starvation mode, ketosis, gluconeogenesis

[sirbadass]

OK, maybe some strange questions...

I have read that "starvation mode" means your body is storing fat and burning muscle. Is this different from gluconeogenesis?

How do you know when you're in starvation mode? Is it that painful, hungry feeling you get when you're really hungry? Or is it undetectable?

I have noticed sometimes, in the past, that if I skip a meal and go through this painful hungry feeling, then I kick into some kind of high-energy mode. What is that? Ketosis? How do you know when you're in ketosis (besides ketostix)?

I am trying to lean out currently, and I am on a strict calorie deficit. How much of a deficit do you need to be in to go into starvation mode? How can you avoid this if your last meal is let's say at 6:00 pm and you don't eat again until 9:00 the next day (after some AM cardio)?

Thanks.

 

[pintoca]

OK, maybe some strange questions...

I have read that "starvation mode" means your body is storing fat and burning muscle. Is this different from gluconeogenesis?

How do you know when you're in starvation mode? Is it that painful, hungry feeling you get when you're really hungry? Or is it undetectable?

I have noticed sometimes, in the past, that if I skip a meal and go through this painful hungry feeling, then I kick into some kind of high-energy mode. What is that? Ketosis? How do you know when you're in ketosis (besides ketostix)?

I am trying to lean out currently, and I am on a strict calorie deficit. How much of a deficit do you need to be in to go into starvation mode? How can you avoid this if your last meal is let's say at 6:00 pm and you don't eat again until 9:00 the next day (after some AM cardio)?

Thanks.

I will try to make this fast, since those are some SERIOUS basic questions (try the search button):

1. Starvation Mode: What will happen if you don't eat enough calories everyday. How many are enough? At least some 200 cals above your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate). Does it hurt?? nope, the only way to know you are in Starvation Mode is that the fat will NOT come off no matter how much cardio you do... Basically your body tries to keep everything you eat.

2. Gluconeogenesis: This is a clever trick your body has, it creates Sugar on its own, to do this it breaks down Protein (readily available at your muscles). Starvation Mode can trigger this also.

3. What you feel might be a rush after your body breaks down some protein and turns it into glucose... this is my best idea... do you feel a down, short after?

4. Ketosis is the state in which you burn mainly fat for fuel, ketones are by-products bodies of the incomplete metabolism of fat... basically a sure-tell indicator your body has been forced to use fat for fuel (your body loves to run on carbs, no on fat). Besides the stix, some people report they can tell when they are in ketosis by the color/smell of their urine and by their breath... (yuck). Anyway, to be in ketosis is no easy and you will not be there by accident: You need to eat a shitload of fat, almost no carbs and it will take about 3 days of doing this...

5. My advice to you, research: by being on a strict calorie deficit, your eating away whatever muscle you have. Your nody is too clever for that. Starving yourself is not the way to be lean.

Pintoca

 

[sirbadass]

Thanks for the reply, Pintoca. I guess I didn't make my questions clear enough. I'm familiar enough with dieting to know the definitions of ketosis and neoglucogensis. And when I wrote "calorie deficit" I meant 15% to 30% reduction in my Total Daily Enery Expenditure (TDEE), not my BMR (I would never do that) -- my bad. I think you posted before that this is a reasonable deficit when leaning out, right?

I guess what I really want to know is, is it possible to go into starvation mode in intervals throughout a day? For example, if I eat my last meal at 6pm and don't eat again until 9AM (after AM cardio), is it possible to go into starvation mode during the night or early AM? I felt really hungry this morning before cardio. I spread my meals out every three hours which gives me a total of 6 meals per day (if you include the PWO shake as a meal). The first one is at 9AM and the last one is a usually a small meal at 9PM.

 

[pintoca]

Thanks for the reply, Pintoca. I guess I didn't make my questions clear enough. I'm familiar enough with dieting to know the definitions of ketosis and neoglucogensis. And when I wrote "calorie deficit" I meant 15% to 30% reduction in my Total Daily Enery Expenditure (TDEE), not my BMR (I would never do that) -- my bad. I think you posted before that this is a reasonable deficit when leaning out, right?

I guess what I really want to know is, is it possible to go into starvation mode in intervals throughout a day? For example, if I eat my last meal at 6pm and don't eat again until 9AM (after AM cardio), is it possible to go into starvation mode during the night or early AM? I felt really hungry this morning before cardio. I spread my meals out every three hours which gives me a total of 6 meals per day (if you include the PWO shake as a meal). The first one is at 9AM and the last one is a usually a small meal at 9PM.

OK, short answer no: It will take about 3 days to go into starvation mode (reason why most people cycle low days with high days every 3 days).

During the night your body is in a serious fast. Some Hardcore people will wake up in the middle of the night to eat something: I find this excesive. What I find a more civilized solution is to eat a slow digesting protein right before you go to bed: Casein... (milk protein) try eating cottage cheese late in the night.

Finally, yep, 20 - 30% below TDEE is somewhat an aggresive reduction (20% is OK, 30% is aggresive). My recommendation is to start at 20% and increase while monitoring your LBM losses. Some people might not do well with a 30% reduction (too much LBM lost).

Pintoca

 

[sirbadass]

OK, short answer no: It will take about 3 days to go into starvation mode (reason why most people cycle low days with high days every 3 days).

I don't get this statement. Are you saying that on a 30% below TDEE diet it will take 3 days to go into starvation mode? Therefore it is necessary to include a high-carb day every 3 days? I actually do this, but I put my high-carb days on the same days I do squats and deads (tue and fri respectively) so what do you think about this?

-or-

Are you saying that it'll take 3 days to go into starvation mode if you don't eat anything?

What if I just ran a 15% below TDEE diet everyday without variation? How long will it take to go into starvation mode then?

Really though, how can you say you will go into starvation mode at all if your intake is at least above your BMR?

During the night your body is in a serious fast. Some Hardcore people will wake up in the middle of the night to eat something: I find this excesive. What I find a more civilized solution is to eat a slow digesting protein right before you go to bed: Casein... (milk protein) try eating cottage cheese late in the night.

OK, but during the night you're sleeping and therefore not really burning many Calories.. so during this time you only need as many Calories as your BMR, right?

Finally, yep, 20 - 30% below TDEE is somewhat an aggresive reduction (20% is OK, 30% is aggresive). My recommendation is to start at 20% and increase while monitoring your LBM losses. Some people might not do well with a 30% reduction (too much LBM lost).

Another question: if people like to do slow cardio in the AM (when they they have no dietary fuel in their system) because there is supposedly a higher fat:muscle burn ratio, why then couldn't someone just not eat at all and lay motionless and burn fat that way? Why doesn't the body burn fat (which is more readily available than resorting to gluconeogenesis) when deprived of Calories for long periods of time? (just a rhetorical question and maybe a stupid one).

Thanks.