Suggestions for Workout Please

[2Shy]

Hi! My workout buddy and I are both in our early 40s and weighing in at around 225 lbs. We're working on the diet aspect (natch) and have been working out for about six months. First just cardio, then on to the Cybex machines and have been hitting the free weights for a couple months now. I want to move us into almost all free weights. My buddy is scared of "too much weight" and "getting big." I've done the reading and know better, but have to nurse her along some. I really like the weights. Obviously, our obesity is of primary concern, but like I said, we're working on that.

We'd like to increase strength, but not really mass. Because of RL constraints, she can only work out M-Th. Right now, we do cardio every day, upper body on M & W and Legs on T and Th.

This is what we're doing (she lifts about 30 lbs. less on legs and 15# less on arms on average than me).

Upper Body (all are 3x10)

Pec Deck at 30# (just started doing cable crossovers at 40# instead)
Lat Pull-Downs at 60#
Lat Raises on the Cybex at 35#
Bicep curls with EZ bar at 35# (just started using 20# dumbbells instead)
Tricep kickbacks at 20#
Torso Rotations at 70# each way
Back Extensions (not weighted)

*note, I did my first bench and decline bench presses Saturday at 60# this Saturday and loved it!* My buddy doesn't know it yet, but we'll be doing those from now on!

Lower Body (all at 3x10)

Hack squats @ 70# (just started these)
Leg Press @ 200#
Leg curls @ 60#
Hip abductor @ 100#
Hip adductor @ 100#
Some sort of abs

I tried adding in lunges, but have experienced sharp pain (not, oh, this muscle is worked but !@#$%!! I think I pulled something pain) in my upper quads. I think maybe the squat with the leg press is too much and have thought of exchanging the press for the lunge for now if possible.

Suggestions? Thanks!

~2 Shy

 

[makedah]

Welcome - you're in the right place. I've gotten lots of help here.

www.stumptuous.com/weights.html -- A fantastic site for women who lift. STUDY IT. There are several routines in the "Workouts" section.

If you're trying to get stronger, you should have more compound moves in there (moves that work several muscles at once). Moves like bench press and squats. Definitely use free weights on everything you can. (The only machines I use are the lat pulldown and cables.)

If you find that the hack squat and the leg press are too much together it is probably because they both focus on quadriceps. Personally, I would get rid of the hip machine stuff and the hack squats and instead -- SQUAT. Leg press and leg curl (I assume you mean a hamstring curl) could give you extra quad and ham work if you want it. But if you want to get stronger, the squat will definitely take you there.

 

[Gladiola]

I want to move us into almost all free weights. My buddy is scared of "too much weight" and "getting big."

That's great that you've got the right idea with free weights being superior to machines & "getting big" is crap. Hopefully as time goes by, you'll continue to win your friend over.

Some suggestions on moves:
cable crossovers
-Try dumbell presses & flies, on incline, decline, & flat bench. Always keep mixing things up a bit.

Lat Raises on the Cybex
-Definitely do DB side raises.

Tricep kickbacks at 20#
-Personally one of my least fav tricep exercises. Try also close grip bench, assisted dips, bench dips, skull crushers & other extention mvoes.

Torso Rotations at 70# each way
-eh, never been a fan. if you're trying to work you're obliques, you need some flexion of the spine in addition to rotation (regular crunches on a slight angle). If you're trying to hit the transverse abdominus - just tighten up doing other things & you've got it. If you're aiming for rectus abdominus, there are much better ways.

Hack squats @ 70# (just started these)
Leg Press @ 200#
Leg curls @ 60#
Hip abductor @ 100#
Hip adductor @ 100#

Forget the leg extentions. I would also bother with the abductor & adductor only occasionlly & when you do, a velcro cuff from the cable around your ankle is better than sitting in the machine. Squat, squat squat! split squat, front squat, walking lunge, deadlift, just stay away from the machines (particularlly the extention).

OOPS! Just reread your post - if you're having pain, be careful, take it easy. If extention from the hip causes pain, it should be a problem regardless of exercise (hack squat, free squat, lunge).

Hope that helped somewhat.

 

[Temple]

First of all let me say WELCOME.
I will be 40 this month and started out just a tad lighter than you are but I am fairly short. You are ABSOLUTELY on the right track. Gladiolas suggestions are also right on IMO. Just a couple of things. At your weight and age it will be easy to injure your joints or at least that was my experience and now I am dealing with some things that could have been avoided had I been smarter. Walking is the best form of cardio for you and is all that you will need. Don't let anyone talk you into running or jogging and certainly not until your weight is WAY down - your knees will thank you later. Also be careful with the lunges at your present weight. If it feels like a bad kind of pain it probably is.
Try to keep your focus on getting stronger - always strive for pushing more weight. You will be surprised at how strong you really are.
Stick around - this place has the best information and support that you can get.

 

[JJFigure]

Nice to have you on the boards - thanks again for the Nu Salt hint. Gladiola is the woman! She's given you great suggestions. And I'll ditto on the free weights - IMO you'll get so much more out of them than machine use.

Another benefit of the squat is it strengthens your core muscles - abdominals and lower back - as well as your legs. Plus, the medical community is finally publishing the only way to maintain/increase hip bone density is through weight bearing exercise such as the squat and deadlift. Every woman should include squats in their routine, for this factor alone. Breaking a hip bone would really suck!

 

[makedah]

Another benefit of the squat is it strengthens your core muscles - abdominals and lower back - as well as your legs.

TELL ME ABOUT IT! It took my torso a while to catch up to what my legs could do in terms of holding that bar up.

 

[2Shy]

Thanks!

First, thanks to everyone for making me feel welcome. I really appreciate that plus all the great advice.

From everything I've read, I know that compound exercises are the way to go, and we had absolutely none in our old program! I really, really, really want to squat! The hack squat has worked me so much more than the leg press. Ditto for the bench press.

I'm nervous about squatting because of the options available to me. Our gym has a Smith Machine (ducks while everyone yells). I watched someone squat in it today, and they just seemed off-kilter to me (i.e., not a natural position). I'm not sure if my workout buddy is capable of spotting me in a true squat since she is so much weaker than I am. How strong does your spotter need to be?

I don't think I'll have leg problems with it. I've never had pain with the hack squats or the leg press--only the lunge.

When I experimented with the lunge at home, I didn't have the pain unless I went very low. I also tried reverse lunges (is that the right term?) where you step back instead of forward. That was much better, so I wonder if I was extending my forward knee past my foot when I had problems. I'm quite chesty (40GG) so I can't always see my feet!

I'm not sure what to use for a compound on the shoulders. I screwed up my rotator cuff about 5 months ago, and it's just now starting to feel okay. (Ladies, a popping noise when you do an overhead press is not a good thing!)

Definitely will be changing the triceps since I don't like the kickbacks at all.

We both like the hip machines, but not because of the workout. I dubbed them the "Mulder Machines" when I was trying to get my buddy to add more weight on them. She thinks the guy from X-Files is hot, so I told her to imagine she was getting ready for Mulder. Anyway, silly reason, but if you can't have fun sometimes, what's the point?

I'm not sure what type of split to do since she can only be there four consecutive days. It'd be easy if we could do MWF, but work and RL commitments keep her from working out on Friday or the weekends. Should we just keep up with the upper/lower split?

I can manage to be there any day that I need to, but we started out together and have really encouraged each other to stick with it. That's why I'm trying to figure out something that will work with her weird schedule.

I have soooo many questions! I have seen the Stumptuous site and read (I think) just about everything there. In fact, I printed out a ton of information for my buddy to try and help her see that she will not bulk up unless she wants to and works on it for a very, very long time.

Thanks again!

~2 Shy

 

[Gladiola]

Re: Thanks!

"I'm not sure if my workout buddy is capable of spotting me in a true squat"

I wouldn't worry about that at all. You should be starting out very light anyway - so it's not even much work for your legs - as you're learning form. when you begin to use a weight that's somewhat work, you'll know. You'll just know for the most part. You won't go down as far if you think you won't make it back up. When/if you do really want to challenge yourself, you can just ask someone nearby who's skilled & strong to help you out.

"When I experimented with the lunge at home, I didn't have the pain unless I went very low. "
How's your flexibility? Make sure you stretch, could be some tightness in the hip flexors. When you do a standing quad stretch, be sure to tuck your hips up towards your rib cage, keeping your pelvis neutral (instead of letting your hips tilt back as you hold your foot back).

"That was much better, so I wonder if I was extending my forward knee past my foot when I had problems."
That probably wouldn't cause upper quad pain - that would be too much flexion at the knee, which might bother the knee.

"I'm not sure what to use for a compound on the shoulders. I screwed up my rotator cuff about 5 months ago, and it's just now starting to feel okay."
Just go easy on it. Keep the reps in the higher range for rot cuff exercises b/c you need to train it for muscular endurance (as opposed to strength) to help it regain stability as it heals. Maybe 2 sets of 15.

"but if you can't have fun sometimes, what's the point?"
Absolutely, that's cool!

"I'm not sure what type of split to do since she can only be there four consecutive days."
4 days is fine, that's what I did with my partner for a long while. We did:
Mon: Legs
Tue: back & rear delt
Wed: off
Thur: chest & shoulders
Fri: Bis & tris
Abs were random. I did cardio on Sundays & other rare occasions. I teach a yoga-based class on Tuesdays in the AM. You could do more leg work + core work (abs & low back) on day 4 & lump bis in with back & tris with chest.

"we started out together and have really encouraged each other to stick with it."
That's great!!! Stick with that... having a partner is awesome. The mess that lifting has become for me AND losing several of my workout partners simultaneously (working late, moving out of state, & having night classes) has been devastating. Partners are wonderful.

"I have soooo many questions!"
I love answering questions!!! I'm not lifting, so it passes the time, plus I love it.

"to try and help her see that she will not bulk up unless she wants to and works on it for a very, very long time."
Another great article to prove that is here:
http://www.ideafit.com/ftwomen.htm
I think it's amazing that this doc has NEVER had a lady complain about bulking up!

Keep us posted... we love Q's & hearing of success!

 

[2Shy]

What I came up with

Okay, this is what I have so far. Remember that due to real life, we can only work out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Friday and the weekend are out for my W/O buddy, even though not for me. If you think I should go more often, let me know.

Monday ~ Back & Biceps
Deadlift 3 x 15
Lat Pull-Down 3 x 15
Cable Row 3 x 15
Back Extension 3 x 15
Biceps Curl (bar) 3 x 15
Hammer Curl 3 x 15
Abs (crunches) 4 x 20

Tuesday ~ Off

Wednesday ~ Chest/Shoulders*/Tris
Bench Press 3 x 15
Incline Bench Press 3 x 15
Cable Crossovers 3 x 15
Triceps Pushdowns 3 x 15
Military Press* 3 x 10
Shrugs 3 x 15

*I have to be careful with the shoulder stuff due to rotator cuff problems. Just added the press back in, and I can tell!

Thursday ~ Legs
Squats 3 x 15
Lunges 3 x 10-15
Seated Leg Press 3 x 15 OR Butt Blaster 3 x 15
Prone Leg Curl 3 x 15
Calves 3 x 15 (I do these on the leg press machine or calf machine)
Hip Adduction/Abduction machines just cuz we like 'em! 3 x 15
Abs ~ Reverse Crunches 4 x 20

Fri, Sat & Sun are off days.

Gladiola, thanks for the tip. I started stretching my quads after the squats, and that seems to have taken care of the pain I was experiencing with the lunges. Tucking my hips in on the stretch made all the difference in the world.

I hope to add maybe 5 pounds a week.

We also do 30-45 minutes of cardio after each workout.

 

[Temple]

I would go heavier and stay in the 6-8 rep range for 3-4 sets. Once you have the form down if you can get 8 reps you probably need to up the weight.