redsamurai said:
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watching george roll around on the floor with BJJ artist, that's what I was talking about.....it would be comical.
Not as funny as watching someone that had only BJJ training try to stand with him in a boxing ring , Ill wager .
you might have a point here......but fact is ali didn't train MMA, so calling him the best "fighter" of all time is suspect.
calling someone the best "Fighter" of all time unless they fight to the death is rediculous , honestly . in fact , this list should be populated with guys like Musashi , Spartacus , Achilles and Leonidas - and not the posers listed above .
MMA and NHB style fights are the closest legal fights you can have with another man that are about as close as you're going to get to a street fight......and that in my opinion is the gold standard.
No they arent .
You presume that because you think you can DO the most in an "Nhb" style fight that it is what most closely resembles "the Real Thing" .
Twaddle .
The fact is that MMA fighting is probably FURTHER away from "reality" than a Dumog , Leithwei , Muay Thai , San Shou or Lei Tai matchup .
And until they start fighting them on hard surfaces they always will be .
Tyson was an idiot, outside of the ring.
In as well . One trick pony , you didnt fall to his style he made NO adjustments .
And Lost .
You really SHOULD read up on some of the links I posted .
But tyson was not a "midget" at 5'11......nor were his arms "that" short. Yeah, he had to get inside people to affect his power.......
dude , thats Middleweight height go look at guys like Cossamayor
Stand Tyson next to Valuev , Klichskow , Lewis , Jack Johnson ...
and in his prime he could do that. Had he not had his outside problems,
Tyson's prime lasted FOUR YEARS .
had he not fallen in with Don King.......his reign would have lasted for years. In his prime he would have crushed everyone that held the belt since he first went to prison.
No way would he EVER have beaten Lewis . In fact the reason you never saw the Tyson/Foreman fight was because Don King KNEW that he would be Feeding the poor boy to George . There was NO way Tyson could beat Foreman and DK wasnt messing up his $ like that .
Six years in prison, nobody can resurrect a carreer after that.....not a serious one at least, and that's been shown by him.
Tysons Limitations were uncovered before he went away . In FACT him going away did more for him than anything else . They hid his Unraelling weaknesses from the public / casual observer like yourself and secured his "legacy" of Imagined greatness in the minds of those that dont realise that in his breif "era" he only had poor Evander whom ALSO wasnt worth much after those same four years . When REAL Competition abounded , neither was able to do squat .
Now you talk about Fedor and Liddell's long arms working for them......this is true. I haven't seen Liddell pushed yet.....but I've seen Fedor rocked now by Crocop and Hunt. Both superior punchers who don't loop their punches.......as they came right through fedors looping hooks. Fedor generates a tremendous amount of power with that approach, because he's basically spaghetti flinging his arms AND putting his whole torso behind it. If you look at him, he has to throw that way because his shoulders and traps and back muscles aren't developed like a pure punchers......and that's because he's trained in multiple forms.......which makes him a superior overall fighter, but it does leave him vulnerable to punches thrown right down broadway. Yeah he still beat crocop and hunt, but they hurt him. But you simply cannot say with seriousness that Tyson only "looked" like he punched better because of his reach?? That's just ridiculous......Fedor and Lidell could both punch like Tyson if they chose to......and probably still knock people out. But lidell especially won't do that because it opens him up to someones ground game.
The entire above section is too filtered by your religious faith in the MMA Ruleset to argue . I dont think MMA Rules mean Squat , so most of the above is invalid to me .
I still say in a pure punchers match, Tyson in his prime might still be the most powerful puncher in the history of any sport.
WOW you need to research the history of Boxing more . Liston hit EVERY bit as hard as Tyson , and guys like Jack Johnson would have blown him away . Tyson wasnt eve CLOSE to the top punchers in Power . Not top 5 even .
Now a CHIN the boy had in spades , Ill give you that ,but the rest ...
and had a closing slide that got in on anybody.
No , not really . not once he was figured out .
I might not know a whole lot about the "boxing" game.....but I know striking. I know when I see a technically superior striker. We've both seen the Douglas fight.....
Dude anyone that "knows Striking" should be a student of Boxing , Muay Thai , and San Shou Rulesets , Movements styles , strategies , their players , and their History MINIMUM , and I believe TKD and Karate ones as well .
Tyson was out of shape and had too much pussy on the mind. He lost his hunger.....you could see it before the fight even started.
Again , Past his Prime .
I still think Douglas had the right game plan even if tyson came in perfect.....so yeah I think he would have lasted more rounds than most. But Tyson dialed in would have eventually overcome douglas......and even not, a rematch would have gone to Tyson.....you saw how bad Douglas got after that fight.
No way in hell . Douglas was too big and too mobile for Tyson . Too much Ali .
And Tyson got even Worse than Douglas ! HE just had ppl that Douglas didnt there to Shore Him Up because they believed he could still be a Meal Ticket to them . Buster had no such support system . Mindset has MUCH to do with a Fighter , and his abilities .
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