECT ON THE LOCAL WILDLIFE…



HERE IS A PHOTO (SHOT DURING THE SUMMER) OF THE
'DEPLETED WILDLIFE' SITUATION CREATED BY DRILLING AROUND PRUDHOE BAY *…
DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE CARIBOU REALLY HATE THAT DRILLING?

HERE'S THAT SAME SPOT DURING THE WINTER.

HEY, THIS BEAR SEEMS TO REALLY HATE THE PIPELINE NEAR PRUDHOE BAY *…

*The Prudhoe bay area accounts for 17% of U.S. Domestic oil production

NOW, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE LYING ABOUT ANWR?

 

[Powerbuilder333]

Liberals aren't interested in the truth. They just want us to pay more for gas, and then blame Bush.

 

[Razorguns]

Doesn't matter. It pisses off hippies and democrats, so we can't have any new drilling or refineries. even repub's banned new drilling in colorado last year. plus Saudis, who own us, do not want us to start drilling. So do the math.

r

 

[redsamurai]

I'm actually on board now with drilling in ANWR.......but they will fuck it up. They will cut corners whenever possible and there will be an accident. And just an FYI, that permafrost you see is still an eco environment. It's all a system and that system is intertwined throughout the whole area. It's unavoidable to do damage. But what can be done? We need that oil.......it's only 10-15 years worth by estimations.........but we need a buffer.

 

[pin]

I'm actually on board now with drilling in ANWR.......but they will fuck it up. They will cut corners whenever possible and there will be an accident. And just an FYI, that permafrost you see is still an eco environment. It's all a system and that system is intertwined throughout the whole area. It's unavoidable to do damage. But what can be done? We need that oil.......it's only 10-15 years worth by estimations.........but we need a buffer.

Really? When was the last time you set foot on the north slope and saw how drilling operations are conducted.

 

[WhistleBritches]

the Exxon Valdez was one little SHip, yet look at how much it destroyed:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Business/ap_exxon_071018_ssh.jpg
http://www.alaska-in-pictures.com/data/media/4/exxon-victim_2901.jpg
http://www.pwsrcac.org/images/0037.jpg
http://gliving.tv/news/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/exxon-valdez-spill-007.jpg
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/06-26-2008.n1a_26Valdez.GL02E634R.1.jpg

and that was only the SUPER FICIAL damage we saw

 

[mountain muscle]

Doesn't matter. It pisses off hippies and democrats, so we can't have any new drilling or refineries. even repub's banned new drilling in colorado last year. plus Saudis, who own us, do not want us to start drilling. So do the math.

r

What drilling in Colorado? Link me please. I know from some buds that the genius environmentalists want a 3 month moratorium here on drilling each year to give the wildlife a break, LMFAO. Encana has threatened to pull out if it is enacted. So bury small towns and the revenue and jobs for some fucking wildlife. Great thinking. I can't even explain how off base that is.

Are you referring to the oil shale drilling?

Thanks Pin for posting this. I was being too lazy to do it lol. Besides, I didn't want to disturb the wildlife.

 

[mountain muscle]

I'm actually on board now with drilling in ANWR.......but they will fuck it up. They will cut corners whenever possible and there will be an accident. And just an FYI, that permafrost you see is still an eco environment. It's all a system and that system is intertwined throughout the whole area. It's unavoidable to do damage. But what can be done? We need that oil.......it's only 10-15 years worth by estimations.........but we need a buffer.

Your "estimates" are only if we relied on that field alone at our current consumption.

You have no idea of the minimal impact drilling has on the environment.

 

[pin]

Here is how other countries drill.
Azerbaijan

Russia

The North Slope oil companies take great care not to screw up the ecosystem.

 

[pin]

the Exxon Valdez was one little SHip, yet look at how much it destroyed:

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Business/ap_exxon_071018_ssh.jpg
http://www.alaska-in-pictures.com/data/media/4/exxon-victim_2901.jpg
http://www.pwsrcac.org/images/0037.jpg
http://gliving.tv/news/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/exxon-valdez-spill-007.jpg
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/06-26-2008.n1a_26Valdez.GL02E634R.1.jpg

and that was only the SUPER FICIAL damage we saw

I went deer hunting in Prince William Sound summer of '03. It was gorgeous. I camped on 3 beaches. And two islands. Not a sign of the spill. Liberals still talk about it like its a wasteland. And the most obnoxious ones have never even been there.

Did it happen? Yes. Did it suck? Yes. But the oil companies spent billions cleaning it up and they did a damn good job.

 

[WhistleBritches]

we cant Rave together at Candy Mountain now

 

[pin]

Hey redsamuri, do you know what a rollagone is? Its a huge machine with balloon like tires that can carry tons of equipment without damaging permafrost or tundra.

When a drilling rig is assembled it it done on giant balloons. When the drilling is finished the rig is disassembled there hardly a trace. Only shaft filled with gravel. A spot a foot across that the tundra will grow over in a year.

My dads whole job is to inspect, maintain and repair pipe. To prevent spills.

My brother repairs the jet engines used to power the camps and refineries.

I was on the Coleville delta Expedition. I helped lay out a geo phone grid over 500 square miles. Using a mobile camp. When the season was over there wasn't a trace. The permafrost was fine.

Whenever we parked a truck or piece of equipment we put a drip pad under it in case some oil leaked.

If a caribou was in the road we weren't allowed to shoo it away or keep driving. We waited for it to move on by its self.

So this idea that the oil companies rape the land is a lie.

We get most of our oil from countries that do rape the land.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

^^^ I wish the timber companies where that careful.
I'm not a environmentalist by any definition, but I hated to see Warehouser rape the side of a mountain in Washington.

 

[puddlemonkey]

Did someone say rape? My alarm went off

 

[musclemom]

Fuck the polar bears, right? Sooner the fuckers go extinct the better.

Drilling there ain't gonna change SHIT for us, now. And sooner or later, as Red says, it will get turned into a fucking trash dump like all the other places humans start pissing all over. We don't USE natural spaces, we take, suck the fucking life out of, make uninhabitable by ANYTHING except rats and cockroaches, then we move on.

I wish to hell that someone would fucking get their ass in gear and come up with a practical renewable resource. This petroleum shit will run out anyway, if not this generation in the next few, so fuck it. Find new fucking cheese.

 

[gjohnson5]

Yeah guys , this really sux

oil is $147 and we haven't even attacked Iran yet...

 

[javaguru]

I went deer hunting in Prince William Sound summer of '03. It was gorgeous. I camped on 3 beaches. And two islands. Not a sign of the spill. Liberals still talk about it like its a wasteland. And the most obnoxious ones have never even been there.

Did it happen? Yes. Did it suck? Yes. But the oil companies spent billions cleaning it up and they did a damn good job.

and tankers are now mandated to have double halls because of it.

 

[binö]

Fuck the polar bears, right? Sooner the fuckers go extinct the better.

Drilling there ain't gonna change SHIT for us, now. And sooner or later, as Red says, it will get turned into a fucking trash dump like all the other places humans start pissing all over. We don't USE natural spaces, we take, suck the fucking life out of, make uninhabitable by ANYTHING except rats and cockroaches, then we move on.

I wish to hell that someone would fucking get their ass in gear and come up with a practical renewable resource. This petroleum shit will run out anyway, if not this generation in the next few, so fuck it. Find new fucking cheese.

a renewable resource isn't gonna just poof drop from the sky one day.
it's obviously not that easy, and will take years of research and perfection...i think it's gonna be a long time before a "practiable" renewable is ever sustainable...for some reason extreme liberals just think it's gonna pop outta the fuggin sky, which is far from the truth imo.
meanwhile, we need energy and oil is our best bet in the meantime. we can't use coal, nuclear energy is bad (think chernobyl!!@#!@#!), dams kill the baby fishies, wtf are we supposed to do?
drill for oil

 

[pin]

a renewable resource isn't gonna just poof drop from the sky one day.
it's obviously not that easy, and will take years of research and perfection...i think it's gonna be a long time before a "practiable" renewable is ever sustainable...for some reason extreme liberals just think it's gonna pop outta the fuggin sky, which is far from the truth imo.
meanwhile, we need energy and oil is our best bet in the meantime. we can't use coal, nuclear energy is bad (think chernobyl!!@#!@#!), dams kill the baby fishies, wtf are we supposed to do?
drill for oil

Well renewable energy for cars is very impractical. But there is plenty of souces for the home. Houses produce more pollution than cars by far. Powering electric grids for cities is the real problem. There isn't enough renewable energy sources right now to completely rely on. But we could make a huge dent if we implimented what we do have. But there is too much greed.

This is the route I'm going.

 

[mountain muscle]

Eliminating current options without any where else to go is definitely the key to eliminating our dependence on middle eastern oil.

 

[gotmilk]

Not a sign of the spill.

Depends on what you count as a sign. No oil or sludge. How about the people who are piss-poor because they lost their fishing income, got hosed by the courts, and the suicide rate of those economically impacted?

I'm cool with drilling in ANWAR, but not cool with this horseshit that this drilling will mysteriously lower gas and oil prices. This crap will be extracted and sold at market prices regardless.

 

[Lestat]

I'd prefer a more long term solution and approach as opposed to more drilling, particularly in undeveloped areas. Maybe it is a good idea to keep some reserves there just in case, maybe one day in a billion years when the sun burns out someone will thank us for not being so greedy?

I think the higher fuel prices are a good thing because they are finally giving the public the motivation to look for alternative and renewable energy sources. We should be able to get all the energy we need (yes for cars too) from the solar, wind, and water.

Why not develop an ultra compact and light battery that can be recharged with low cost electricity that is sourced from solar or wind sources? Seems a hell of a lot smarter than drilling and transporting oil from Alaska.

 

[mountain muscle]

I'd prefer a more long term solution and approach as opposed to more drilling, particularly in undeveloped areas. Maybe it is a good idea to keep some reserves there just in case, maybe one day in a billion years when the sun burns out someone will thank us for not being so greedy?

I think the higher fuel prices are a good thing because they are finally giving the public the motivation to look for alternative and renewable energy sources. We should be able to get all the energy we need (yes for cars too) from the solar, wind, and water.

Why not develop an ultra compact and light battery that can be recharged with low cost electricity that is sourced from solar or wind sources? Seems a hell of a lot smarter than drilling and transporting oil from Alaska.

How long will that take to implement? You better get to work on it asap. I don't understand your opposition to drilling our own oil. Makes no sense considering our infrastructure and lives are dependent on oil.

 

[Lestat]

How long will that take to implement? You better get to work on it asap. I don't understand your opposition to drilling our own oil. Makes no sense considering our infrastructure and lives are dependent on oil.

I think its stupid that we are so dependent on oil and I've been saying it for years! I can see using for recreation vehicles and such, but for daily commuting and regular transportation of goods (trucking) we are stupid to continue to depend/rely on oil!

 

[mountain muscle]

I think its stupid that we are so dependent on oil and I've been saying it for years! I can see using for recreation vehicles and such, but for daily commuting and regular transportation of goods (trucking) we are stupid to continue to depend/rely on oil!

For years huh? Ever since it became inconvenient for you or was when it became a cool political statement for your team?

 

[Lestat]

For years huh? Ever since it became inconvenient for you or was when it became a cool political statement for your team?

No, I had a physics project in high school (1994) where I proposed electricity driven mass transit (unlike anything we've done or seen before) in order to reduce the need for oil, and stop the ineffecient building of roads and parking lots. I still think it is ingenious, not without some negatives, but I still think it could work one day (just need a few hundred million to develop and an entire city willing to give up all its roads and parking lots.)

But yes, this was when I was a die hard republican too. My focus was more on how we use our space and money with roads. VERY inefficent, the majority of the day freeways are severely under utilized. Same with major parking lots. They cost a lot of build and maintain and they are barely used (as a percentage of total time). Gas was still less than 1.00 a gallon in places so people weren't screaming quite as much about that (see why I say its a GOOD thing we pay so much, I wouldn't care if gas was 10.00 per gallon, it would hurt us short term, but really motivate us to move in better directions in the future).

 

[mountain muscle]

No, I had a physics project in high school (1994) where I proposed electricity driven mass transit (unlike anything we've done or seen before) in order to reduce the need for oil, and stop the ineffecient building of roads and parking lots. I still think it is ingenious, not without some negatives, but I still think it could work one day (just need a few hundred million to develop and an entire city willing to give up all its roads and parking lots.)

But yes, this was when I was a die hard republican too. My focus was more on how we use our space and money with roads. VERY inefficent, the majority of the day freeways are severely under utilized. Same with major parking lots. They cost a lot of build and maintain and they are barely used (as a percentage of total time). Gas was still less than 1.00 a gallon in places so people weren't screaming quite as much about that (see why I say its a GOOD thing we pay so much, I wouldn't care if gas was 10.00 per gallon, it would hurt us short term, but really motivate us to move in better directions in the future).

Please share it with us then. Perhaps someone here can it going if it is so ingenious. You have had 14 years, give someone else a chance then, since it is such a big issue for you.

You still failed to answer my question on the time length for implementation of your rechargeable battery by solar/wind provided electricity. And what we are going to do interim?

Why isn't Cali fully self sustained on wind, solar and tidal power?

Why did they outbid everyone for the natural gas in Colorado and have a pipeline built to here so they could power their power plants? Shouldn't they be leading the way in alternatives since they, and you, like to give so much voice service to them?

 

[pin]

All of this is just fantisy though. The reason that I posted this thread it to show that our entire political system is a fraud. Your votes don't count. Republicans and Democrats in power argue and fight for us in front of the cameras and put on a good show. And everyone swallows their crap with a smile. Meanwhile behind the scenes they're working togather getting rich by making the ultra rich richer. And more powerful.

There is enough oil under Alaskan soil to power this entire country cheaply. But we are invading the middle east. Why?!?!?!?

Lestat is sort of right. I'm sure if we were really serious we could ween ourselves of of oil dependency in a decade or two. But why don't we?

Here's why...

 

[Lestat]

Please share it with us then. Perhaps someone here can it going if it is so ingenious. You have had 14 years, give someone else a chance then, since it is such a big issue for you.

You still failed to answer my question on the time length for implementation of your rechargeable battery by solar/wind provided electricity. And what we are going to do interim?

Why isn't Cali fully self sustained on wind, solar and tidal power?

Why did they outbid everyone for the natural gas in Colorado and have a pipeline built to here so they could power their power plants? Shouldn't they be leading the way in alternatives since they, and you, like to give so much voice service to them?

The idea isn't easy to explain in a message board, if we ever meet I'll talk to you about it.

I have no idea how long it takes to develop smaller more effecient batteries. But as with most development projects, the more funding it gets the quicker it will produce results. This isn't something that I am going to solve, or any one individual, its thousands of people and millions (more likely billions) of dollars.

California is fairly progressive, but its companies still look for the lowest cost options, not the most sustainable or environmently friendly. The only time they do is when forced to by the government, which I find sad.

 

[pin]

As long as republicans and democrats hate each other these assholes are free to accomplish what they really want unnoticed.

 

[Megalomaniac]

I love when people from southern california make claims they want better energy resources. When one goes to SoCal they realize that it is one of the most abusive energy regions in the nation. When SoCal stops buying SUV's for driving down the highway and starts using public trans then I will start agreeing with not drilling for more resources.

 

[Lestat]

I love when people from southern california make claims they want better energy resources. When one goes to SoCal they realize that it is one of the most abusive energy regions in the nation. When SoCal stops buying SUV's for driving down the highway and starts using public trans then I will start agreeing with not drilling for more resources.

I ride my bike as often as possible bro, and my next car will be a hybrid, not a Jeep like I really want.

 

[pin]

Heeellooooo!!! More rebublican vs. democrat bickering. They've got you sheep right where they want you.

 

[mountain muscle]

Heeellooooo!!! More rebublican vs. democrat bickering. They've got you sheep right where they want you.

Glad I am independent. I am just pro drilling.

 

[pin]

Glad I am independent. I am just pro drilling.

Me too. Cause what other choice do we have?

Did you all know that the Trans Alaska Pipline only runs at about one quarter full. If they wanted to they could open valves and activate pumps at will and produce ALOT more crude. And everyone thinks that OPEC is the bad guy.

So really drilling in new areas is unnecessary.

 

[Lestat]

Me too. Cause what other choice do we have?

Did you all know that the Trans Alaska Pipline only runs at about one quarter full. If they wanted to they could open valves and activate pumps at will and produce ALOT more crude. And everyone thinks that OPEC is the bad guy.

So really drilling in new areas is unnecessary.

do you really think that is our only choice? or is it the only choice you care to consider?

 

[mountain muscle]

Me too. Cause what other choice do we have?

Did you all know that the Trans Alaska Pipline only runs at about one quarter full. If they wanted to they could open valves and activate pumps at will and produce ALOT more crude. And everyone thinks that OPEC is the bad guy.

So really drilling in new areas is unnecessary.

Not necessarily Pin. Where do you propose we refine the extra crude? Continued drilling is necessary to preserve our reserves and reduce dependence on foreign oil.

 

[pin]

do you really think that is our only choice? or is it the only choice you care to consider?

Are you ignoring all of my posts in this thread or is it selective reading on your part? Or are you just retarded?

 

[Lestat]

Are you ignoring all of my posts in this thread or is it selective reading on your part? Or are you just retarded?

I read all of your posts, you make blanket statements like "renewable energy sources in cars in unpractical."

I disagree with that. And how about moving away from cars in general? there are plenty of options and choices, I think the worst one is to continue to use oil at the same rate we are today.

 

[pin]

Not necessarily Pin. Where do you propose we refine the extra crude? Continued drilling is necessary to preserve our reserves and reduce dependence on foreign oil.

Thats a good point. Nanci Pelosi wants to use our stratiegic oil reserves during a time of war in order to lower prices at the pump.

What? Does she WANT to destroy this country?

 

[pin]

I read all of your posts, you make blanket statements like "renewable energy sources in cars in unpractical."

I disagree with that. And how about moving away from cars in general? there are plenty of options and choices, I think the worst one is to continue to use oil at the same rate we are today.

Man. You really are retarded. Or you've smoked waaaay too much pot today.

All of this is just fantisy though. The reason that I posted this thread it to show that our entire political system is a fraud. Your votes don't count. Republicans and Democrats in power argue and fight for us in front of the cameras and put on a good show. And everyone swallows their crap with a smile. Meanwhile behind the scenes they're working togather getting rich by making the ultra rich richer. And more powerful.

There is enough oil under Alaskan soil to power this entire country cheaply. But we are invading the middle east. Why?!?!?!?

Lestat is sort of right. I'm sure if we were really serious we could ween ourselves off of oil dependency in a decade or two. But why don't we?

 

[Lestat]

Man. You really are retarded. Or you've smoked waaaay too much pot today.

What purpose does hurling insults serve except to undermine your argument?

If you want to make a thread about how politics is corrupt and full of power hungry people who use it for their own gain you don't have to make a thread so specific and lead people to believe its about drilling and oil. I'd be happy to discuss politics with you in general, but for this thread i'll stick to drilling, oil, and alternative energy sources.

Sure, there is some oil under Alaska, and sure it could give us some short term relieve to prices. Will they be significant? Who knows. Will they be permanent? No. So for that reason I say lets devote our time, money, and energy towards something that future generations will benefit from.

 

[pin]

What purpose does hurling insults serve except to undermine your argument?

If you want to make a thread about how politics is corrupt and full of power hungry people who use it for their own gain you don't have to make a thread so specific and lead people to believe its about drilling and oil. I'd be happy to discuss politics with you in general, but for this thread i'll stick to drilling, oil, and alternative energy sources.

Sure, there is some oil under Alaska, and sure it could give us some short term relieve to prices. Will they be significant? Who knows. Will they be permanent? No. So for that reason I say lets devote our time, money, and energy towards something that future generations will benefit from.

Whatever idiot. You've completely missed the point. Maybe you should start from the beginning of the thread. But I don't think it will matter.

 

[mountain muscle]

Thats a good point. Nanci Pelosi wants to use our stratiegic oil reserves during a time of war in order to lower prices at the pump.

What? Does she WANT to destroy this country?

Actually, I agree with that proposal. However dipping into our reserves also included funding for R&D and exploratory drilling so the oil companies could drill more wells to replace the reserves used.

 

[mountain muscle]

do you really think that is our only choice? or is it the only choice you care to consider?

Name the other immediate choice then.

 

[pin]

Actually, I agree with that proposal. However dipping into our reserves also included funding for R&D and exploratory drilling so the oil companies could drill more wells to replace the reserves used.

I would be all for it too if we weren't at war.

 

[Lestat]

Name the other immediate choice then.

What is the goal? To reduce the cost per gallon of gasoline?

 

[mountain muscle]

I would be all for it too if we weren't at war.

What is wrong with using Iraqi oil to reduce our costs and power the war machine? They are notoriously inept at utilizing their own reserves. No reason for us not to be paid in reduced fuel costs for our efforts to help them.

 

[Megalomaniac]

What is the goal? To reduce the cost per gallon of gasoline?

Who cares about the cost per gallon, the goal is to keep the US economy in the lead. If drilling helps our economy then go for it, if not then wait. Easy problem to figure out IMO.

 

[Lestat]

Who cares about the cost per gallon, the goal is to keep the US economy in the lead. If drilling helps our economy then go for it, if not then wait. Easy problem to figure out IMO.

I want to know what the goal is, or problem to be fixed, in order to think about potential considerations.

For this issue, whatever it is, I'd first say, lets envison Alaska didn't exist, what would our course of action be?

 

[Megalomaniac]

I want to know what the goal is, or problem to be fixed, in order to think about potential considerations.

For this issue, whatever it is, I'd first say, lets envison Alaska didn't exist, what would our course of action be?

are you trying to get me to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairly again?

 

[Lestat]

are you trying to get me to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairly again?

nope!@

 

[Megalomaniac]

nope!@

LOL, I don't think we need to pretend it doesn't exist because it does. I live in Asia and let me tell you all these nations are trying to cramp our lifestyle and they have the means to do it. I could go on and on about how their economies are pulling us down or will be soon. One close to my heart is Macau, that place will be placing more bets a day then Vegas in the next 24 months.
A lot of environmental driven people don't take economy into consideration. Without the leading economy we are not the leader in anything. Without the leading economy we loose our voice, without our leading voice all the environmental goals will be pushed aside. Economics is the key here, not environment.

 

[Lestat]

LOL, I don't think we need to pretend it doesn't exist because it does. I live in Asia and let me tell you all these nations are trying to cramp our lifestyle and they have the means to do it. I could go on and on about how their economies are pulling us down or will be soon. One close to my heart is Macau, that place will be placing more bets a day then Vegas in the next 24 months.
A lot of environmental driven people don't take economy into consideration. Without the leading economy we are not the leader in anything. Without the leading economy we loose our voice, without our leading voice all the environmental goals will be pushed aside. Economics is the key here, not environment.

I understand we exist in a competative global economy, I think there are other ways to address our own nation's competativeness that doesn't include drilling for oil!

How about better education? new ways to increase productivity?

 

[mountain muscle]

What is the goal? To reduce the cost per gallon of gasoline?

Are you still not answering questions? Our immediate goal is to reduce dependence on foreign oil.

Pretending Alaska doesn't exist is just a foolish flight of fancy. Let's stay firmly within the realm of reality here.

 

[mountain muscle]

LOL, I don't think we need to pretend it doesn't exist because it does. I live in Asia and let me tell you all these nations are trying to cramp our lifestyle and they have the means to do it. I could go on and on about how their economies are pulling us down or will be soon. One close to my heart is Macau, that place will be placing more bets a day then Vegas in the next 24 months.
A lot of environmental driven people don't take economy into consideration. Without the leading economy we are not the leader in anything. Without the leading economy we loose our voice, without our leading voice all the environmental goals will be pushed aside. Economics is the key here, not environment.

Hey Mega did you get my email? I just got my cable and internet fixed and a lot of my emails didn't go through. I have gear questions and wondering about what your armorer said about other optics. Got a chance to shoot the ACOG I showed you on my same rifle and I love it, seriously impressed and now understand the price. I have other questions about stocks and lights and flash hiders. Waiting for my Daniel Defense Omega rail to arrive now.

 

[Lestat]

Are you still not answering questions? Our immediate goal is to reduce dependence on foreign oil.

Pretending Alaska doesn't exist is just a foolish flight of fancy. Let's stay firmly within the realm of reality here.

if the goal is to reduce dependence on foreign oil, i'd say lets reduce consumption! there are many ways to do this. None of them happen overnight, but neither does large scale drilling projects and refinement.

I only bring up the idea of "pretending" that alaska didn't exist to get people to think outside the box.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Hey Mega did you get my email? I just got my cable and internet fixed and a lot of my emails didn't go through. I have gear questions and wondering about what your armorer said about other optics. Got a chance to shoot the ACOG I showed you on my same rifle and I love it, seriously impressed and now understand the price. I have other questions about stocks and lights and flash hiders. Waiting for my Daniel Defense Omega rail to arrive now.

No I only got the one email from you. Hit me up again, I never got your addy.(well I did like 6 months ago but don't know where it is)


ANWR needs to be drilled, alt resources need to be found(govt rewarded research), education system needs to be fixed and focused on engineering(govt needs to push this but not regulate) and society needs to be taught it isn't the same selfish world anymore.

There I fixed the problem, wasn't hard, vote for me.

 

[pin]

if the goal is to reduce dependence on foreign oil, i'd say lets reduce consumption! there are many ways to do this. None of them happen overnight, but neither does large scale drilling projects and refinement.

I only bring up the idea of "pretending" that alaska didn't exist to get people to think outside the box.

What?

 

[Lestat]

What?

that doesn't tell me the scale of the project, only the area to be drilled. What is the time to setup, drill, transport, etc. I asumme its going to take months if not years.

 

[Megalomaniac]

that doesn't tell me the scale of the project, only the area to be drilled. What is the time to setup, drill, transport, etc. I asumme its going to take months if not years.

It would already be done if the Dems wouldn't have blocked it. Right now the US would be looking like it had things figured out instead of reeling all the time because a few people want to feel important and good about themselves.

 

[Lestat]

It would already be done if the Dems wouldn't have blocked it. Right now the US would be looking like it had things figured out instead of reeling all the time because a few people want to feel important and good about themselves.

I say the same thing about alernative energy sources. Why aren't we further along there? Why is TOYOTA making the most popular hybrid and not GM, Ford, Chevy...

 

[pin]

Lestat. When was the last time you observed a drilling operation?

 

[Lestat]

Lestat. When was the last time you observed a drilling operation?

never in person, only on TV, movies, print media, etc.

 

[Megalomaniac]

I say the same thing about alernative energy sources. Why aren't we further along there? Why is TOYOTA making the most popular hybrid and not GM, Ford, Chevy...

Money. Provide a way for companies to make money and the capitalist market will make it happen. Desire is the answer, there hasn't been a big enough desire for it to happen.

Drilling on the other hand isn't because of lack of desire, it is because of uneducated in that field people wanting to feel good about themselves and thinking they are making the world a better place by kicking and screaming when they really don't even understand what they are screaming about. There self-righteousness is hurting more than helping but that is America.

 

[Lestat]

Money. Provide a way for companies to make money and the capitalist market will make it happen. Desire is the answer, there hasn't been a big enough desire for it to happen.

Drilling on the other hand isn't because of lack of desire, it is because of uneducated in that field people wanting to feel good about themselves and thinking they are making the world a better place by kicking and screaming when they really don't even understand what they are screaming about. There self-righteousness is hurting more than helping but that is America.

Exactly why I don't think pure capitalism is an effective long term solution for humans. It can ultimately be self destructive.

 

[pin]

never in person, only on TV, movies, print media, etc.

Well I've seen a drilling operation up and running in one day. The rig was moved out on to out spread while we were still taking readings. The vibrations from their activities were screwing up our readings so we had to radio them and ask them to stop until we were done.

Once we know where the oil is its not difficult to get it. We're talking 6 months.

I would like to reiterate that this is not a thread about oil or drilling. Its about global political corruption. They already know where the oil is.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Exactly why I don't think pure capitalism is an effective long term solution for humans. It can ultimately be self destructive.

True but it is the best thing we have going right now. Until something better evolves I will support capitalism to the fullest, it has brought more good than bad.
I just hope we can stay ahead of these asian nations, they are on the move big time. Arab nations have oil but that is it. It is easy to defeat them if it comes to that point. The asian nations have what it takes to defeat us, education, work force and leadership. I think ANWR needs to be worked for the nations benefit.

 

[mountain muscle]

Money. Provide a way for companies to make money and the capitalist market will make it happen. Desire is the answer, there hasn't been a big enough desire for it to happen.

Drilling on the other hand isn't because of lack of desire, it is because of uneducated in that field people wanting to feel good about themselves and thinking they are making the world a better place by kicking and screaming when they really don't even understand what they are screaming about. There self-righteousness is hurting more than helping but that is America.

You lost me on this post. Are you saying people who drill are uneducated and want to drill to feel good about themselves? Are you calling me uneducated?
Did you know that the govt makes almost twice the money off of oil revenues than the oil companies do?

Self righteous is bitching about oil companies and drilling and claiming we need to stop drilling for alt fuel sources when there is no infrastructure in place to use alt fuels. Those are the people who are bitching and feeling good about themselves while not doing anything to make the world a better place.

 

[jerseyrugger76]

I don't really have a position on ANWAR per se. Ann said it looked an awful lot like the moon and the Caribou seemed to enjoy the warmth. The pics seem to support that claim. Note I get all of my conservative info from Ann. She's the only one of you louts who's smart, hysterically funny, and easy on the eyes. She also has a phenomenal recipe for braised English short ribs. Anywho . . .

I've heard quotes that it will take 5 to 10 years (leaning towards 10) to get the oil from ANWAR into the markets. Let's assume 5 years. Markets look approximately 6 to 12 months into the future. So, it's not going to do shit for me today, as an investor or a consumer.

Let's assume that we do it anyway and drill 5 years from now. What then? Isn't it like saying to someone, "You know, since you're a smack addict, we'll fix the problem by giving you more heroin! Everything will be all better then."

Oil will never go away as an energy source. With oil sands in places like Canada, I don't think it should. But where is the comprehensive solution that is one part oil, one part wind, one part ethanol, one part solar, one part international relations, one part nuclear power (France gets about 82% of their power from nuclear sources, I'd do the same in a heart beat), and one part research (e.g. turning ocean wave motion into energy)? It's like solving a calculus equation subject to a constraint (the availability of oil).

Everyone is talking in false dichotomies: anwar or no anwar; oil or no oil. And it's total bullshit. You could drill from ANWAR to the center of the earth, but unless you take a holistic approach to solving the problem, it will never end.

 

[pin]

I don't really have a position on ANWAR per se. Ann said it looked an awful lot like the moon and the Caribou seemed to enjoy the warmth. The pics seem to support that claim. Note I get all of my conservative info from Ann. She's the only one of you louts who's smart, hysterically funny, and easy on the eyes. She also has a phenomenal recipe for braised English short ribs. Anywho . . .

I've heard quotes that it will take 5 to 10 years (leaning towards 10) to get the oil from ANWAR into the markets. Let's assume 5 years. Markets look approximately 6 to 12 months into the future. So, it's not going to do shit for me today, as an investor or a consumer.

Let's assume that we do it anyway and drill 5 years from now. What then? Isn't it like saying to someone, "You know, since you're a smack addict, we'll fix the problem by giving you more heroin! Everything will be all better then."

Oil will never go away as an energy source. With oil sands in places like Canada, I don't think it should. But where is the comprehensive solution that is one part oil, one part wind, one part ethanol, one part solar, one part international relations, one part nuclear power (France gets about 82% of their power from nuclear sources, I'd do the same in a heart beat), and one part research (e.g. turning ocean wave motion into energy)? It's like solving a calculus equation subject to a constraint (the availability of oil).

Everyone is talking in false dichotomies: anwar or no anwar; oil or no oil. And it's total bullshit. You could drill from ANWAR to the center of the earth, but unless you take a holistic approach to solving the problem, it will never end.

My whole family works on the north slope. I like Ann Coulter too, but frankly she has never seen how fast an operation can go up.

This is exactly my point. The idea that it would take 10 years to get the oil to market is total crap. Its a political lie. Its manipulative. And it pisses those of us who know off. Don't believe the hype.

 

[jerseyrugger76]

My whole family works on the north slope. I like Ann Coulter too, but frankly she has never seen how fast an operation can go up.

This is exactly my point. The idea that it would take 10 years to get the oil to market is total crap. Its a political lie. Its manipulative. And it pisses those of us who know off. Don't believe the hype.

WTF is the North Slope? Type slowly, I'm drinking.

 

[Megalomaniac]

You lost me on this post. Are you saying people who drill are uneducated and want to drill to feel good about themselves? Are you calling me uneducated?
Did you know that the govt makes almost twice the money off of oil revenues than the oil companies do?

Self righteous is bitching about oil companies and drilling and claiming we need to stop drilling for alt fuel sources when there is no infrastructure in place to use alt fuels. Those are the people who are bitching and feeling good about themselves while not doing anything to make the world a better place.

LOL no I'm saying that environmentalist who block things like ANWR because they feel they are making the best decision and making a difference are usually self-righteous. They usually don't understand the fields they are speaking up against.
I'm from Wyoming and grew up a coal miners son. The mine my father worked at is located next to the land my grandfather homesteaded. Due to reclamation that was paid for by profits from the mine the mine is now the most desired habitat in the region. Likewise due to profits from Methane drilling on local ranches across the state the the habitat is in better condition than ever in history.
I believe in protecting the environment through improvement, not isolation. Unless you believe in population control, it is too late to "preserve" the planet. Now we must make it work for us.

 

[mountain muscle]

My whole family works on the north slope. I like Ann Coulter too, but frankly she has never seen how fast an operation can go up.

This is exactly my point. The idea that it would take 10 years to get the oil to market is total crap. Its a political lie. Its manipulative. And it pisses those of us who know off. Don't believe the hype.

I have always ignored that minor misconception. It speaks volumes about the knowledge of the people who are speaking out against drilling.

4 holes in the DJ basin here take about 10 days including rig moves and each hole is around 7k ft. They drilled one hole to 7k ft in 29 hours.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Megalomaniac]

WTF is the North Slope? Type slowly, I'm drinking.

North Slope = northern alaska

your point is deadly accurate, we need multiple solutions. One of those solutions is ANWR. There are other ways to get oil, much of the rocky mountain region has Oil shale which is similar to oil sands. They are working on the same process of removing the oil out of the shale as the sands. There is plenty of oil(anwar, existing fields, off-shore, shale, ect), we just need to keep the environment foremost in the process. Create the jobs, get the oil, use profits for the environment, fuel the economy. Vote for me.

 

[jerseyrugger76]

LOL no I'm saying that environmentalist who block things like ANWR because they feel they are making the best decision and making a difference are usually self-righteous. They usually don't understand the fields they are speaking up against.
I'm from Wyoming and grew up a coal miners son.

OMG I think the Heath Ledger character in Brokeback Mountain had a similar back-story. Amazing!

 

[pin]

WTF is the North Slope? Type slowly, I'm drinking.

The North slope is the entire northen section of Alaska north of the brooks range. It includes ANWR.

They call it "the slope" because it gradually slopes into the Arctic Ocean from the Brooks Range. Anyone who works up there is called "a slope worker" of "slopey".

It looks so awesom in the winter. Its like another planet. The northen lights were the most amazing thing I've ever seen. They filled the entire sky with green and purple swirls of light. I remember one night all 120 of us guys in the camp just stopped working for about 45 minutes and stood on the frozen arctic ocean and stared at the sky. Thats a really cool memory.

 

[Megalomaniac]

I have always ignored that minor misconception. It speaks volumes about the knowledge of the people who are speaking out against drilling.

4 holes in the DJ basin here take about 10 days including rig moves and each hole is around 7k ft. They drilled one hole to 7k ft in 29 hours.

Ignorance is bliss.

I thought about working that field, then I decided tours in Iraq is better work for me. LOL. That is how much respect I have for those guys, that is a tough industry and I love the fact that that both soldiers and rough necks are getting paid these days. Jobs that people sitting in offices couldn't handle but need, it kills me when they make more. I would love to revamp the pay scales in the world. Lawyers 40,000, Doctors 150,000, roughnecks 130,000, military 100,000, cops/firemen 100,000, teachers 140,000, pro athletes 25,000, actors 15,000 ect.

 

[WhistleBritches]

The Drilling Location is DANGEROUSLY close to water and those delicate Island Eco Systems that I am sure house micro ecosystems

not to mention it would be nice to keep that OIL for a TRUE emergency,

say a Nuclear winter

 

[mountain muscle]

LOL no I'm saying that environmentalist who block things like ANWR because they feel they are making the best decision and making a difference are usually self-righteous. They usually don't understand the fields they are speaking up against.
I'm from Wyoming and grew up a coal miners son. The mine my father worked at is located next to the land my grandfather homesteaded. Due to reclamation that was paid for by profits from the mine the mine is now the most desired habitat in the region. Likewise due to profits from Methane drilling on local ranches across the state the the habitat is in better condition than ever in history.
I believe in protecting the environment through improvement, not isolation. Unless you believe in population control, it is too late to "preserve" the planet. Now we must make it work for us.

I was just making sure. Thank your dad for me, mines are a crazy ass place to work and fascinating too. What part of Wyoming? When are you going to come back and join us for deer/elk camp?

 

[pin]

The Drilling Location is DANGEROUSLY close to water and those delicate Island Eco Systems that I am sure house micro ecosystems

not to mention it would be nice to keep that OIL for a TRUE emergency,

say a Nuclear winter

Please see the first two pages of this thread.

 

[jerseyrugger76]

It looks so awesom in the winter. Its like another planet. The northen lights were the most amazing thing I've ever seen. They filled the entire sky with green and purple swirls of light. I remember one night all 120 of us guys in the camp just stopped working for about 45 minutes and stood on the frozen arctic ocean and stared at the sky. Thats a really cool memory.

I guess that's what the environmental types are bitching about. They prolly want to make sure something is left over for someone else to say, "Yeah, it's amazing, you've gotta go." It seems like both sides of the debate would do well by packing a bowl, taking a hit, and relaxing tho.

As for me, I'll take Manhattan or Paris. I don't camp anywhere there isn't a concierge. Thanx for the edu-ma-cation tho!

 

[Megalomaniac]

I was just making sure. Thank your dad for me, mines are a crazy ass place to work and fascinating too. What part of Wyoming? When are you going to come back and join us for deer/elk camp?

I have 8 years left until retirement, then I won't miss a season. In 11 years of service I have only hunted 1 year(last year and it was awesome!), I never missed a season prior to my service. I'm from Northern Wyoming, dad did 31 years in a coal mine.


Alaska has other exploration they need to approve also. There are mines in the south that need to be approve, these things can help our national economic situation IMO. Once again vote for me, I'm starting my campaign for the 2032 election.

 

[mountain muscle]

I thought about working that field, then I decided tours in Iraq is better work for me. LOL. That is how much respect I have for those guys, that is a tough industry and I love the fact that that both soldiers and rough necks are getting paid these days. Jobs that people sitting in offices couldn't handle but need, it kills me when they make more. I would love to revamp the pay scales in the world. Lawyers 40,000, Doctors 150,000, roughnecks 130,000, military 100,000, cops/firemen 100,000, teachers 140,000, pro athletes 25,000, actors 15,000 ect.

I am right on base with you there. However, if roughnecks are getting paid more than soldiers, then the soldiers better have a kick ass health/medical program. They have earned it and no way in hell should congress and govt. workers get better benefits than soldiers.

 

[chazk]

looks like those pics of the plain was taken as the winter ice melted and before spring growth kicked in.
I have been to alaska and spent 1 month back in 1999 traveling in a small cessna and beech air plane all over the state during the month of july.
My friend chris was building up his flight hours to become a comercial pilot by doing mail and cargo drops to rule areas.
I will say it was the most adverterous and exciting thing I have ever done. we went all up into the area of barrow and down the coastlines .
I have seen first hand , when the ice melts it leaves a mushy swamp like area in vallys and near some low lying coast areas. Far from a waste land many animals were in herds down their chopping on the grassy shrubage, Moose for somereason like to hang out in that stuff, rabbits as well. Many animals come and feed and like to tromp through the mushy areas
those pics of the alaska plain are very deceiving, Kinda like showing the florida everglades and showing a swamp with nothing else, instead of showing all the wildlife that lives in the swap from birds,alligators,to rabbits and fish

 

[pin]

looks like those pics of the plain was taken as the winter ice melted and before spring growth kicked in.
I have been to alaska and spent 1 month back in 1999 traveling in a small cessna and beech air plane all over the state during the month of july.
My friend chris was building up his flight hours to become a comercial pilot by doing mail and cargo drops to rule areas.
I will say it was the most adverterous and exciting thing I have ever done. we went all up into the area of barrow and down the coastlines .
I have seen first hand , when the ice melts it leaves a mushy swamp like area in vallys and near some low lying coast areas. Far from a waste land many animals were in herds down their chopping on the grassy shrubage, Moose for somereason like to hang out in that stuff, rabbits as well. Many animals come and feed and like to tromp through the mushy areas
those pics of the alaska plain are very deceiving, Kinda like showing the florida everglades and showing a swamp with nothing else, instead of showing all the wildlife that lives in the swap from birds,alligators,to rabbits and fish

And of all of the land that you saw, how much of it was oilfield? Pipe lines drill rigs etc.

 

[digger]

Kewl. Here's a softball for you -- "the oil will be sold on the world market, there's no way to earmark it for U.S. consumers."

 

[chazk]

And of all of the land that you saw, how much of it was oilfield? Pipe lines drill rigs etc.

the pipe line runs across the entire state almost, many stations set up along the line to monitor and regulate flow and warm the oil during winter.
It was not to bad looking , it just looks like a giant roadway ( from the air ) cutting through the land
I think alaska could use some jobs and more population. ( I would love tolive their from april - august but just to cold for me in the winters)
Alot of areas were ghoast towns. My friend was telling me that fairbanks ( where we spent most the time at then flew out 5 days a week doing drops ) was thriving during oil pipeline boom and some guys stayed around after the line was done for few years but eventually into the 80's the population started dropping off. Lots of empty building in the cities that were pipeline boom towns now.
the govt gives any american citzen land for free if they build a house on it and a oil revenue check at the end of the year , get this no property taxes ether or state taxes.

 

[pin]

the pipe line runs across the entire state almost, many stations set up along the line to monitor and regulate flow and warm the oil during winter.
It was not to bad looking , it just looks like a giant roadway ( from the air ) cutting through the land
I think alaska could use some jobs and more population. ( I would love tolive their from april - august but just to cold for me in the winters)
Alot of areas were ghoast towns. My friend was telling me that fairbanks ( where we spent most the time at then flew out 5 days a week doing drops ) was thriving during oil pipeline boom and some guys stayed around after the line was done for few years but eventually into the 80's the population started dropping off. Lots of empty building in the cities that were pipeline boom towns now.
the govt gives any american citzen land for free if they build a house on it and a oil revenue check at the end of the year , get this no property taxes ether or state taxes.

Ya I know about the Trans Alaska Pipeline. But I was referring to all of the smaller pipelines that tie into the trans Alaska from the oil wells.

The point that I was trying to make is that from the air the footprint is tiny. I've seen areas were drilling operations used to be and there is no trace of them.

The one good thing that the Democrats and greenies have accomplished is the regulation of the oil industry. Conoco Phillips and BP are very responsible companies.

If the industry wasn't regulated this is what we'd get.

 

[pin]

Kewl. Here's a softball for you -- "the oil will be sold on the world market, there's no way to earmark it for U.S. consumers."

Exactly my point. The whole thing SUX!!! That is what this thread is about.

 

[redsamurai]

Your "estimates" are only if we relied on that field alone at our current consumption.

You have no idea of the minimal impact drilling has on the environment.

They're not "my" estimates bro........that info came from a talk given at MIT about future energy consumtion.

And as for "minimal environment" impact.......I'm sure things will be just fine for a decade or so. Till americans forget about shit and then whoever's drilling down there WILL start cutting corners on the aging equipment and if something happens, they'll be shielded from any real culpability by the politicians they bought in DC. It's more the pipelines that worry people than the actual rigs. The rigs have to be pretty well maintained simply for worker safety.........but the pipelines will be vulnerable. Just a couple thousands gallons of oil get spilled and the impact on the surrounding environment will be complete. But like I said, at this point........we've got no choice, so fuck it.

 

[binö]

They're not "my" estimates bro........that info came from a talk given at MIT about future energy consumtion.

And as for "minimal environment" impact.......I'm sure things will be just fine for a decade or so. Till americans forget about shit and then whoever's drilling down there WILL start cutting corners on the aging equipment and if something happens, they'll be shielded from any real culpability by the politicians they bought in DC. It's more the pipelines that worry people than the actual rigs. The rigs have to be pretty well maintained simply for worker safety.........but the pipelines will be vulnerable. Just a couple thousands gallons of oil get spilled and the impact on the surrounding environment will be complete. But like I said, at this point........we've got no choice, so fuck it.

don't you think that drilling tech will only improve over the years, thus reducing future problems?
i think the oil compaines are nervous about fuggin up, considering the payout from the exxon spill

 

[redsamurai]

I can only hope........and maybe you're right, I have no idea. But if you haven't noticed, I'm a cynical fucker. I will never trust anyone or any entity with dollar bills on the brain. Where's there's corners to be cut, they always will be cut.........hopefully they get away with it.

don't you think that drilling tech will only improve over the years, thus reducing future problems?
i think the oil compaines are nervous about fuggin up, considering the payout from the exxon spill

 

[pin]

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

I am right on base with you there. However, if roughnecks are getting paid more than soldiers, then the soldiers better have a kick ass health/medical program. They have earned it and no way in hell should congress and govt. workers get better benefits than soldiers.

I wasn't lying when I said Aztec Oil was offering $120k to come work on a drilling rig. It was through an agency you pay to get you an O & G job...

 

[pin]

 

[Mr. dB]

Excellent.

 

[pin]

 

[pin]

 

[75th]

So sad, yet so true.