The greatest fighter of all time!

[Djimbe]

c'mon, George with someone in full guard? If you don't find that visual funny you DON"T have a sense of humor

I guess i just dont see why its any funnier than Cabbage or Nog , or Hunt or Gardener with someone in Guard . Lots of good Grapplers are built like George .

Those guys you mention are NOT typical of heavyweight fighters. Yeah, tyson might have been on the low end......but at 215-220 he was diesel.

MOST of Mikes Opponents were SCRUBS at BEST . ANd "Deisel" at 220 ? Please . I was 220 at age 12 . HEd be one of the lightest guys on any Football squad , and NOT what ANYONE would call a "Big Man" walking around town anywhere .

An opinion I can't refute, nor can you prove.

A WIDELY HELD Opinion amongst MANY boxing experts . The Tyson/Foreman card was on the table for a LONG time and single handedly Derailed by King himself . Do some hunting around on Google .

Ok, we know he lost to Douglas......you ascertain that tyson at his best couldn't beat Douglas, I really disagree. But it's a mute point. What is fact is what he did to everyone before Douglas. He didn't need to change, he never was a "tactical" fighter. He overwhelmed with precision strikes that were too powerful.....everyone succumbed. He destroyed some really good fighters......even you have to admit that.

...

By whom? Douglas? Douglas just proved that no matter how bad you are.....you can't look past anybody in a fight.

Youre problem here is that youre not looking at the FIGHTS THEMSELVES , just the W/L records ! Douglas didnt beat mike on a Fluke , he got the win by studying the holes in his game that had been exposed in the fights that mike WON . Look at the tapes and you can see when mike was Flustered by Lateral movement LONG before Douglas came along , even if it wasnt quite enough to beat him on its own in that one instance . Buster and his squad put those things together , and eventually came up with a Comprehensive game plan that worked . and its not like he was in the bestr era of Boxing , exactly . After Evander whom , did he have ?

I'll give you that there have been some guys throughout the ages that compared to Tyson.......but dude, are you serious about not putting Tyson in the top 5 when everyone that studies boxing put's him at number 1?

Dude , NO ONE that seriously studies the fight game and its history puts Tyson @ number 1 .

THAT is kind of the point of my posts here .
And why I listed those Links earlier , so you could see that for yourself .

Yeah, there's some guys right there with him.......but man, you just really have something for the boy because you are not looking at this objectively. I'm not calling Tyson the greatest boxer ever.....I'm not qualified for that. But to call him one of the hardest if not THE hardest puncher in boxing history is simply using the senses that god gave me. I've seen clips of alot of boxers........seen guys get knocked out. I've NEVER seen the soul of a man punched out of his body like I saw what happened when mike hit someone. Not just once, but almost every one of his knockouts were like tossing a percussion grenade at someone.

Yes , Tyson was a KO artist . But he was one with a Relatively soft lead up to his Pro Career . Ive seen a LOT of KO's in my day , and Tysons array loo

And I'm not alone on this......I've seen alot of boxing analysts over the years make the same exact observation. Really not sure where you're coming from or if you even know who Tyson was at this point.

And a lot of so-called "Analysts" are naught more than rediculous Hype Men .


ANd Larry Merchant is a Drunk .

I've taken Muay Thai, boxing (but with MMA intentions)......different strategy than typical boxing. Took Karate early on and can say it's garbage......

dude , Your Karate class was garbage , perhaps ./ All Karate as a whole ? please .

tis why no one fights like that. Can't beleive you even mentioned it. When I look at a striker.....I look how he generates his power. That's why I'm impressed with crocop and hunt.....they don't have to spool up a punch for it to knock you silly. The best example of this is the punch crocop threw to break Bob Sapps eyesocket.........would you like a link?

Actually there are QUITE a few good MMA ppl with Karate BGs .

 

[redsamurai]

I guess i just dont see why its any funnier than Cabbage or Nog , or Hunt or Gardener with someone in Guard . Lots of good Grapplers are built like George .


alright, I guess I'm alone on this one

MOST of Mikes Opponents were SCRUBS at BEST . ANd "Deisel" at 220 ? Please . I was 220 at age 12 . HEd be one of the lightest guys on any Football squad , and NOT what ANYONE would call a "Big Man" walking around town anywhere .

dude, I understand you're close to 400 pounds....I saw the video of you, you are a very big boy......but this is the fight game, and 220 ripped at 5'11 is a solid motherfucker by anyone's standard. Were you "ripped" like mike when you were 12? No offense bro, but you ain't ripped now. If you got into mike's shape you'd be closer to 300 pounds. The only monster running around right now that looks to be in decent shape is sapp.....he sports a six pack at 360. Point is, in the fight game......pure size doesn't make the fighter. If valuev was so dominant.....why did he go 12 rounds with Ruiz? who got beat by Roy Jones....



e .

...Youre problem here is that youre not looking at the FIGHTS THEMSELVES , just the W/L records ! Douglas didnt beat mike on a Fluke , he got the win by studying the holes in his game that had been exposed in the fights that mike WON . Look at the tapes and you can see when mike was Flustered by Lateral movement LONG before Douglas came along , even if it wasnt quite enough to beat him on its own in that one instance . Buster and his squad put those things together , and eventually came up with a Comprehensive game plan that worked . and its not like he was in the bestr era of Boxing , exactly . After Evander whom , did he have ?

I know Douglas's fight was not a fluke.....I'm just saying that Tyson was no where near his best......he looked like he had a late night when he walked to the ring. He got lazy......I'm not defending that, it's his fault for loosing his drive and work ethic......a product of being in DK's clutches. I just think that Tyson in his prime would have physically overcome Douglas "easy". Had Douglas been able to put mike away in a few rounds, I'd say ok......but he danced around an out of shape opponent for 8 or 9 rounds. All Tyson did in that fight was throw one punch combo's.....that's not the Tyson of early. So I give credit to Douglas for that gameplan.......and "maybe" he still would have been able to beat Tyson. I just don't think Douglas would have been able to stay in there with a Tyson that was primed to go the full distance and still put out max performance every round.

Dude , NO ONE that seriously studies the fight game and its history puts Tyson @ number 1 .

ok, link me to some knockout clips of guys you think punched harder than Tyson......maybe I'm wrong, but I have to see it to beleive it. Alot of boxing analysts hate Tyson and blame him for the demise of the HW division and boxing in general, for turning all of his fights into circus acts. So show me where someone gets his family tree knocked right the fuck out of that tree. I've seen Tyson hit a man to the body.....not a knockout, but a second later that guy crumbled because he wanted NO MORE of Tyson's power. People just lost their hearts when they fought Tyson.....and that I don't need an analyst to tell me because I can see it with my own eyes.








dude , Your Karate class was garbage , perhaps ./ All Karate as a whole ? please .


Karate is watered down for the american market



Actually there are QUITE a few good MMA ppl with Karate BGs


I'm sure they took a few karate courses when they were 12......but do you see any traditional karate in MMA fights? Muay Thai? absolutely......but not Karate. Even some of the japanese fighters that wear the gui's still punch and kick like kick boxers.....they only use that thing for ground work.

 

[Anthony Starks]

then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long .

The fact is that Ali , WIDELY considered "The Greatest" now was considered the underdog to Foreman , whom was every bit as dominant .

Link me to just ONE that has a top boxer list and puts Foreman at #1. Just one.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Link me to just ONE that has a top boxer list and puts Foreman at #1. Just one.

He didn't say that. He said at the time of the fight, Ali was the underdog. Ali ducked Foreman for the rest of his career. Many list guys will put Foreman at the #3 heavyweight spot behind Louis and Ali. Some will list Foreman behind Holmes also.

 

[Anthony Starks]

He didn't say that. He said at the time of the fight, Ali was the underdog. Ali ducked Foreman for the rest of his career. Many list guys will put Foreman at the #3 heavyweight spot behind Louis and Ali. Some will list Foreman behind Holmes also.

He is trying to make a case for Foreman as the #1 fighter all time, I contended he is not even the best boxer of all time, and then he said "then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long". Might want to read back a few posts...

 

[Djimbe]

He is trying to make a case for Foreman as the #1 fighter all time,

No , in fact I wasnt .

I was actually saying that Tyson wasnt even at Foreman's level much less Ali's , Liston's , or Louis' .

I contended he is not even the best boxer of all time, and then he said "then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long". Might want to read back a few posts...

Read the above post , Ali was considered the underdog to Foreman , who was , AT THE TIME , rated #1 over him AND Louis .

RECENTLY youre correct , but at the time , he WAS considered # 1 , thus my statement that you havent read a lot of Back Issues comes into play . I dont even AGREE with the #1 Ranking , and most ppl - even ones that said it at the time - have chganged their tunes since , but the fact is that there WAS a time when foreman WAS considered # 1 by many in hte sport .

 

[Djimbe]

He is trying to make a case for Foreman as the #1 fighter all time,

No , in fact I wasnt .

I was actually saying that Tyson wasnt even at Foreman's level much less Ali's , Liston's , or Louis' .

I contended he is not even the best boxer of all time, and then he said "then you havnt read a lot of Boxing publications for long". Might want to read back a few posts...

Read the above post , Ali was considered the underdog to Foreman , who was , AT THE TIME , rated #1 over him AND Louis .

RECENTLY youre correct , but at the time , he WAS considered # 1 , thus my statement that you havent read a lot of Back Issues comes into play . I dont even AGREE with the #1 Ranking , and most ppl - even ones that said it at the time - have chganged their tunes since , but the fact is that there WAS a time when foreman WAS considered # 1 by many in the sport .

 

[palehorse51]

I cant frickin believe that many people think Bruce Lee was the best fighter ever! WTF? HE WAS AN ACTOR! No professional fights! However Jeet Kune Do is awesome! Bruce was one of the first to crosstrain in different arts.

Rickson Gracie has the best technique of any fighter. EVERY opponent he ever faced professionally was much bigger and much stronger than him yet he is undefeated. The Gracies changed fighting FOREVER. Everyone knows their game now.Rickson also got down MANY times on the tuff streets of Rio De Janiero were he built his legend as a savage street fighter. Not to mention the bloody Vale Tudo fights where knife fights would be going on in the crowd!! I have had the honor of training with Rickson.You can feel his savage energy when he walks into the room. Yet he is so humble. A true master in every sense of the word. His son Kron is one to watch out for!!! He armbarred me in 20 seconds, and I outweigh him by 70 pounds.

I loved watching Bas Rutten fight! He will always be a favorite! Well rounded. Great striker.

Vanderlei Silva is very well rounded. Very dangerous. When I watched him destroy Rampage Jackson I knew he was the real deal.

Its damn hard if not impossible to say who is the best of all time. Fighters of today, like all athletes of today learn from the techniques and teachings of those that came before them. The knowledge of training methods, nutrition, science all grow and compound over time. Each era must stand separate from the others.

 

[Djimbe]

However Jeet Kune Do is awesome! Bruce was one of the first to crosstrain in different arts.

Actually JKD pretty much Reeks the way bruce trained it , in fact NO ONE has EVER won any kind of serious High level Fighting Championship using JKD . Not even like , K1 or anything restricted to standup even .

ANd Crosstraining is pretty much Chinese Tradition . Praying Mantis has Monkey footwork in it . Hun Gar is the combination of Tiger and Crane styles . The guy that invented Baguazhang would ONLY teach masters of other systems so that EVERY one of his students was a unique hybrid unto themselves . Wing Chun is a sytem that is a TOTAL hybrid , and its Bruce Lees ONLY system of serious study , so maybey thats where he ripped the Idea off from .

 

[Djimbe]

dude, I understand you're close to 400 pounds....I saw the video of you, you are a very big boy......but this is the fight game, and 220 ripped at 5'11 is a solid motherfucker by anyone's standard.

Not by Mine , I guess .

Were you "ripped" like mike when you were 12?

Yes . Its not hard to get that look at 12 . I was still going through Puberty .

No offense bro, but you ain't ripped now.

You have absoloutley no Idea what the hell kind of shape IM in now . Especially because you saw an 88 second video of me over four years ago when I was suffering from a chronic Illness . Stop making presumptions .

If you got into mike's shape you'd be closer to 300 pounds.

Wrong .

Whren im in that kins of shae my weight goes UP , not down . My chest expands , my arms get bigger and my bf% drops . Muscle weighs more than fat .

FYI : Im about 400-410 on any given day now , and im in much better condition than when you saw me in that video - when im in TOP shape I float around at 425-445 . I dont keep myself that "Ripped" (as you like to put it) because all its good for is being a Poser and its bloody expensive when youre built like this . No one is paying for me to do all that extra Sprinting and for that extra $400/mo in suppliments , so what's the POINT ?

The only monster running around right now that looks to be in decent shape is sapp.....he sports a six pack at 360.

Actually Sapp is a decent example , hes built like a slightly smaller version of me . but with shorter proportionate Arms , I think ...

Point is, in the fight game......pure size doesn't make the fighter. If valuev was so dominant.....why did he go 12 rounds with Ruiz? who got beat by Roy Jones....

I never said it did , but you were going on and on about power .

And the Fight game can be Rock Paper Scissors . Just because a fighter can beat someone it dosent mean they can beat everyone that THEY can beat .

e .

?

I know Douglas's fight was not a fluke.....I'm just saying that Tyson was no where near his best......he looked like he had a late night when he walked to the ring. He got lazy......I'm not defending that, it's his fault for loosing his drive and work ethic......a product of being in DK's clutches. I just think that Tyson in his prime would have physically overcome Douglas "easy". Had Douglas been able to put mike away in a few rounds, I'd say ok......but he danced around an out of shape opponent for 8 or 9 rounds. All Tyson did in that fight was throw one punch combo's.....that's not the Tyson of early. So I give credit to Douglas for that gameplan.......and "maybe" he still would have been able to beat Tyson. I just don't think Douglas would have been able to stay in there with a Tyson that was primed to go the full distance and still put out max performance every round.

There was NOTHING wrong with Tyson's BODY . His trainers were bragging about how he could go longer than ever before , he had more stamina in the gym than ever , blahblahblahblah ... the fact is his MIND was gone , and THATS what you were seeing . Throwing one Punch Combops isnt a physical thing , its a lack of CONCENTRATING ON YOUR GAME , not Fatigue ! THe guy was always a Putz , but that time he was a Putz without a Handler , and it showed . His Body was same as it ever was , he just happened to lose his surrogate MIND .

ok, link me to some knockout clips of guys you think punched harder than Tyson......maybe I'm wrong, but I have to see it to beleive it.

I can give you names , look @ espn classic or something . sorry if I dont have some personal Online Resivoir of fights for you to look at though .

Alot of boxing analysts hate Tyson and blame him for the demise of the HW division and boxing in general, for turning all of his fights into circus acts.

Dude , thats because they set Tyson up with Cans .

So show me where someone gets his family tree knocked right the fuck out of that tree. I've seen Tyson hit a man to the body.....not a knockout, but a second later that guy crumbled because he wanted NO MORE of Tyson's power. People just lost their hearts when they fought Tyson.....and that I don't need an analyst to tell me because I can see it with my own eyes.

Please go watch Baer's fights , or Corbetts , or Jack Johnson's . Try looking at Dempsey or forman if you want to see ppl driven down by power .

I'm sure they took a few karate courses when they were 12......but do you see any traditional karate in MMA fights? Muay Thai? absolutely......but not Karate. Even some of the japanese fighters that wear the gui's still punch and kick like kick boxers.....they only use that thing for ground work.

Guess what ? You dont see Traditional Muay Thai in the MMA ring either .
You cant call it "Muay Thai" because you see a Rounhouse kick , you have Roundhouses , Knees and Elbows in Taekwondo , as well . May as well call what you see in MMA rings TKD or Shotokahn for that matter . The DAY I see Crocodile whips its Tail or Monkey Steals Coconut working in a Championship UFC fight THEN you can call it Muay Thai . A knee or an elbow is EVERY bit as much a Tai Chi technique as it is a MT one .